Please excuse my english, but i hope i can point out what's confusing me.

1. Case: On a CL with triple hits if each jump has a 11% chance of triggering LO, there can only one proc each time, because, for example, if the first hit triggers LO, there can be no more LO proc on the 2nd and 3rd hit of the same CL. Therefore all in all the chance is 30% to proc LO with CL.
2. Case: There can be only one proc in 3 CL jumps and the chance is 12.6%, so all in all you're getting 33% LOs.

Is it the same with crits? I made hard use of the search function without getting information about this.

So youre saying that the extra 22% chance to proc another 3k-4k LB still isnt worth the extra cast time?

That just doesnt make sense to me...Lightning overload is a huge boost to dps, and 22% more of a chance to proc it seems to me like it would make it worth the extended cast time. They hit for the same on average, the only difference is the cast time, but one has 11% chance to cast an additional LB and the other has 33% chance. Its a third chance to proc a 3-4k damage increase, vs. a tenth chance pretty much.

If they hit for the same damage, then you could essentially ignore that they're separate spells and instead consider the benefit you would get from a generic "spell cast". It would come down to about an 20% increase in overall damage vs a 33% faster cast, in which case for absolute throughput, the faster cast wins out since they're both percentage increases to DPS.

So that means as long as i have no problems concerning my mana, sticking with CL on CD > CL after LvB?

Even in long fights like northrend beasts (25hero) i usually enter phase3 with about 30% mana left and still have a engineering-improved mana potion rdy (although i had to use TS on CD).

Yes, Kienluen, that's what Binkie is saying. The main reason he proposes use after LvB is because you have clearcasting up for certain. However, if you use CL on CD, it can be cast without clearcasting, which is 3x the mana cost of a regular lightning bolt. Basically, just check how much mana you have and adjust accordingly.

I haven't tested this yet but after reading the past few posts:

If you're standing max range and doing LB -> CL, wont CL go off before LB hits the target (and you wont get the mana reduction from clearcasting)?

Almost right, but the LO only does 50% of the damage of the main spell. So very roughly it's 22% x 50% = 11% extra damage against 25% faster cast (33% more casts/sec) - no contest. In practice, CL tends to hit for a little less than LB but is still higher DPS by around 10%.

With the faction champ's discussion on whether CL was considered AOE damage (and thus reduced), i encountered some strange results.

The first hit is NOT reduced. The Second and Third are. People seem to know this.


However, all three LO overload hits seem to be counted as AOE and reduced. I guess, instead of blizz counting them as a new cl cast (and thus cl 1 2 and 3 hits) they are counted as cl hit #'s 4 5 and 6, and thus all reduced.

I have a question:

After 3.2.2 Is glyph of lava or flame shock better after dropping your 2 piece 8.5?

I'm assuming flame shock is better until your tier9 4set...But I was just wondering if any math has been done to prove either or...any help would be greatly appreciated...

Also; Has anyone come to a conclusion about what the best totem is pre and post 4 set tier 9? Again, i'm assuming once you get your 4 set tier 9 that thunderfall will be the best totem...But I'm just wondering if any numbers have been crunched to prove one over the other. Thanks dudes!

1. The glyphs you should be using if your dropping two piece t8 (which means youre replacing it with 4pc t9) are Lightning Bolt, FS, and Lava.

2. Electrifying Wind.

This is interesting... in the latest version of Rawr, it is now recommending the Abyssal Rune as slightly higher DPS than the Illustration of the Dragon Soul. The Abyssal Rune isn't in the SEIC spreadsheet yet, though. Does anyone have any theorycrafting on this other than Rawr? I'm finding it hard to believe that the Rune wins out, but when I do some very basic number crunching (assuming that the proc is up immediately after 45 seconds, every time), based on my SEIC stat weights, I see that the Rune comes out at only ~295 DEP, compared to Illustration's 283. That's very close, and my "perfect world" assumption of the Rune's proc is obviously overestimating its value.

Perhaps Rawr is over-valuing haste compared to SEIC, or it's just a quirk in how it models the dps rotation.

So after the 4 piece t9, which glyphs should we be using? I'm using ToW, LB, LvB atm...but was wondering if I should be using FS glyph instead of one of those? Any suggestions?

FWIW, using SEIC I model out the Abyssal Rune at 248 DEP, versus Illustration of the Dragon Soul at 260 DEP. It is slightly above Embrace of the Spider and slightly below Scales of Fates. FWIW, SEIC seems to use 55s for trinket internal cooldown (seems fair for a 25% proc chance trinket), but the full SP value for IotDS (200sp).

If you are fighting trash, I would value the Abyssal Rune FAR above the Illustration of the Dragon Soul due to the need to stack the latter, while you are very likely to get a proc off Abyssal Rune in the first 8 seconds of combat. Likewise, fights with breaks (Northrend Beasts and Twin Valkyries come to mind in ToC) will probably push you over the edge from IotDS to Abyssal Rune. Shorter fights that end approximately at 15 + N*(55) seconds, will also favor the Abyssal rune as you will get an extra proc in.

You can further increase the value of the Abyssal Rune compared to the IotDS by convincing the guild leader to allow you to time heroism for ~50s into the fight (which is not atypical for our guild on fights that don't require us to save it for a particular burn phase, as everyone's proc trinkets should be ready, the entire raid should be up and the tank should have enough threat to survive it). I've not done the math on this last one but can say that an Abyssal Rune proc + Heroism + Potion of Wild is amazingly satisfying to watch when it comes to big numbers fast.

As you can probably tell, I'm a big fan of the Abyssal Rune at the moment. As a Resto main, it is very hard to get strong DPS trinkets from raid and this one blows the socks off of anything else that I have access to.

Apparently reading is hard. Glyph priority: LB>FS>ToW>LvB. Once you get 4pc t9, and 3600+ sp(Not sure on the exact figure, check with Bink) you should replace the ToW glyph for LvB.

Should just rename the thread "Elemental 3.2.2: Yes, go back to Glyph of Flame Shock with 4pc T9"

Or you could just cast a thunderstorm, redrop your totems, or cast a LHW to maintain your 10 stack of IotDS like I do. It's a good idea to ramp it up before the pull as well, so you get the full benefit right from the start (If I cast a LHW with full mana, I'll regen that mana I spent long before the stack falls off. Cast LHW on yourself every 8 seconds or so while your raid leader gives assignments to ramp it up without burning your mana).

On 25 normal Northrend Beasts this isn't such a big deal so I slack off a bit, but I always do it before the pull on 25 Heroic Beasts, Jaraxxus, or Thunderstorming while changing portals on Heroic Valkyrs, etc.

Are the Shiny Shards of the Flame a trinket option for eles?

250 SP - not much
96 mp5 - slightly usefull in some long fights maybe
They cause "Searing Flame" - anyone tested it yet?

250 SP between two trinkets is not impressive, even with the damage proc. Reign of the Unliving + basically any other trinket beats that pair.

Definitely not. [Embrace of the Spider] + [Eye of the Broodmother] are both easy to obtain and much for better than those two trinkets (as examples :P. The [Abyssal Rune] and [Sundial of the Exiled] are also better, and easily obtained.)

Looking on the MMO database for the spell name only gave me "Inflicts Fire damage to an enemy." Not much in the ways of a damage value. But as far as I can tell, unless the proc did a great amount of damage to make up for otherwise lacking stats the only practical use I see for this trinket set would be a Human Priest in PvP who can afford both trinket slots and could make use of the Heal and Damage portion of the set proc though the likelihood of the two procs sharing the same ICD lead me to believe that only bad players will be putting these items to any use over real trinkets.

I just tested it on a target dummy, fore times each, and with the 4pc t9, im getting more dps out of, these glyphs
ToW
LB
LvB
my question is, did bink re-do the math due to the glyph change, i check with rawr first and it came up with the same as i did testing.
i acept the you guys are smart, and probably the best in the game, but ive read this forum from start to last and ether ive missed something, or my crit isnt high enough, but with my current gear, this looks like the best choice for me, or am i doing something wrong?

My guess would be that because you're using Thunder Fall totem, it's increasing the value of your lava burst glyph but giving you overall lower DPS then if you were using the correct totem.