[Elemental] Optimal Gear & Item Discussion - Page 8

lichang0704 · 09/04/09, 4:15 AM

I got [Talisman of Volatile Power] the other day and I thought I could use it with scale of fate at the same time. But I was wrong; the two trinkets could not be activated at the same time. Then I heard from a friend, who plays as a balance druid, saying that with starfall he can charge the trinket up in 4 seconds, which gives the full benefit of the trinket while Eclipse is up. So I guess it would be more desirable for the druids.

Foxx2405 · 09/04/09, 6:29 AM

Originally Posted by lichang0704

I got [Talisman of Volatile Power] the other day and I thought I could use it with scale of fate at the same time. But I was wrong; the two trinkets could not be activated at the same time. Then I heard from a friend, who plays as a balance druid, saying that with starfall he can charge the trinket up in 4 seconds, which gives the full benefit of the trinket while Eclipse is up. So I guess it would be more desirable for the druids.

The tooltip implies that generates a charge on cast, not on a landed spell. I'm not knowledgable about balance druids, but isn't starfall a one time cast fire and forget ?

If it procs on spell hits rather than the casts, it could be a useful trinket for some aoe classes. But the tooltip doesn't imply that it works that way.

Also it is somewhat confirmed you can have both the heroic and non-heroic version of the CC items. I still doubt its intended that way though, a hotfix on that wouldn't surprise me.

lichang0704 · 09/05/09, 2:23 AM

I've found this statement in the comments about the trinket;

Quote:

I have obtained this trinket yesterday , and just like Fieryneko the warlock i'd say this trinket is on par with iLvl 200 Trinkets. For many classes this will suck alot for sure.
Now me , im a moonkin and well , the trinket generates charges everytime a star of my starfall spell lands. This means i can almost get the full use out of this trinket , i believe its about 2 Seconds to charge all the stacks up. When used correctly just when your starting a boss encounter or the lunar eclipse , this can give a nice dps boost indeed

.
Also , im not a dps !@#$% and such . so this trinket will prove worthy on fights where mana can be a issue and is needed for the healers , so i can safely spend my innervate on them without getting OOM.

Verelia - Kazzak - EU

Wildwary · 09/05/09, 12:37 PM

Quick question,

Would you guys say that [Battlemaster's Ruination] is better than [Forge Ember]? I am lacking a bit in the trinket department at the moment, I used [Mark of the War Prisoner] before, but I can not use the hit anymore because of all the hit on the rest of my gear. My other trinket is [Sundial of the Exiled] which I'm also very keen to replace. Both trinkets really feel less optimal with so much crit rating.

Mylandah · 09/05/09, 9:15 PM

Tufy use:

Ring of the Darkmender - Items - Sigrie

Instead of Firestorm Ring.

This will drop you to 32 hit below the hit cap, you then can use 3x SP/HIT gems to get 2 below cap, which is so close to cap that I doubt you'll see a miss more than once every 3-4 bosses.

You will exchange:

33 crit, 32(56) hit, RED for = 49 haste, 11 SP, YELLOW

DPS loss from Red to Yellow slot isn't much, nor is changing SP/Haste gems to SP/hit gems. Actually lets take that change into account changing gems.

33 crit, 30 haste, 2 hit + 23SP = 49 haste, 11 SP + 12SP/10HASTE

or

33 crit, 2 hit = 29 haste, some stam/int.

In the end I'd assume you'll end up with more total DPS doing it this way... but not by much! Its still an alternative however.

Ryethe · 09/05/09, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wildwary

Quick question,

Would you guys say that [Battlemaster's Ruination] is better than [Forge Ember]? I am lacking a bit in the trinket department at the moment, I used [Mark of the War Prisoner] before, but I can not use the hit anymore because of all the hit on the rest of my gear. My other trinket is [Sundial of the Exiled] which I'm also very keen to replace. Both trinkets really feel less optimal with so much crit rating.

Why not use [Abyssal Rune]? It can be got from normal ToC5 runs so its entirely farmable and better than both the trinkets you listed. Forge Ember shows up marginally better for me if you must choose between the two.

Borninexile · 09/06/09, 3:22 AM

Just a quick question. At what stat level is it ok to drop 4pc T8.5 for 2pc T9. I have enough badges to get 2pc T9.5 but is it worth it to drop the T8.5 4pc?

*edit* And looking at most BiS lists they say [Barb of Tarasque] is BiS, but why wouldnt [Sunreaver Disciple's Blade] be better with a 39 SP gem in it?

Binkenstein · 09/06/09, 4:35 AM

Originally Posted by Borninexile

Just a quick question. At what stat level is it ok to drop 4pc T8.5 for 2pc T9. I have enough badges to get 2pc T9.5 but is it worth it to drop the T8.5 4pc?

At the point where 2pc T9 + stat upgrades outweigh the loss of the 4pc T8 bonus.

Moshne · 09/06/09, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Borninexile

Just a quick question. At what stat level is it ok to drop 4pc T8.5 for 2pc T9. I have enough badges to get 2pc T9.5 but is it worth it to drop the T8.5 4pc?

*edit* And looking at most BiS lists they say [Barb of Tarasque] is BiS, but why wouldnt [Sunreaver Disciple's Blade] be better with a 39 SP gem in it?

Because losing 71 spell power is not recouped by a 39 SP gem. Any list using Barb of Tarasque assumes the hit is being used, otherwise it would be using a [Misery's End]

Aside from that, considering any item BIS "if I use a limited supply gem" will often lead to bad results. Nearly every item would be better than the 2nd best if you consider using a JC Unique(3) gem. However, you could use that gem in any slot you'd use a red gem... so there is no net benefit using it in that item.

tufy · 09/07/09, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mylandah

Tufy use:

Ring of the Darkmender - Items - Sigrie

Instead of Firestorm Ring.

In the end I'd assume you'll end up with more total DPS doing it this way... but not by much! Its still an alternative however.

"some int" isn't exact science, is it?

Anyway, yes, your suggestion yields around 15 dps gain, no idea why I didn't think of the ring in the first place (probably because I dislike any form of mp5 by default :/). I changed the list accordingly.

cartr · 09/08/09, 7:36 AM

"When you see it , you'll shit bricks"

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...er/anubdmg.jpg

I am asking myself why looking for the best dpscycle/optimisation when i see this report...

Lazei , chamelem with a pretty good stuff .

orion121 · 09/08/09, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by cartr

"When you see it , you'll shit bricks"

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...er/anubdmg.jpg

I am asking myself why looking for the best dpscycle/optimisation when i see this report...

Lazei , chamelem with a pretty good stuff .

It's pretty clear they were carefully placing the burrowers next to the boss for some CL cleave, the DPS you're seeing is largely AoE DPS and...

Originally Posted by chaqqo

5.8k dps for a elemental shammy? Thats not even that good again. i've seen better

I have a feeling that Lazei was stuck with ToW down for healers and caster DPS (major DPS nerf when everyone be cleavin') and was likely stuck on orb duty aswell. Those numbers look pretty good given the large kite phases where DPS drops pretty significantly.

Binkenstein · 09/08/09, 4:47 PM

By the way, I'm pretty happy with the latest version of the Rawr plugin, so you should probably start using that to find your best in slot lists.

greenstriker · 09/08/09, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by tufy

My current shopping list:

Head: Nobundo's Helm of Triumph, gems CSD + Reckless Ametrine, Arcanum of Burning Mysteries
Neck: Wail of the Val'kyr, gems Reckless Ametrine
Shoulders: Nobundo's Shoulderpads of Triumph, gems Glowing Dreadstone, Master's Inscription of the Storm
Cloak: Jaina's Radiance, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby, Springy Arachnoweave
Chest: Nobundo's Hauberk of Triumph, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby + Glowing Dreadstone, Enchant Chest: Powerful Stats
Wrist: Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby, Enchant Bracers - Superior Spellpower
Hands: Nobundo's Gloves of Triumph, gems Veiled Ametrine, Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket
Waist: Icehowl Cinch, gems 2x Runed Cardinal Ruby + Reckless Ametrine
Legs: Legwraps of the Awakening, gems 3x Runed Cardinal Ruby, Sapphire Spellthread
Feet: Boots of Tremoring Earth, gems 2x Runed Cardinal Ruby, Nitro Boosts (note: I counted engineering boost here as one of my two boots (interchanging them depending on fight needs); most people will go for Tuskar's Vitality only, so count 24 crit rating less)
Ring1: Ring of the Darkmender, gems Veiled Ametrine
Ring2: Nebula Band, gems Veiled Ametrine
Trinket1: Reign of the Unliving
Trinket2: not sure. If you can have the 258 and 245 ilevel versions of the same item at once, another Reign of the Dead here. Else, Flare of the Heavens
Weapon: Misery's End, Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower
Offhand: Bastion of Purity, gems Reckless Ametrine, Scroll of Enchant Shield - Greater Intellect
Relic: Totem of Electrifying Wind

This will give me:
spellpower: 3049 (not including flametongue, totem of wrath and other buffs)
crit: 825 (note: this number includes Nitro Boosts enchant. For regular Tuskar's Vitality, subtract 24 crit rating)
haste: 965 (+200 up most of the time from relic)
hit: 261 (2 hit rating under cap, neglectable in face of haste gains compared to those two hit)
intellect: 1137

On top of this, one (possibly two, in which case crit rating is lower by 120 + i'd lose one uncounted spellpower proc, but I would also gain 150 spellpower) lightning capacitor effect, hand-launched pyro rockets and saronite bombs.

EDIT: list slightly modified as per Mylandah's suggestion in post #181.

This is my list as well after doing alot of searching around (though I need to add a hit gem for being horde and all). Although I plan to gem differently, using the yellow sockets for pure haste gems (and have 2 Quick Dragon's Eyes). I'm also putting my second blue gem in those boots with a haste gem. I realize this may sound strange, but its actually possible to hit over the cap for a 6th LB between LvB's fully raid buffed.

With said gems and the haste to cloak enchant, I calculated that the gear set up has 1122 haste (1322 with the totems uptime). And from my understanding, one needs a 1.333 repeating LB cast to get 6 off before LvB comes back up. With the 3% haste from a ret/boomkin and my WoA: ((2/(4/3)/1.05/1.03)-1)*32.79*100 = 1269 haste needed pending we don't move for a full rotation.

It's experimental because I'm sacrificing some SP for haste, and I might change my gemming around to just reach the cap...or I may scrap the idea entirely.

As for the trinket, reading over the lock forums found that the proc can crit and its scaled with SP and it is affected by debuffs on the target. It accounts for around 3-4% of total damage.

Thorgrim · 09/08/09, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

By the way, I'm pretty happy with the latest version of the Rawr plugin, so you should probably start using that to find your best in slot lists.

Is there an optimal place to put the burst/sustained slider to get realistic results? With everything in the default position, it tells me to socket int/mp5 gems everywhere.

I do get much smarter gemming if I set it all the way to 100% burst, but I'm worried there might be some other consequence to that I'm missing.

Binkenstein · 09/08/09, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Is there an optimal place to put the burst/sustained slider to get realistic results? With everything in the default position, it tells me to socket int/mp5 gems everywhere.

I do get much smarter gemming if I set it all the way to 100% burst, but I'm worried there might be some other consequence to that I'm missing.

1) You probably haven't set up your buffs correctly (ie: Replenishment, BoW, etc)
2) Rawr use queries should probably be directed to the elemental thread or even the Main Rawr thread

Stel · 09/09/09, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

By the way, I'm pretty happy with the latest version of the Rawr plugin, so you should probably start using that to find your best in slot lists.

Thanks for pointing out, I pretty much quit trying to get something out of Rawr some time ago, but the current version is working pretty good as far as i can tell.

Edit : Rest of the post removed, I had somehow missed the last graph post of Bink regarding Haste vs SP gemming in T8 and T9, which is answering my question. Sorry for polluting

chaqqo · 09/09/09, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Chitzu

I can almost guarantee you that the Recount you just linked there, is taken out of a Hodir fight, might also be from a trash pack

also in that case, it's not impressive at all, as a decently geared Elemental shaman you should be able to push atleast 10K DPS on Hodir and even Vezax

Thats taken from "Stars" the second guild that got Anub'arak down on 25man heroic.
And 10k isnt really alot on Hodir, I do 14k my self.

Ayrlyn · 09/09/09, 11:11 AM

I just got the [Talisman of Volatile Power] I have more then enough hit rating 280 in fact with the talisman. I am just wondering if I am hurting myself in the long run by replacing the [Dying Curse] albeit I don't need the hit rating but is the spell power proc more dps then the crit/haste since sp>haste>crit?

♦ masanbol · 09/09/09, 12:19 PM

Edit: removed.

Hesper · 09/09/09, 12:57 PM

Reign of the Unliving got last night and the proc alone was a 5% dmg increase. I also did some hardcore searching the Reign of the Unliving does stack with Reign of the dead. Im up to get the first Reign of the dead aswell we got up to twin valks last week so next couple weeks we should have anub down. All i gotta say is THANKS BLIZZARD finally (= . I am currently beating all my casters except one of our warlocks which hes high ranked overall dps in WoL. Anyways your welcome to check my setup. Im currently working for Tuffy's list. I might use t9 leggs until we down anub hardmode. Between chest/ leggs you gain 50 hit over teir 8.5 i figure i could either a. drop a hit ring or b. drop my hit cloak. I do alot of 10 mans without a shadow priest so being 285 isnt too bad. I alrdy got the 10 man hardmode shoulders which are only a 10 spell difference from 245 t9 and slight haste difference. I got stuff to get 3 piece. I assume with 4 piece t9 i drop ToW glyph and use Lava. Right now with raid buffs/ flask with ToW im at 3300 spell without Flare of heavens proc so even more reason once i get 4 piece to use Lava glyph. I think it was said 4 piece with over 3200 spell u swap to Lava glyph.

also forgot to say i got normal firestorm ring. I do not like using it I would rather use frozen loop with haste vs crit. also i mis labeled that the HErioc version of Reign of the Unliving stacks with normal different proc names. SHard of flame/mote of flame

Blaazze · 09/09/09, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by tufy

My current shopping list:

Head: Nobundo's Helm of Triumph, gems CSD + Reckless Ametrine, Arcanum of Burning Mysteries
Neck: Wail of the Val'kyr, gems Reckless Ametrine
Shoulders: Nobundo's Shoulderpads of Triumph, gems Glowing Dreadstone, Master's Inscription of the Storm
Cloak: Jaina's Radiance, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby, Springy Arachnoweave
Chest: Nobundo's Hauberk of Triumph, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby + Glowing Dreadstone, Enchant Chest: Powerful Stats
Wrist: Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers, gems Runed Cardinal Ruby, Enchant Bracers - Superior Spellpower
Hands: Nobundo's Gloves of Triumph, gems Veiled Ametrine, Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket
Waist: Icehowl Cinch, gems 2x Runed Cardinal Ruby + Reckless Ametrine
Legs: Legwraps of the Awakening, gems 3x Runed Cardinal Ruby, Sapphire Spellthread
Feet: Boots of Tremoring Earth, gems 2x Runed Cardinal Ruby, Nitro Boosts (note: I counted engineering boost here as one of my two boots (interchanging them depending on fight needs); most people will go for Tuskar's Vitality only, so count 24 crit rating less)
Ring1: Ring of the Darkmender, gems Veiled Ametrine
Ring2: Nebula Band, gems Veiled Ametrine
Trinket1: Reign of the Unliving
Trinket2: not sure. If you can have the 258 and 245 ilevel versions of the same item at once, another Reign of the Dead here. Else, Flare of the Heavens
Weapon: Misery's End, Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower
Offhand: Bastion of Purity, gems Reckless Ametrine, Scroll of Enchant Shield - Greater Intellect
Relic: Totem of Electrifying Wind

This will give me:
spellpower: 3049 (not including flametongue, totem of wrath and other buffs)
crit: 825 (note: this number includes Nitro Boosts enchant. For regular Tuskar's Vitality, subtract 24 crit rating)
haste: 965 (+200 up most of the time from relic)
hit: 261 (2 hit rating under cap, neglectable in face of haste gains compared to those two hit)
intellect: 1137

On top of this, one (possibly two, in which case crit rating is lower by 120 + i'd lose one uncounted spellpower proc, but I would also gain 150 spellpower) lightning capacitor effect, hand-launched pyro rockets and saronite bombs.

EDIT: list slightly modified as per Mylandah's suggestion in post #181.

Very helpful. How would you change your shopping list if you guild won't let you take cloth or leather gear?

Duress · 09/09/09, 6:13 PM

I see people are using Rawr 2.2.14 to work on their characters and fix their lists. I posted the list for which I was banned after working with the Elemental Shaman Model developer and went public with it here when I thought it had reached acceptably correct levels.

My BiS Horde list is the same as the most recent with these exceptions:

Circle of the Darkmender over Nebula Band
Belt of Binding Cold over Icehowl Cinch

Here are the differences.

-3 Hit
32 Spell Power
27 Crit
-54 Haste
===
48 Int
28 MP5
26 Stam
9 Armor

Relevant to seeking the highest TDPS was also discovering the sweet spot of 893 haste.

FYI: Horde gear will always have a greater unique item id than its equivalent Alliance piece if you aren't sure which is for your faction.

Chitzu · 09/09/09, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by chaqqo

Thats taken from "Stars" the second guild that got Anub'arak down on 25man heroic.
And 10k isnt really alot on Hodir, I do 14k my self.

I think you got me wrong there, didn't stated that 10k was a lot, said 10K is what you should atleast be on for that fight, below that is not impressive at all, and yes, we're about the same DPS there, it depends on how the Buff is spread and to who, can't really go full out DPS at all times due to threat issues incase the tank isn't getting the first one, when i get my 2.nd buff, that's where i would be able to go full out without having any problems with the threat.

But yeh, on Anub that DPS is where it should be at due to all adds and the positioning, there's not really any movement at all as caster on that fight unless you're shooting down the bubbles which you most of the time got a hunter to do anyways.

daia · 09/09/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Duress

FYI: You can only have one Reign trinket at a time.

You can use the 245 and the 258 version at the same time. A member of my guild uses both versions of a ring at the same time.

The procs are also slightly different to make sure they will both work at the same time.

Equip: You gain a Mote of Flame each time you cause a damaging spell critical strike.

Equip: You gain a Shard of Flame each time you cause a damaging spell critical strike.