With 3.2 around the corner and the knowledge that some shaman mechanics involving totems and healing would be changed we get our first taste as to what is actually going to happen from this new post by Neth.
Originally Posted by Nethaera
There comes a time in all shaman’s lives when they must learn to harness the power of nature and wield powerful totems. As they grow in power, so do the opportunities to use these instruments of healing, protection, and destruction. In the upcoming content patch, Call of the Crusade, the shaman will be able to quickly place totems of each element, aiding them in managing these powerful focuses of nature.
We wanted to provide some insight regarding the upcoming shaman-specific interface addition, the Totem Bar. Shaman will be able to utilize this new bar to manage their fire, earth, water, and air totems in a more accessible and convenient way. This bar will appear on the left-hand side above the standard toolbar, similar to warrior stances or druid forms. The bar contains space for four totems of the player’s choice, one of each element. Clicking the respective button will drop that totem. To the right of the four totems is a button for Totemic Call, which we have renamed Call of Earth. To the left of the four totems is a new ability named Call of Fire which will drop all four totems on the bar at once. The mana cost is the same as if the shaman dropped all four of the totems one at a time. However, it takes but a single global cooldown.
Questing shaman will be able to quickly move their totems of choice forward, while a shaman in an instance, Arena, or Battleground will be able to replace their totems if they have to move or if the totems are destroyed.
Shamans will also be able to customize their bar to set Call of Fire to drop less than four totems if they choose. Access to this functionality is made available at the same level as Call of Earth (currently level 30.) At higher levels, Shaman will gain two additional spells, Call of Air and Call of Water. These function exactly the same as Call of Fire, essentially giving the shaman three different sets of totems that can be placed at once. New key bindings will also be made available for all of these slots.
As with all new content under testing, we want to caution players that, as a new part of the interface, there may be additional changes during the period of the PTR until the release of the Call of the Crusade content patch. We look forward to constructive feedback once it is available for testing.
Personally I am not super impressed with the system and hope it receives some changes to make it seem less clunky. I posted this in the thread as a response. What does everyone else think of our new totem bar?
Originally Posted by Uttrswndfury
This is cool I suppose... but it still doesn't fix the major problems with totems in PVP and to a lesser degree PVE. We are still plagued with totem stomping macros(dead horse meet stick). Also no other class can range their buffs entirely and have to spend another 1k+ mana to drop them in a new spot. Maybe add in a mana redux based on time left on the totem when it is redropped? As I just alluded to the mobility problems of totems are still there in both pvp and pve. We can just be kited away from our totems and then have to spend 2 GCD's to pick them up and re drop them and end up with a net loss of mana. Both of those being so precious in pvp right now.
Maybe they should all pick up totems and then when you hit it it does a recall and refunds mana for all active totems then in the same GCD drops the totems again. Effectively giving you 4 totem sets and Totemic recall off of the GCD.
Also in pvp this system will feel clunky as we drop a lot of totems that do not have similar cooldowns so you may hit the button and only drop 2 totems. Then you will have to watch your totem cooldowns and hit earthbind and grounding by themselves so that you dont take a mana hit for the other totems that may still be down.. All of this seems like a minor buff to PVE play and a clunky system in PVP that will just end up in giving me 3-4 more keybinds that I will hardly ever press.
TL;DR this fixes little and I am hardly impressed by this version.
Some sort of UI was required to allow users to drop four totems in one GCD. They're just providing insight into their chosen implementation, a fairly standard totemtimers/yata-style totem bar. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.
Some sort of UI was required to allow users to drop four totems in one GCD. They're just providing insight into their chosen implementation, a fairly standard totemtimers/yata-style totem bar. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.
Right but they have been saying that they realize that there are many inherent problems with totems at the moment and this does not seem to fix any of them except that you save 2-3 GCD's when dropping totems. Which while nice was the least of my concerns with totems in PVP where the majority of the problems with totems lied.
You seem to have some sort of odd expectation that blizzard is developing to fulfill your personal expectations, and that they gave any sort of indication that this one feature was some kind of 'catch all' fix for every problem with totems.
Right but they have been saying that they realize that there are many inherent problems with totems at the moment and this does not seem to fix any of them except that you save 2-3 GCD's when dropping totems. Which while nice was the least of my concerns with totems in PVP where the majority of the problems with totems lied.
This is just one item that Blizz has chosen to pre-release before the patch notes come out. Don't hate the Bar just because it didn't fix every concern.
This has the potential to be very very useful depending on how they code the various setups and how they interact with each other. If they somply make it dumb and drop 4 totems without doing any kind of mana rebate or discount for totems you already have up its nice at best. If they make it smarter in how much mana it will cost its better.
Especially if they combine it with larger ranges for buff totems and/or remove buff totems for straight forwards buffs and leave totems for special effects (dmg/tremor/EB etc)
I agree with slant here, this is just a case of an addon getting absorbed into the default UI, I really don't think now's the time to get into all the issues that totems are allegedly plagued with.
As for the ability itself, I may still have TT installed, if only to be able to totem stack in raids (it's all about the little things :-P ). Maybe they'll make Call of Earth a no-GCD ability, which means you could macro it with the Call of Fire/etc. to get some of that mana back, all in one GCD. I honestly think that's the best one could hope for.
Like most of blizzard's implementations of popular addons, their intent isn't to replace addons for power users, it's to provide a usable solution so addons aren't required to play effectively. They get to them one-by-one. Hopefully they'll clone pallypower next.
I'm really glad this is coming, but TotemTimer is still going to be one of the better ways to track ES/WS status, right?
You can use TellMeWhen for that. I have it set to warn me when ES isn't on my focus target, and when WS drops on me. Additionally, WS charges won't be eaten up by IWS anymore, so the need to keep track of it will be greatly reduced.
What I lack in intelligence I make up for in verbosity. Monte's LoL Blog
Of course a mod that has more functionality than totem management is still going to retain that extra functionality after this addition to the default UI. Depending on whether the new UI gizmo includes both duration and cooldown timers, it may be that Totem Timers will still completely replace it. That's not the point, though.
Blizzard announced the ability to drop 4 totems at once long before this new UI feature. Sure, it's not 100% guaranteed that the mechanic change was the driving force for the UI feature and not the other way around, but it's pretty clear that the official decision to go with the mechanic change was higher priority, and they were going to implement it with or without the addition to the UI. They know perfectly well that the ability to drop 4 at once is the real change here, and the UI feature is icing, not the other way around.
And like Malan said, there's no reason to believe this has anything to do with their plans to combat totem stomping macros or many of the other problems. It's silly to think that this won't be a significant improvement to totem mobility, though. I can't remember a time where mana cost was even remotely a deciding factor when considering whether I was going to redrop totems as any spec--more often, the question is, "do I have the GCDs available to use Totemic Call, or should I just say screw the mana cost, get them down faster, if at all?"
Really I think this is meant to be the "fix" for wrath with the idea that they will do a more extensive overhaul for the next expansion. Here is a quote from the Q&A that might show the direction they are thinking of going in that overhaul.
One longer-term change we are considering is removing the buff totems (replacing them with normal spells) and making all of the totems do something more active, like the current damage or healing totems. We’ve even discussed letting shamans carry a totem on their back (the tauren do it already) but that may be too far out there.
I actually think that moving the totem based buffs into normal buffing spells makes a lot of sense in today's WoW. The class is balanced around those buffs in a similar way to priests, mages, druids, paladins etc being balanced around using their own buffs. It also makes the dispell resistance talent in resto a more important pvp talent.
Given the depth of changes they may have to make at some point I dont think the totem bar is a bad move to improve things for the current game. I only worry that it may cause issues down the road when totems are "more active" or the devs may fall into a sense of "well it's kinda fixed lets not worry about it" when it comes time to make the more drastic changes to the totem system.
Once the new totem bar is on the test realms we can get a feel for it. I think one of two things is likely to happen to the mods. Either they will embrace and extend the totem bar functionality or they will close up shop because the totem bar addresses the problem an addon was trying to remedy. I think Totem timers will embrace and extend given some of the new features that have crept into the mod, but we will see.
Sure, it's not 100% guaranteed that the mechanic change was the driving force for the UI feature and not the other way around
What? Of course its clear. In order to drop 4 totems at once they need a way to have the user specify which totems to drop. Therefore, they also made a UI element.
What? Of course its clear. In order to drop 4 totems at once they need a way to have the user specify which totems to drop. Therefore, they also made a UI element.
Not necessarily. It wouldn't have required any interface change at all to add a spell that drops the most recently used totem from each school. You would have had to "prime the pump" sometimes by casting the 4 totems you want it to call. PvP it wouldn't have been as useful as the totem bar will be but people and mods would have worked around it to some extent.
It will be interesting to see how the totem bar handles totems that are on cooldown. I am assuming it will drop the other totems and skip the cooldown one, or give an error stating that one of the totems is on cooldown. Hopefully it wont stop it from dropping other totems.
What? Of course its clear. In order to drop 4 totems at once they need a way to have the user specify which totems to drop. Therefore, they also made a UI element.
Well, it was a good UI choice to implement a feature, then. I just hope the invariable QQ related to totems doesn't swoop in and force a negative change to this setup.
But aren't most of the totem issues occurring in PvP, anyway? I mean, let's be realistic for a moment, this isn't a game-changer for PvE. This'll save ~4-8 GCDs per fight, which is nice, but not a HUGE deal. I think this has a much larger impact on PvP, but seeing as I'm not a PvPer, I don't really know what that impact is. It doesn't cure totem stomping macros, but 3-4 GCDs seem to matter a whole lot more in arenas than in a boss fight, not to mention the ability to customize three different sets of totems allows for a bit less brainpower during a match.
But aren't most of the totem issues occurring in PvP, anyway? I mean, let's be realistic for a moment, this isn't a game-changer for PvE. This'll save ~4-8 GCDs per fight, which is nice, but not a HUGE deal. I think this has a much larger impact on PvP, but seeing as I'm not a PvPer, I don't really know what that impact is. It doesn't cure totem stomping macros, but 3-4 GCDs seem to matter a whole lot more in arenas than in a boss fight, not to mention the ability to customize three different sets of totems allows for a bit less brainpower during a match.
For historical background, Shamans have been complaining about the clunkiness and painful nature of totem management since before BC. Totemic Recall was Blizzard's first stab at the issue, followed by 1 second GCDs. While these changes were welcome, they were largely viewed as duct tape solutions. As has already been noted, Totemic Recall is often left unused.
The 3.2 changes are a big step forward, but Blizzard appears to have hit on what the community has been aware of for ages; totems are iconic but uninteresting.
Even if the effects of this aren't huge from a technical perspective for either PvE or PvP, at least from a Quality of Life perspective the change is fairly big.
What I lack in intelligence I make up for in verbosity. Monte's LoL Blog
For historical background, Shamans have been complaining about the clunkiness and painful nature of totem management since before BC. Totemic Recall was Blizzard's first stab at the issue, followed by 1 second GCDs. While these changes were welcome, they were largely viewed as duct tape solutions. As has already been noted, Totemic Recall is often left unused.
To add to that, range, duration, and mana cost have changed numerous times to try and "fix" problems with totems in both pve and pvp since the earliest raiding in vanilla.
What? Of course its clear. In order to drop 4 totems at once they need a way to have the user specify which totems to drop. Therefore, they also made a UI element.
One solution that to me seems rather easy (quite much easier than the one they announced) would have been to let the totemic recall give your character a buff for each totem you had down at the time it was cast. Then Call of Fire (or what they would have called a totemstomp ability) would give you a totem corresponding to the current buff on you.
The buffs themselves would just be a simple namebuff (no effect)
Personally I wouldn't have minded such a system as it is less likely to function horribly the first few months like so many of their UI changes. But if the announced system works then I'd be as happy as the next shammy.
I think its worth noting that Blizzard has already mentioned quite a few times before that they don't like totem-stomping macros and would like to see them gone, and that this isn't the totality of all incoming changes. Assuming this pushes through in 3.2, then the ability to drop 3-4 totems in a single GCD isn't quite as "meh that'll just make the pet whack totems a couple more times" as it sounds now.
Personally I am not super impressed with the system and hope it receives some changes to make it seem less clunky. I posted this in the thread as a response. What does everyone else think of our new totem bar?
I honestly don't see how this is "clunky." From the description, I am seeing in my minds eye something like "Got Wood" with Totemic Call on one side and Call of One-GCD on the other. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that seems pretty elegant all things considered.
They've already said they're moving buffs to their own spells and fixing pets eating totems before this announcement. Whining about those things in a completely unrelated thread makes you no better than the rest of the people clogging up the official forums.
Also the part about keybinds is silly. If you're seriously running arena as a shaman, you're gonna have 20 buttons bound, probably with paging as well.
Now: 2 fire totem for damage/situationally ice resist (+1 for wrath if you're ele) 2 water (cleansing/regen) 3 earth (stoneclaw/tremor/earthbind at least, maybe SOE if playing cleave against non-fear team) 2 air (grounding/haste, maybe melee haste for certain teams) 1 for recall
After: 3 binds for new calls, 1 for recall/call of earth, 2 special buttons for tremor/grounding alone
They're taking typical shaman arena binds for totem stuff from 10-12 buttons to 6. That's a cause for celebration if anything
Please do not take what might happen for certainty, that is how lot of misunderstanding start. They never promised such change, it was just an option for future. The part of Q & A:
One longer-term change we are considering is removing the buff totems (replacing them with normal spells) and making all of the totems do something more active, like the current damage or healing totems.
Some more clarification on how this is going to work from GC today :
Q u o t e:
1)Will we be able to change the preset totems in combat or arenas?
You can change them whenever you want. You can also set up the bar to drop 2 or 3 totems if that's all you want for the situation. They also work with dual-spec so you can effectively get 6 different totem configurations and all are easy to change. We also included more key bindings for the new slots. Most shamans in our tests just move their totems off of their action bars. It depends a little on how many different totems you need at a moment's notice. It might be harder to remove the totems from your bar if you PvP a lot and need a specific totem often.
Q u o t e:
2)How will totems with a cooldown function? Will it drop a different totem? Drop 3?
If a totem is on cooldown, it will drop what it can, so you might get 3 out of 4. If you don't have enough mana however it won't drop any rather than try to guess which ones you want. You can still cast totems manually by just clicking their button too.
Q u o t e:
3)Is there going to be any changes to the range, survivability or health of totems in general?
We are not going to make totems hard to kill, however we might make an exception for Mana Tide.
Q u o t e:
4)Is there going to be a change to the mana cost of totems in general? Perhaps a refund when we cast new ones,as if we had despawned them with Call of Earth?
No. Call of Earth still provides the partial refund however.
Q u o t e:
5)Will the Calls be subject to the current 1 second GCD totems have, or the 1.5 second GCD the rest of our abilities have?
I can't recall off the top of my head. Even if it's 1.5 sec it shouldn't be as big a deal because you will rarely ever be casting one totem right after the other (you will drop them all at once now).
Overall this looks useful. Not a panacea, but simply being able to save the GCDs on standard fights when we're moving and pulling is going to be a benefit. Beyond that I think it's nice for PvE but not a game-changer. It certainly doesn't hurt us, there's nothing stopping any Shaman ignoring it completely if they so desire.
06/17/09, 2:01 PM
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