You will only start dropping Searing/Magma/Fire Elemental Totems when a) there is another elemental shaman in the group, in which case one of you should still be dropping ToW or b) you run with a Demo Warlock with Demonic Pact. Otherwise, you will still be dropping ToW.
Demo lock for spell power yes, but the boomkin aura crit buff "replaces" Elemental Oath, not ToW (ToW is crit on mobs being in range of totem while boomkin/e-oath is 5% crit to players).
The crit part of ToW can be replaced by either "Heart of the Crusader" which is a retribution pala talent that applies the effect on the targets of their judgements, or by "Master Poisoner", a mutilate rogue talent that applies the effect to targets they have poisoned.
As for Glyph of ToW, if you got a replacement for ToW allowing you to drop Searing Totem, you can drop ToW then Searing, the glyph buff will stay up for 5 minutes even if your totem isn't up.
There is no code left from the old non glyphed calculation.
However haste being valued so low is indeed a strange behavior, because with my tests it is usually valued higher as or close to spell power.
I checked your char on the armory and it seems you are just at a haste point where the relative stat values show misleading information.
The two biggest factors affecting my crit in relative stat values are the glyph of FS and the glyph of Lava. If I have FS and no Lava, then Haste is almost = SP. As soon as I change out one of those, things start to get screwed up. It may be because of of a particular haste rating I have, but I think there's something more to it relating to my glyph choices.
ToW, FS, LB
vs. LB, ToW, Lava
No gear changes, just glyphs. Theoretically, the Glyph of Lava should reduce the value of crit, and the Glyph of Flame Shock should increase its value, but this is exactly the opposite from what is happening.
Ok, this might be a really dumb question.
But suppose you want to be the optimal monster, you want to be all that you can be:
What race would be best for ele shammy?
I guess this is could be more opinion based, but there are so many theory-crafters out there that know the numbers. And since faction changing has come up, what faction/race would reflect the best stats through racials for ele shammying?!
I was just curious, since I know each race has their niches. I just moved from a horde tauren shaman (74) to alliance to lvl her before I put her back as horde. I likes being a cow for PVP (stomp-n-stun), but the troll and orc have their racials that seem pretty good for PVE.
[Before anyone says anything, yes I do have more than one shaman... and I am on crack, sometimes, I think.]
Ok, this might be a really dumb question.
But suppose you want to be the optimal monster, you want to be all that you can be:
What race would be best for ele shammy?
I guess this is could be more opinion based, but there are so many theory-crafters out there that know the numbers. And since faction changing has come up, what faction/race would reflect the best stats through racials for ele shammying?!
I was just curious, since I know each race has their niches. I just moved from a horde tauren shaman (74) to alliance to lvl her before I put her back as horde. I likes being a cow for PVP (stomp-n-stun), but the troll and orc have their racials that seem pretty good for PVE.
[Before anyone says anything, yes I do have more than one shaman... and I am on crack, sometimes, I think.]
If you open SEIC, bink list out the value of each racial, with troll slightly ahead of draenei.
If you hold off until the next expansion that might change. The dwarf racial won't do anything for alliance shaman However, Goblin and worgen will both have nice ones. You'll get 1% cast speed as a goblin and the rocket belt damage (anyone know the damage this will deal and if it scales like gift of the naruu?) Worgen get a 1% damage buff.
I don't pvp so I personally don't take into account what will be good there.
It's pointless to speculate about Cataclysm racials, considering that Blizzard has said they are revamping everyone's racials and Worgen and Goblin are the only "finished" ones that have been released.
No gear changes, just glyphs. Theoretically, the Glyph of Lava should reduce the value of crit, and the Glyph of Flame Shock should increase its value, but this is exactly the opposite from what is happening.
Lava should increase the value of Spellpower and Haste (to a lesser extent). Flame Shock should increase the value of Spellpower and Crit. There may be an issue if the Rawr rotation ends up with the FS dot being clipped, but I don't think that is happening.
Fire Nova Totem: This totem has been replaced with a new spell, Fire Nova, which is available at the same ranks as the old Fire Nova Totem. Existing characters will automatically learn this new spell in place of the totem. With a Fire Totem active, shamans will be able to use Fire Nova (fire magic) to emit the same area-of-effect damage as the old Fire Nova Totem from the active Fire Totem, not consuming the totem in the process. Fire Nova will activate a 1.5-second global cooldown when used and has a 10-second spell cooldown. The caster must be within 30 yards of the totem to use this ability, but does not need to be within line of sight of the totem.
wonder how much damage this will do, most likely just for AoE, but still
That's an incredibly clunky fix to something I don't know anyone was expecting to fix. When was the last time anyone thought about fire nova totem? With the bump in scaling to chain lightning, I really thought the only fix required for elemental AE damage was the ability to "throw" your magma totem.
Oh, and make ToW inherent to all fire totems. Maybe they think that's what this is accomplishing. Sort of.
Glyphed and talented fire nova, magma totem, and chain lighting is going to be a ton of AE damage.
EDIT: Ok, not that clunky. I misread, thought it consumed the fire totem like the old spell. 3s fire nova is going to be a ton of damage. Still, a big change out of nowhere that doesn't really do much(unless they remove magma totem).
This may not be a raiding change (although being able to get it to a 3(!) second cooldown may belay that . . . ) but a levelling one, since all their other changes so far seem to be smoothing out the pre level 15 curve.
I certainly know the idea of fire nova totem was much nicer than the reality when I started playing(although this was pre-BC).
It would be a great DPS buff for us if they had chosen Searing to combine with other fire totems instead of nova, because any shift in boss positioning would mean having to run in again to drop ToW in order to gain from this change on any single target fight. Essentially it's a great buff for AoE, but for any fight in ToC (besides maybe Twin Valkyr or Anub, if nothing went wrong) it's not too great.
This doesn't belong in the 3.3 thread because it doesn't pertain to 3.3, but I think this is a pretty good demonstration of our capabilities in 3.2.2: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
I used sub-optimal glyphing (TOW instead of Lava since I knew we'd do Anub later) for Vezax and Yogg, had the wrong relic equipped for most of Yogg (Totem of Hex left over from Vezax) and accidentally killed my Fire Elemental on Anub by fat-fingering Magma Totem. The numbers remain pretty high and I'm pleased with the results.
This doesn't belong in the 3.3 thread because it doesn't pertain to 3.3, but I think this is a pretty good demonstration of our capabilities in 3.2.2: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
I used sub-optimal glyphing (TOW instead of Lava since I knew we'd do Anub later) for Vezax and Yogg, had the wrong relic equipped for most of Yogg (Totem of Hex left over from Vezax) and accidentally killed my Fire Elemental on Anub by fat-fingering Magma Totem. The numbers remain pretty high and I'm pleased with the results.
It seems recently I've scaled up a lot in 3.2 which is surprising considering I didn't think we'd end up scaling well in Coliseum. Was it all that "fix" patch 3.2.2 that made us do a lot more? Or just the Tier9 4-piece being worth more than expected (World of Logs parse put my Average Crit LvB at 16668 over an Ulduar clear).
On that clear I ended up being top5 DPS normally(2nd on IC was surprising... 9330dps which is barely off top20 wowmeteronline recordings for that fight for all DPS) when in 3.1 I was usually always in the bottom 3-5 except for gimmick fights like Hodir/Vezax.
I'd say for sure its worth having more than 1 Elemental Shaman now whereas in 3.1 it seemed detrimental having more than one. That means we have hope?! instead of merely being buff-bots hehe. I hope that we follow this pattern into Icecrown.
They still don't do as much damage or scale as well as hunters, mages, rogues, or warlocks. So guilds that currently run with 2 may not leave one out, most guilds won't go out of their way to recruit more than 1.
Anub isn't a great example because there isn't a realistic way to get the crit debuff on the burrowers and in that parse only 10% of the damage done to them can't crit and about another 10% was less than 200% crit mod. The rest is over 200% and it averages out to ToW's crit alone providing over 750k increase in damage done by the raid versus the 726k personal damage done by fire totems (yes it's dumb). If you factor in the 14 seconds of lost cast time as well, it pushes the gap farther to it being something around 130k more raid damage to use ToW over damage fire totems. Unless the raid is running with a lot of shadow priests and moonkin (who are about the only ones with 150% crit on aoe), it's not going to work out to use a totem other than ToW once you break 3 targets without a 3% crit debuff.
We've always been a strong bring for the Vezax and Yogg. I'm glad to see the flameshock changes taking an effect. There are a lot of instances there where you can pull meaningful flameshocks on multiple targets (but not too many too close or the AoE'rs will win!). Our damage is still comparable to shadow priests and moonkins on a majority of encounters. We pull out ahead on Anub if it's setup in a manner that allows a consistent and complete use of chain lightning. The 3% aoe crit debuff rarely gets a chance to shine and it's a bit invisible in it's benefit (15+ people benefiting from 3% bonus crit adds up). The question then becomes is moonkin + demo lock optimal or do you want shadow priest + elemental shaman for optimizing caster hybrids in an aoe encounter. It's closer than it seems on paper and can go either way depending on encounter mechanics, possible replenishment compromises, player skill, and other factors.
Anub isn't a great example because there isn't a realistic way to get the crit debuff on the burrowers and in that parse only 10% of the damage done to them can't crit and about another 10% was less than 200% crit mod. The rest is over 200% and it averages out to ToW's crit alone providing over 750k increase in damage done by the raid versus the 726k personal damage done by fire totems (yes it's dumb). If you factor in the 14 seconds of lost cast time as well, it pushes the gap farther to it being something around 130k more raid damage to use ToW over damage fire totems. Unless the raid is running with a lot of shadow priests and moonkin (who are about the only ones with 150% crit on aoe), it's not going to work out to use a totem other than ToW once you break 3 targets without a 3% crit debuff.
We've always been a strong bring for the Vezax and Yogg. I'm glad to see the flameshock changes taking an effect. There are a lot of instances there where you can pull meaningful flameshocks on multiple targets (but not too many too close or the AoE'rs will win!). Our damage is still comparable to shadow priests and moonkins on a majority of encounters. We pull out ahead on Anub if it's setup in a manner that allows a consistent and complete use of chain lightning. The 3% aoe crit debuff rarely gets a chance to shine and it's a bit invisible in it's benefit (15+ people benefiting from 3% bonus crit adds up). The question then becomes is moonkin + demo lock optimal or do you want shadow priest + elemental shaman for optimizing caster hybrids in an aoe encounter. It's closer than it seems on paper and can go either way depending on encounter mechanics, possible replenishment compromises, player skill, and other factors.
While there wasn't one in that parse, a mutilate rogue would also bring the AoE 3% crit debuff effect, so you might want to consider that as well. I'm not sure exactly where mutilate stands compared to combat now but I would imagine it's a lot closer with the Master Poisoner buff, Envenom coefficient buff, and ArPen nerf.
I just started playing again, after a bit of a study break (since a few weeks before 3.2 came out). Which means I'm still rocking my t8.5, along with that awesome 4piece.
From what I've been reading, the changes to CL make it an awesome spell to use even on single targets. But since I'm still using 4piece 8.5 which only benefits from LB and not cl, I'm wondering if it has been figured out whether I should stick to a LB only rotation or throw as many CLs in there too.
/edit
Main reason, I'm asking is that I just installed RAWR and plugged in my character info. Aparantly raid buffed I should be holding a constant 10k dps which seems EXTREME.
The rotation it was giving me was fs lvb 6xlb, followed by something else (armory is currently down and I didnt save my sheet).
Now, not too sure how RAWR is meant to work, but I'm assuming it calculates the best rotation out of a couple of pre-defined rotations. But eitherway, the constant dps it lists for me, is nothing like I achieve in game.
From what I've been reading, the changes to CL make it an awesome spell to use even on single targets. But since I'm still using 4piece 8.5 which only benefits from LB and not cl, I'm wondering if it has been figured out whether I should stick to a LB only rotation or throw as many CLs in there too.
Lightning Bolt scales better with spellpower than any of ele's other spells, so for single target fights you're best off sticking with that one spell.
If there's even one other mob up, I think the splash damage from CL makes it worth weaving, but that may vary based on spellpower levels as well.
Lightning Bolt scales better with spellpower than any of ele's other spells, so for single target fights you're best off sticking with that one spell.
Not quite. Flame Shock and Lava Burst with appropriate glyphs and set bonuses both gain more of a bonus from your spellpower than LB - not that it's relevant to their worth for DPS.
Even with its lower co-efficient, Chain Lightning is still higher DPSC than LB on a single target. Whether it's worth using or not on a single target depends on whether you consider a marginal DPS boost (Bink showed it to be ~50 DPS used after LvB) to be worth the greatly inflated mana usage and potential difficulties fitting it into your rotation.
[e] Though I guess if you count LO then LB's benefit from spellpower is effectively 103.16%.
If there's even one other mob up, I think the splash damage from CL makes it worth weaving, but that may vary based on spellpower levels as well.
Any time that there's an extra mob up in range, I personally use CL. While with 2 targets, the total damage can be similar to one LB, each hit is an extra chance to proc LO. And I'm sure others will agree with me, there's nothing like seeing LO proc off CL in a group with 3+. Especially if it procs more than once. Now if only there was an addon to fire off Emporer Palpatine quotes when that happens......
Depending on if you are in a raid situation or in a Heroic Dungeon situation the use of CL or LB would vary imo. Most often then not you'll have multiple enemies to fight like in a Heroic for example. With my experience I can only use CL once, maybe twice while spamming LB inbetween because the other group members have their AoE abilities as well so by the time target 1 is dead targets 2 and 3 are pretty low too. So my guess would be just to finish them off with LB since LB is stronger with more spell power than CL. . . or would the extra CL cast be more beneficial?
10/01/09, 1:10 PM
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