[Elemental] Optimal Gear & Item Discussion - Page 4

Dangeres · 06/19/09, 8:26 AM

Maybe, like T7.25, the T4 bonus is not worth going for and individual BIS is where it's at. I looked over the last 2 weeks WWW's and my electrified damage is 2.21% of my overall dmg. 2.21% hardly seems worthwhile for a 4 set bonus.

tarrick · 06/19/09, 9:15 AM

It seems unlikely that the stat difference between two pieces of T8.5 gear and non-set BIS would make up a difference on the order of 100-200 DPS (and more on haste capped fights like Hodir and Vezax).

tufy · 06/19/09, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dangeres

Maybe, like T7.25, the T4 bonus is not worth going for and individual BIS is where it's at. I looked over the last 2 weeks WWW's and my electrified damage is 2.21% of my overall dmg. 2.21% hardly seems worthwhile for a 4 set bonus.

At 5k dps, 2.21% equals 110 dps, or around 3x as much as a profession will give you. I'd say that's pretty decent

Ghando · 06/19/09, 5:44 PM

What Tufy said. 2-3% of total damage is pretty significant for a set bonus on gear that's already BiS or very close to it. If you don't think the T8 4-piece bonus is worthwhile, you either have every single piece of BiS cloth gear or you're being ignorant.

Dangeres · 06/19/09, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by tufy

At 5k dps, 2.21% equals 110 dps, or around 3x as much as a profession will give you. I'd say that's pretty decent

If you replaced each tier item with a BIS that is 1% more dps per item I'd say that's pretty decent. The potential is definitely there that T8 set bonuses will end up as valuable as the T7 bonuses after enough people have a few months of testing gear.

Souai · 06/19/09, 9:37 PM

The helm and chest are clearly better than all the other options in the game for a final set. For me, the Observer's Mantle is 28 dps stronger than the tier shoulders, Leggings of the Enslaved Idol are 52 dps better and Pharos Gloves are 60 dps better.

The highest dps set I can come up with without considering the tier bonus is only 140 dps ahead of the tier set. At that gear level the set bonus only has to be about 2.1% of our overall damage to break even, and it is clearly higher than that on average.

It will probably be hard to make us not wear T8.5 unless they expand our set or seriously bump the item level of the next wave of gear.

Lisa · 06/22/09, 12:08 AM

so assuming that i will be the last one in the raid to get the bis pants - what would be the next best 4+1 piece? would [Chestguard of the Fallen God] be good?

Lares · 06/22/09, 4:56 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa

so assuming that i will be the last one in the raid to get the bis pants - what would be the next best 4+1 piece? would [Chestguard of the Fallen God] be good?

I tried different gear combinations with SEIC and the best alternative to the cloth pants seems to be the restoration helm [Conqueror's Worldbreaker Headpiece].
Then you could take [Sash of Ancient Power] instead of [Belt of the Fallen Wyrm] to compensate for the hit rating loss. In a 5 minute fight this setup was only 5DPS lower as draenei shaman.

Dangeres · 06/22/09, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ghando

If you don't think the T8 4-piece bonus is worthwhile, you either have every single piece of BiS cloth gear or you're being ignorant.

This is the optimal gear and item discussion thread. If all BIS including cloth is our optimal gear the thread should reflect as much. As it stands with the current 4 piece bonus you only need each item to be .75% more dps than the T8.25 piece to give more dps than the 4 set bonus. As time goes by and numbers get crunched more it will not surprise me to see us not gearing for the 4 piece bonus.

Binkenstein · 06/22/09, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Dangeres

This is the optimal gear and item discussion thread. If all BIS including cloth is our optimal gear the thread should reflect as much. As it stands with the current 4 piece bonus you only need each item to be .75% more dps than the T8.25 piece to give more dps than the 4 set bonus. As time goes by and numbers get crunched more it will not surprise me to see us not gearing for the 4 piece bonus.

You're missing the point.

The point we're making is that the absolute complete best in slot gear when ignoring the T8 4pc bonus is pretty much the same output as the absolute complete best in slot gear which has T8 4pc. Don't know about you, but I'd go with the option that ends up being a) easier to get, and b) won't have the Priests/Locks/Mages/Druids calling for your head.

In a practical world, yes, one of those 5 set pieces will be replaced, but the current trend is to either swap the Ele helm for a Resto one or get the hard-mode shoulders depending on your hit requirements.

Ongor · 06/26/09, 11:53 AM

In response to what 4+1 peice of gear would be optimum. i have a few findings/opinions.

Prior to getting t8.5 shoulders I was using:
Conq Helm
Conq Legs
Conq Gloves
Valor8 Shoulders

and instead of using the t8.5 chest, I was using the Yogg25 chest [Chestguard of the Fallen God]

I noticed switching between the two chest peices, I only lost 2 spellpower with the non-tier chest but gained almost 1.2% crit. The haste was'nt much of a difference as both put me over 550 haste.

One question I do have that I have been looking for is about the haste cap? Is there a number that once you go above, it will not affect your cast times.

wannakill · 06/26/09, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ongor

One question I do have that I have been looking for is about the haste cap? Is there a number that once you go above, it will not affect your cast times.

There is no haste Cap.

But depending on your playstyle/latency/raidbuffs there is an target many shaman aim for. The 5 Lightning bolt in 1 Lava Burst cooldown. Or 5 LB in 8 sec.
This lays towards 525 and more haste.

This is based on a pure LB spammer with Flame shock every second LvB.

Praenius · 06/26/09, 8:18 PM

I wanted to reopen a discussion on the utility of the [Scale of Fates] trinket vs. the [Eye of the Broodmother].

With the increase of proc rates for Lightning Overload, I was starting to ponder on my TBC days and strategies. I would use the [The Skull of Gul'dan] in conjunction with former leatherworking Drums of Battle (80 haste) to give me a result close to that of a heroism. So every 2 minutes I got a heroism like effect which resulted in extra casts and extra chances at Lightning Overloads. This startegy worked quite well in TBC and I was frequently at the top of the meters against pure dps classes.

The question I would like to discuss: Is it more beneficial to do a similar mix with [Scale of Fates] and Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 Haste for 10 sec....increased to 12 sec in 3.2)? I have 553 base haste so in the opening minute I could activate the trinket and gloves, boosting my haste rating to 1325. One minute later I could activate the gloves again with a Potion of Speed (500 haste for 15 sec) totalling 1393 haste. And in the 3rd minute rinse and repeat.

In addition, since our tanks are quite gifted with snap threat, I could even pop a potion of speed just before the pull and activate the gloves & trinket for 1800+ haste (I'd have to do the math but that would probably start clipping LB, and definately LvB). Just some thoughts I've been pondering on and would love feedback from the community.

Flau · 06/27/09, 11:17 PM

I don't have the stamina to calculate things like this by myself.. but its maybe an interessting idea...
I like high numbers... and with 3.2 theres going to be an ele 4p bonus affecting LvB.

Totem of thunderfall ( 215 base dmg inc. )
Elem T9 4er (304 bade dmg inc. )
Glyph of Lava (+ 10% scaling from sp )

VS

Totem of Hex ( 165 sp for Lb )
Elem T9 4er ( -"- )
Glyph of Totem of wrath ( 84 sp )

Whitch combination is better for pure dps?
Maybe a bad question, but i'm not sure if a base dmg increasment can change the dmg scaling...

Deadnlovinit · 06/30/09, 9:22 AM

Now on the EJ, Ele Faq page. It says For alliance Hit cap is 342 and with debuff/buff it is 263.

Now I understand as shaman's we get 3% and we get another 1% racial. What I am unclear about is what exactly is getting you down to the 263 mark? Is it a combination of food buffs needed, or some other raid buff with a specific class? I am trying to max my dps, and gear/gemiming properly. My question is what has to happen to get to that 263?

Thanks.

Darcan · 06/30/09, 10:18 AM

A hit rating of 263 = 10% hit, add to that the 3% from your Elemental Precision, 1% from Heroic Presence. To get to the 17% hit cap, you'll need a Shadow Priest for 3% with Misery or a Balance Druid for Improved Faerie Fire.

Deadnlovinit · 06/30/09, 1:24 PM

Faerie Fire would need to be up and refreshed constantly for the benefit to be steady.

Thanks for the info.

• Hamlet · 06/30/09, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Deadnlovinit

Faerie Fire would need to be up and refreshed constantly for the benefit to be steady.

Thanks for the info.

You should expect IFF to be up full-time if it's needed.

Dangeres · 07/01/09, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

... the current trend is to either swap the Ele helm for a Resto one or get the hard-mode shoulders depending on your hit requirements.

Should the OP reflect the current trend for BIS with the resto helm or the HM shoulders?

Darcan · 07/01/09, 7:49 AM

Originally Posted by Deadnlovinit

Faerie Fire would need to be up and refreshed constantly for the benefit to be steady.

Thanks for the info.

Remember the hit cap is at Boss level mobs only. On noraml trash it's not an issue. If you're running with a balance druid, it is in his own best interest to keep it up, he's getting a selfish buff of +3% crit to his spells. And its a 5 mins debuff so it really shouldn't be that much of a problem to keep it up.

Ammanas · 07/02/09, 6:30 PM

The other thing to consider is its 1000X easier to get 4PC 8.5 than a full hard-mode BiS drop table. Especially since half those drops are cloth and will be bid on by every caster DPS in your raid. If the DPS difference is so marginal (to the point of being argued whether it is actually an upgrade or not) then your raid is probably better served with you using 4PC and your mages/warlocks/ECT getting some of those hard mode drops.

By the time most people will have been clearing all the hard modes long enough to collect a full BiS set (with all those cloth pieces) 3.2 will already be live. That is unless you're guild is insanely lucky with drops AND you have some sort of DKP system that lets you horde a giant point lead.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for min/maxing and having the best possible gear listed in the Optimal Gear thread. At some point its just not worth the trade off to actually get it though.

thordinrokbeard · 07/06/09, 1:30 AM

I was just wondering if we the best in slot list is up to date on the OP. I didn't notice Nebula Band from 10 man algalon on there which is better than Pyrelight Circle as far as I know.

Ongor · 07/06/09, 10:27 AM

Hey guys I just finally picked up Illustration Soul a few days ago and have been using it along with the Broodmother trink off Razor10.

I swtiched Illustration with Dying Curse but have read that Dying Curse is actually a better trink than the Broodmother? I haven't found much evidence to confirm this but I figure someone on here would know the facts that would help me out, Just to keep things in perspective when I took out Dying Curse, my hit is 288.

Pretzle · 07/06/09, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ongor

Hey guys I just finally picked up Illustration Soul a few days ago and have been using it along with the Broodmother trink off Razor10.

I swtiched Illustration with Dying Curse but have read that Dying Curse is actually a better trink than the Broodmother? I haven't found much evidence to confirm this but I figure someone on here would know the facts that would help me out, Just to keep things in perspective when I took out Dying Curse, my hit is 288.

Just use the spreadsheet - essentially it is,

125 Spell Power + 87 Crit vs 200 Spell Power

Which in most cases will always favour for the Illustration. As such I would use [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] and [Dying Curse].

Darkbeastsb · 07/08/09, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by thordinrokbeard

I was just wondering if we the best in slot list is up to date on the OP. I didn't notice Nebula Band from 10 man algalon on there which is better than Pyrelight Circle as far as I know.

I don't think everything is 100% accurate, but if you have the numbers to back up any claims feel free to post them as other people have done and the OP will update them.

On a similar note, it might be a good idea to have two optimal trinket lists. One with hit and one without. Granted their are not that many trinkets with hit in the game but Living Flame is so high on the list solely because of the massive hit.