While I see where you are going with this Beast Slaying has only affected one boss - Maexxna. If they want to even out the advantages they should just give taurens expertise to maces to go with their totem wielding image and make berserking a stable % on use rather than a variance. I am not trying to wishlist this but bringing in an arguement of Beast Slaying is pretty comical at best, unless I fell for a troll/sarcasm.

Magmadar and Lurker also.


Beast Slaying is like Command. It's a nice thing when it helps but otherwise really doesn't change the playing field very much. Same thing with most of the weapon spec racials since even with the racial the best weapon will still most likely be the best weapon whether it utilizes the racial or not. Really can't see offhanding Touch of Madness as working out better then Caress of Insanity for an Orc which means the racial is still pretty limited in scope.

PvP on the other hand the change to include Fist Weapons is nice but still doesn't compare to the utility of 5% more damage when blowing up a Hunter's pet or being able to use Warstomp.

Tauren definitely do need some help with their racials for PvE, I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

I meant this expansion.

Watch Arthas end up being protected by a Giant Two-Headed Hound who ends up being the true dps check for the entire raid zone.

Or maybe they will finally break out Titanosaur, just cause it hasn't made much of a difference yet doesn't mean it won't.


Edit - I thought a bit about adding Mace Spec to Tauren as a racial and it won't work because of Feral Druids. If mace spec was added on then you have another group looking specifically for 2-hand maces and it would be in their interest to keep Feral Druids in the market for physical dps staffs. They could give them a 5% damage bonus when killing plants and it would work in the lore and for Freya (but would be basically useless in PvP) but that isn't my call to make.

Maybe not against Tree of Life druids

That's a valid point but depends on how the system works because feral druids don't really "use" their weapons so I'm not sure if the actual effect would be applied to them in forms.

E: Or they can just go with fist weapons since they all look like hand shears anyways (for plant cutting/grooming ok).

The aforementioned [The Stray] off trash in Naxx 10 and [Pride] from honor badges before it.

He means CoI is more of an upgrade over Vulmir then GSD is over The Masticator which makes a lot of sense since GSD, Masticator and CoI are all 2.7 and Vulmir is 2.6 and matched weapon speeds is a nice dps boost due to the ability to sync weapons to get additional Flurry uptime.

I disagree.

Troll's beast slaying bonus is too situational to be considered in raid enviornment.

Command gives 5% bonus damage to wolves, thats easily 10 DPS.

Orc's weapon spec with the upcoming changes (now applying to fists) can easily grant 41.17expEP (assuming 2 that's 82.35*EP).

Draenei's racial gives them 32.79hitEP (if 1.6 then 52.464*EP).


Seems to me like in terms of racials, orcs are by far the best enhancement shamans, followed by trolls and draenei with taurens being the worst.

EDIT: fixed weapon spec formula

Orc racial is just as situational since it depends on Blizzard itemizing BiS offhand Axes otherwise the bonus is essentially useless for raiding since leaving one weapon uncapped to just hit the cap on the other one with a racial is just bad.

You also don't seem to understand what the orc racial really is anyway. It's not 5% expertise, it's 5 expertise which is a 1.25% reduction in dodge/parry, 5 expertise is equal to 41 expertise rating which (using 2EP per rating since you will normally be using gems to cap) is worth 82EP not 377.085EP. Applying the same general standard (1hit = 2EP as you can gem to reach the cap) to the Draenei racial gives us a constant value of 65.58EP. So the Orc racial is worth more if given proper itemization but the Draenei racial is always useful without regard for specific itemization so they seem pretty equivalent.

As for Beast Slaying, 5% beats the living crap out of both of the other two racials mentioned. 1EP = 0.55dps and a good raiding shaman will average 6k dps so a 5% increase is worth 545EP. Real issue is that it isn't utilized often enough as they haven't given us many beast bosses in raiding. If every 10th boss was a beast then it would be worth just as much as the other racials. I haven't gotten to use my racial in raiding at all since there has never been itemization to support it just as Trolls haven't been given proper bosses to utilize their racial upon, so those also seem pretty equal.

Maybe the real solution is to ask Blizzard to include more Beast bosses in their instances. There is no reason why Razorscale, to name just one current boss, is a dragonkin instead of a Beast. Especially considering just about all the other hostile proto-drakes in Northrend are pretty much all classified as beasts anyway.



One other thing, this topic is awful. It's time to stop talking about racials since by the time anyone gets here they are already locked into a character and rerolling for a perceived racial advantage is just frightening. If we keep discussing "crappy" racial abilities instead of taking it to the WoW forums where the developers might take note of it and do something about it the moderators also might take note of it but not in any way we might find enjoyable.


Edited to remove any percieved antagonism directed at an individual instead of directed at continuing to discuss this topic in the thread.

I'm sure that there are several pages of fast/slow off hand discussion in the [Enhancement] 3.1 changes - new rules in place thread.
On the last pages of http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t41093-e...weapon_choices there are some other posts about Flametongue normalisation and the effects to fast off hands.

And to get results which are not dominated by RNG you have to run the sim but I doubt that you will get better Results with WF/WF than with WF/FT.


Frostbrand Weapon does not affect raid bosses, so there is no PVE viability of this enchant.