So I was kind of unsure after reading this but we use CL during hero after 3.2.2?

No - do not use CL during BL as you will be well under the GCD cap.

Regarding MP5, it certainly has some value, albeit low. If we look at a ring with 25 MP5 plus swapping our blue gems from SP/Stam to SP/MP5 then we are talking about 35MP5 or about 2500 mana during a 6 min fight. If we compare this to Bink's figure for 1 Runic mana potion = 34 DPS for 4300 mana then what we are talking about is 35MP5 = 20 DPS or 1MP5 = 0.6 DPS. It's not alot but if you have no other options at the time (and nobody else in the raid can make better use of it), why not take it?

Just extending this example further, it means that our water shield will be effectively worth 60 DPS due to the passive MP5 alone. However, this does not mean that it is another 60 DPS over the potential 150(ish) DPS gain from using CL - it means that we are able to benefit from a larger proportion of that 150 DPS gain.

I would like to point out, in that case, it is comparable with the value of crit.

Well, I would not necessarily go that far. On shorter fights where danger of running OOM is not an issue (and/or down time during fight allows enough mana regen - e.g. use of TS during movement phases), the value of mp5 still = 0. It only starts to become valuable when your rotation is hindered by a potential OOM situation. More maths will determine what this point is, but i would assume mp5 will end up averaging about the value of Int.

Which brings up point # 2, the value of Int may now increase beyond just the crit bonus it currently provides, as the larger mana pool will play a factor in DPS realization.

Crit is a little higher than that I believe - but also remember that the value of crit itself will now also increase due to the mana cost reduction that it provides. Also remeber that in terms of item budget, you would get 2.4 crit for every 1 MP5.

Since it is 3.2.2 now. and due to glyph changes. If you have 4p t9 like I do. What glyphs would I want to be using?
Lava / ToW / LB
or
FS / ToW / LB
or
FS / Lava / LB

I'm leaning toward lava/tow/lb.

The relative value of spellpower is increased in 3.2.2, particularly if you are making heavy use of CL on a given encounter. Lava will remain superior for single-target damage if you have the T9 4-piece bonus and the rest of your gear is good. However, I've been using the TOW glyph for heroic Anub'arak and the single-target damage even prior to 3.2.2 wasn't that far behind Lava. It's still pretty much a wash.

BTW, my rationale behind using the TOW glyph for heroic Anub is that we have a Warlock going Demonology for the fight. So we have DP and I'm making heavy use of both Healing Stream for P3 healing and fire totems for damage. The end result is a sustained 7700+ DPS all the way through P3, which is pretty cool and should be even higher this week.

What glyph is better to replace Glyph of Flame Shock for us scrubs still with t8? Glyph of Flametongue (+2% crit) or Glyph of Lava?

well it's a good thing you didn't read any of the last 2+ pages of discussion, or else you'd know that the Glyph of Lava is better hands down without having to ask.


Anyway, just a thought on the calculations of set bonus values. I think when we calculate the value of the 2t8 set bonus, we should give it a different value than the new flameshock glyph value. This may seem counterintuitive, but the dot-crit effect is pretty much guaranteed regardless of your gear, since it is an automatic glyph choice without 2t8. The only thing the 2t8 set bonus allows us to do is change the FS glyph for the Glyph of Lava. That means when we calculate the value of the 2t8 set bonus, it's value should be the same as the Glyph of Lava, since in practicality that's what it gives us.

Example:
Lets say I do 6k dps with the glyph of Flame shock. I then get my 2t8 set bonus with similar ilevel gear, so my dps would stay around 6k. However, I swap out the FS glyph for Lava, and i gain 90 dps from the glyph of lava, while maintaining FS dot crits.

Result: the net gain of 2t8 is the same as the dps gain you get from the glyph you swap in.

Nothing game changing, but changes how we look at the set bonus, and when some people decide to drop their 2t8 set bonus.

I read the last two pages and I got a completely different answer actually. It seemed the folks were saying that the periodic dmg from FS was going to be better in most cases than a small increase in SP for the 8s LvB. The only exception being if you already have the 2pc T8 bonus in which case it is worthless. I'd love to see a more precise numerical breakdown than the hearsay in the last couple pages of posts.

Ok, so I had to go back to page 7 for the first one, but still....

I'd sell my first born for a spreadsheet or updated RAWR that included an option for you to put down searing/magma(single target) in the rotation. We too run with a demo lock which means I get a lot more damage out of these totems and I too think I will be using ToW over Lava from napkin math (as well as getting slightly better mileage out of crit), but there are no credible sims that account for this growing trend amongst ele shaman. If you find one or create one - put it on these boards pls for the good of elementals everywhere.

Taking my equivalent stat values from RAWR, I get SP - 1.61, Haste - 1.27 & Crit - 1.00. So Crit is more comparable to haste in it's rating than to MP5 yet nobody says that crit is a comparable stat to haste. In fact, in percentage terms, it appears that MP5 is as comparable to crit as crit is to SP - ie. not really. And of course you would go for the MP5 ring - that is exactly what I was indicating.

I got a question on how to use CL in clearcasting state:
If I use it right after LvB and I stand about 30 yards awaay from the mob, will CL be 40% cheaper, assuming my LvB hit before CL ends casting or is it better to use CL as second cast after the first two LvB in my rotation?
After the third LvB I asume FS saves me the time I need for a smooth rotation?
info: 800 haste, totem of electrifying wind

OK, so I'm gonna say something that I know is gonna be unpopular, but I've tested it and I think there might be something to it. So I'm just throwing this out there.

I think on a single target CL has only an 11% chance to proc overload. And I think that that fact makes it better to cast LB instead of CL.

Heres why I think that.

I did a simple test twice, casting 100 chain lightnings, and counting the procs, the first instance out of 100 I got 9 overloads, the second I got 13.

I did the same with regular Lightning bolts, and got 32 overloads, and then 34.

What I think the game is doing, is assuming that your chain lightning is going to hit 3 targets, so its dividing the 33% proc chance between the potential 3 targets. I think you guys might find the same thing if you tried to test it yourself. Please let me know what you discover, I think the proc rate is a SIGNIFICANT bit lower on CL than LB.

Some folks (like me) are still using 2T8 + 2T9 and I don't see any numbers for using the Flametongue Weapon glyph as a 3rd glyph except way back on like page one where it was listed as equiv to Lava.
With the 1st and 2nd glyph being ToW & LB, and not needing FT glyph and not having have the 4T9 bonus to make Lava as good, and with 2T8 + 2T9 both enhancing FS, does the FtW glyph surpass Lava as the FtW glyph buffs FS, LB & CL by 2% vs the 10% for just Lava? Love to see some numbers for 2T8 + 2T9 glyphs, not just the 2T9 + 4T9.

Also there will be increased CC time and now that mana is more of an issue does this change anything?

I ran the test, and did not get the same results as you, although I didn't get 33%, I surely didn't get 11%.

My results were:

LB - 3 instances of 100 casts - Procs: 31, 36, 35

CL - 3 instances of 100 casts - Procs: 21, 28, 26

So either my RNG was really good, your RNG is really bad, or there is a legit bug. Either way I think more data needs to be gathered before we report it as a bug.

One thing you might want to try britishgrl, is glyph for chain lightning (increasing to 4 targets) and see if your proc rate drops to 7-8ish.

-V

Another way to test this is to go to the Stormwind testing dummies and chain off the Grandmaster dummy. You will be able to hit three targets every cast there so you can get a nice comparison to your single target test.

However, even if that turns out to be true (11% proc rate on CL) I'm not sure that would invalidate using CL. Its a decent DPS increase and using a LvB+CL rotation isn't that big of a deal on mana. I'd love to get the bug fixed if its a bug though.

The chance for lightning overload on Chain Lightning is calculated based upon the assumption that it will jump. Each link of CL has a chance to proc lightning overload.

This would make sense, as my testing was done on 2 mobs at once, thus why I would see procs in the 20%'s versus britshgrls 11% on a single target.

The ideal fix would be to calculate the jump amount first, and redistribute the percentage accordingly.

ie:
no jumps 33% proc
2 jumps 16.5% proc per jump
3 jumps 11% proc per jump

-V

Procs in this game are not based upon previous results and would likely require some major changes to the game for it to work like that. Each cast/jump calculates its own parameters of percent chance of the special proc happening. For example, if you are rolling 1-100 each roll is not affected by the previous roll and there is equal likelihood that you will get a 1, 45, or 78, the same is true for all procs in this game.

Beyond that, is it really likely that they will make this change? It would benefit elemental DPS, but you would begin to lose the distinction between lightning bolt and chain lightning, save the animation. Chain lightning is supposed to be an AOE spell and will generally be balanced as such.

It may be 11% per jump, but you all are forgetting that all three jumps can proc a LO in a single cast of CL.