[Elemental] Optimal Gear & Item Discussion - Page 21

tufy · 02/03/10, 6:16 AM

There is no whining, Alliada. This thread was created with the intent of finding optimal gear and a simple cold fact is that the optimal weapon for us is a mace with wasted stats (or before Lich King, dagger with wasted stats). Since Quel'Delar had the exact same mace and had to be fixed later on, it is logical to assume that the stats must be intentional - simply because doing the same mistake twice back to back is highly improbable, especially since there ARE perfectly optimized weapons in ICC that just so happen to be swords. Now the question is whether this is it or the weapon will be optimized in the future. Personally, I find the latter unlikely, as we have had a similar situation before.

In other words, at this point, BiS gear includes Royal Scepter of Terenas II (spellpower, crit, mp5). This means that our projected bis gear stays as it was, the only modification being the weapon.

Skajin · 02/03/10, 6:41 AM

I already opened a thread on the european damage dealers section.. There is also one on the US forums, though it's not exactly well articulated.

It just seems incredibly "dumb" to keep making swords instead of daggers that everyone can use. A 9 item loot table def has room for one more weapon though, so hopefully they'll follow that suggestion.

orion121 · 02/03/10, 12:03 PM

For those of us with the means let's not forget [Wrathful Gladiator's Blade of Celerity] as it is only a few DEP behind the heroic LK mace.

fakestreet · 02/03/10, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Zamir

Not because I don't trust you, but simply because I've previously read the opposite - do you perhaps have some data to support that?

If this is the case, then Reign (heroic) would drop below Phylactery (normal) at higher gear levels (though remembering of course that we still don't know the ICD of Phylactery's proc). Both Reigns would still be above heroic Spyglass. If the heroic and normal versions cannot be equipped together as was indicated on the PTR, then the BiS list would be unchanged. If not, a normal Phylactery would be better than a heroic Reign (though interestingly enough, movement seems to favour Reign over Phylactery).

Edit: and yes, you're right, I wasn't multiplying DLO's proc by the DEP for spellpower. That puts it above Spyglass but below Phylacteries and heroic Reign. Sigh.

A quick search on "Phylactery" in this thread returns this as the closest thing in my mind.

So, since the trinket is actually in game now, can anyone confirm that Phylactery does, in fact, use the normal proc trinket icd?

Sayam · 02/03/10, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by fakestreet

A quick search on "Phylactery" in this thread returns this as the closest thing in my mind.

So, since the trinket is actually in game now, can anyone confirm that Phylactery does, in fact, use the normal proc trinket icd?

While I can not confirm it myself, there have been a pair of people on shadowpriest.com that have confirmed the proc to have a ninety second internal cooldown.

fakestreet · 02/03/10, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sayam

While I can not confirm it myself, there have been a pair of people on shadowpriest.com that have confirmed the proc to have a ninety second internal cooldown.

If 90s ICD is correct, that should put Phylactery well below either DFOs.

edit: shadowpriest.com • View topic - Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
discussion on Phylactery.

Kissmyaxe · 02/04/10, 6:42 AM

Using ZAP, modified with the ICD of Phylactery to 100 secs (90 ICD, 10 to get the proc), the BiS trinkets are still DFO (Heroic) and PotNL (Heroic) just the order is reversed.

At 264 ilevel though, the Spyglass (Heroic) and Rotd (Heroic) beat PotNL (Normal).

Using my current stats, the trinkets are ranked like this

Dislodged Foreign Object (Heroic)
Dislodged Foreign Object (Normal)
Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (Heroic)
Muradin's Spyglass (Heroic)
Reign of the Dead/Unliving (Heroic)
Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (Normal)
Muradin's Spyglass (Normal)
Reign of the Dead/Unliving (Normal)

so the Spyglass (Heroic) looks pretty attractive, especially considering the competition you get.

baconlover · 02/04/10, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kissmyaxe

Using ZAP, modified with the ICD of Phylactery to 100 secs (90 ICD, 10 to get the proc), the BiS trinkets are still DFO (Heroic) and PotNL (Heroic) just the order is reversed.

At 264 ilevel though, the Spyglass (Heroic) and Rotd (Heroic) beat PotNL (Normal).

Using my current stats, the trinkets are ranked like this

Dislodged Foreign Object (Heroic)
Dislodged Foreign Object (Normal)
Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (Heroic)
Muradin's Spyglass (Heroic)
Reign of the Dead/Unliving (Heroic)
Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (Normal)
Muradin's Spyglass (Normal)
Reign of the Dead/Unliving (Normal)

so the Spyglass (Heroic) looks pretty attractive, especially considering the competition you get.

1 It would be nice to see the values for each trinket here.
2 Are the values for DFO for above or below the soft haste cap? Seems like it could make a big difference.

Mmootimus · 02/04/10, 10:10 PM

Nibelung is getting buffed again.

We are currently in the process of applying two hotfix improvements to the Nibelung staff. The first change is that we are improving the chance for a val’kyr to proc from 1% to 2%. While this may not seem like a significant improvement, it will be notable and result in the val'kyr appearing more often.

The second change is that anytime a summoned val’kyr casts her smite spell, she will heal herself for 25% of the damage done. This will help keep them alive when AoE damage is happening but not make them invincible as we still want them to feel like a summoned creature and not a special form of a DoT spell that has awesome art.

We understand the frustrations players have had with this weapon so far. We currently plan to make more proc weapons in the future and are committed to making this and other proc weapons fun and competitive items.

I still can't see it making a BiS list. Although the heal addition is nice, I don't see it solving the problem of the Valkyr just getting one-shot or due to their lack of movement just standing in fire/void zone/whatever.

Secondly, even despite our less than ideal weapon choice, the loss of stats compared to Bulwark and Sceptre is severe. Making some assumptions about heroic item socket bonuses, I came up with the following (normal versions in brackets):

Sp: -119 (-93)
Haste: -70 (-60)
Crit: -123 (-123)
Int: -69 (-58)

This is in addition to less Sta, MP/5 and of course Armor.

I picked up Nibelung recently, and this buff may persuade me to at least stick with it over the ToC25 N dagger and shield which are currently my other option. In the right situations the 2% procc chance could give some very nice DPS, but it seems like no more than a stand in weapon overall.

Flau · 02/05/10, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mmootimus

Nibelung is getting buffed

I picked up Nibelung recently, and this buff may persuade me to at least stick with it over the ToC25 N dagger and shield which are currently my other option. In the right situations the 2% procc chance could give some very nice DPS, but it seems like no more than a stand in weapon overall.

Need some more theoriecrafting about this staff...
Now that it seems that there are no alternative waepons for us I thought of picking the heroversion of this staff as BiS choice..

But I'm not quiet sure if it proccs form:

searing totem attacks
Fire elemental attacks
pillar of flames
lightningoverloads
Flameshock dot

Any shaman that can do some testings for me?

Skajin · 02/05/10, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Flau

Need some more theoriecrafting about this staff...
Now that it seems that there are no alternative waepons for us I thought of picking the heroversion of this staff as BiS choice..

But I'm not quiet sure if it proccs form:

searing totem attacks
Fire elemental attacks
pillar of flames
lightningoverloads
Flameshock dot

Any shaman that can do some testings for me?

"Regarding the proc chance, the recent change made it so other items/procs can no longer cause other items to procs, only spells a player knows. This is why we increased the proc chance for this item from from 1% to 2% but that is still a buff overall." - blue post from Bornakk today.

Trivial · 02/07/10, 7:47 PM

So I failed to read about the Phylactery ICD, and got it from our Sindragosa kill. However, I did notice ingame that the ICD was quite low, so I went here and read that.

However, I thought of something: What if we can use EM everytime the trinket is up? It could actually be a big upgrade. I'm afraid I'm not very good at maths, but I did test on a dummy how much time would EM reset using t10 2 pieces just by spamming LB (with WoA, without Swift Retribution), and it was about 75 seconds with my gear.

Now, assuming you do EM as soon as you the trinket procs, and considering about 100 seconds to proc again, do you think it is worth it to wait about 25 seconds to use EM again with the trinket up (seems rather bad idea), or the trinket is just not that good at all?

Kissmyaxe · 02/07/10, 8:47 PM

Good morning from the WoW community team.

Some of the weapons from the Lich King are not as good as we had hoped. To encourage you to want these new weapons, we have decided to change some of the old combat ratings over to better ones. We have obtained a preview of these changes, for your perusal, on behalf of the Beijing development team.

25-Man

* Royal Scepter of Terenas II: MP5 replaced with Haste Rating

The mace is getting changed, so it seams we do have a proper BiS weapon after all.

Pretty pleased that they react to players suggestions, and they also do it in a timely manner.

Ikefury · 02/07/10, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kissmyaxe

The mace is getting changed, so it seams we do have a proper BiS weapon after all.

Pretty pleased that they react to players suggestions, and they also do it in a timely manner.

Agreed. Now not only is our weapon as good as the sword, it also looks 10x better, too >.>.

tufy · Yesterday, 11:02 AM

I stand corrected, Blizzard did bring the same issue in game twice and fixed it twice, go figure. In any case, Terenas II is now by far the best in slot for us. Makes me wanna go "We told you so" on devs :p

fakestreet · Today, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Trivial

So I failed to read about the Phylactery ICD, and got it from our Sindragosa kill. However, I did notice ingame that the ICD was quite low, so I went here and read that.

However, I thought of something: What if we can use EM everytime the trinket is up? It could actually be a big upgrade. I'm afraid I'm not very good at maths, but I did test on a dummy how much time would EM reset using t10 2 pieces just by spamming LB (with WoA, without Swift Retribution), and it was about 75 seconds with my gear.

Now, assuming you do EM as soon as you the trinket procs, and considering about 100 seconds to proc again, do you think it is worth it to wait about 25 seconds to use EM again with the trinket up (seems rather bad idea), or the trinket is just not that good at all?

Movements would put EM on a longer CD so that seems reasonable.

The main thing I like about Phylactery is the proc would really buff up your Fire Elemental so that's the main reason I like it more than Spyglass. The only problem is the ICD is long enough that it might not proc during Lust so that can devalue the DPS gain from the trinket.

All in all, you can handwave its value compared to Spyglass on a fight-per-fight basis.