Thunderfall is still not useful, but the Lava breakeven point drops down to an attainable 3.2k spellpower (which most of us will be at with T8).

"Sets:
Shaman T9 Elemental 2P Bonus (Flame Shock) - Increases the duration of your Flame Shock spell by 9.0 sec.
Shaman T9 Elemental 4P Bonus (Lava Burst) - Increases the damage done by your Lava Burst spell by 20%.

Relic:
Shaman T9 Elemental Relic (Lightning Bolt) (Class: Shaman) -- Each time you cast Lightning Bolt, you have a chance to gain 200 haste rating for 12 sec."



One question I am curious about is: how will our rotation change in 3.2 to reflect the 2 pc. t9 (9 extra seconds on Flame Shock), and will having the new Shaman T9 Elemental Relic play any role in this. I remember seeing somewhere on EJ that in order to add an extra LB to our rotation, to get as little downtime as possible in between casts, the next amount of haste shamans would need would be around 800 or so. With the current gear, this number is not very feasible. But, if the new Relic does indeed have close to a 100% uptime, it would be possible to achieve around 800 haste from gear + totems + boomkin. The 9 seconds added onto Flame Shock will probably also change our rotation, allowing us to get in another round of LBs and a LvB; however, yet again, this would probably be a priority-based rotation like we already have, which is somewhat based around the amount of haste we shamans have.

Elemental shamans do not have a fixed rotation, we use a priority system similar to shadow priests. I'm not quite sure how having additional haste effects a priority at all - at no attainable point will pure lightning bolt spam overtake the current priority of Flame Shock Debuff > Lava Burst > Lightning Bolt (With Chain Lightning used as needed, see TTT)

Being able to cast more or less lightning bolts in any given amount of time simply means you cast more as needed, until another higher priority spell should be cast.

As already mentioned in this thread, the change is that you save one GCD every 54th second. The damage boost will thus be the difference between whatever spell you can squeeze in and the direct damage output of a Flame Shock. Roughly speaking, the 2p bonus is currently something like 55 DPS increase with current Ulduar gear. Worth to note, there might be a bunch of hidden benifits here, like less clipping of the Flame Shock DoT.

Addendum:
Corrected the DPS with the number provided by Binkenstein below. I realized that I did a fundamental fault that I'm quite ashamed to admit. I exchanged the Flame Shock with a Lightning Bolt, without compensating for the longer cast time. I blame the lack of coffee.

It's more around 55 dps.

This is probably a stupid question but I have to ask it. Is it unrealistic to want ToW combined with fire dps totems (searing and magma)? My DPS is fine when using dps totems but weak when I buff the raid with ToW.

I agree that Totem of Wrath's implementation is unfortunate to say the least; when I joined a new raid group with an existing elemental shaman, that shaman was immediately wowed by my dps, and I explained to him it was because I didn't have to drop Wrath and was therefore squeezing out an extra 500 with searing/magma.

I really do hope they take the time to make Totem of Wrath a more intelligent talent point, rather than one that obsoletes a significant chunk of our spellbook. ie. make the talent give the "of Wrath" aura to all fire totems.

Fire totems would also ideally get an overhaul to make them more useful in raids. Even on fights where we run 2 Ele Shamans (Vezax, Hodir) I don't use an offensive/damaging totem because it's just too much of a pain to keep it within 20 yards of the boss and active.

Would be nice if they gave us a 3-point imp Searing Totem in 1-2nd tier elemental that would bring its range/spell power coefficient up 33/66/100% (roughly), making it the ele go-to totem and have the ToW effect proc off fire spells.

I digress though as this is not the "beg for class changes on a forum blizz doesn't read" thread.

I'm just now really wondering where the SP break-even is for

GToW + ToH
v.
GoL + Thunderfall

assuming 4pc T9, given the emphasis change from LB in T8.

BRB Math.

We all agree that something should be done, but I'd refrain from "wish listing" here.

I've already posted my glyph/relic observations in my blog, but basically Thunderfall = useless, Lava is better only with the 4pc bonus.

Can some one make a breakdown for the new troll berserking (20% haste at all times) vs the orc blood fury?
Which is better for ele ?

How does that make sense? You assume that you have 520 haste rating at the beginning and that with berserking you add 130 haste rating. Your calculs should use 130 haste rating gained and not your total to calculate how much DPS you gain from the ability. I really think the orc racial is better, especially since you gain an actual 179.3 sp on lightning bolt and 195,6 on Lava Burst. You'd have to explain to me how you did your maths here.

As far as i know blood fury gives 163 spell power at 80 lvl for 15 sec with 2 min cooldown.
And i don't think LB has more than 100+% coeff.

are you adding total item stats of just base shaman stats while compering blood fury and berserking?i mean having at least 500+ haste 2500+ sp or base stats.

In ulduar most cases caster dps are mobile.so
we have
*Bloodlust
*Elemental Mastery
*Haste or sp/crit pot
and
blood fury or berserk

may be on paper with some maths we can find which one is better but fights,reflexes and playing styles are not same for everyone.Becouse of that there will be never a fixed rotation and timings for spell that have long cds.

in ulduar we can find good places in dps meters cos of buffs that come from most boss fights.as playing a shaman makes me more smarter that other casters,if i want to catch them in dps meters i must .
In 3.2 if shamans will not take some buffs i think it will be our last moths for good days. they still trying to fix pvp

I thought the consensus was do not go over 550 haste because of the elemental rotation? Are you saying that shamans should focus on hit>sp>haste even if it takes you to 650+ haste?

There is no haste cap, soft or otherwise, just some weird fixation that some shaman have for fitting in 5 LBs in the first half of their rotation irrespective of what it does to the second half and irrespective of the fact that it is unsustainable in mobile fights. There has certainly been no consensus (or even suggestion as far as I can remember) on these boards that shaman should stop gathering haste at 550. Indeed, the numbers presented show continual DPS increases far beyond that level.

It's not so much an aversion to high levels of haste, it's mostly that spellpower is the best single stat once you're hit capped and there's just not a huge amount of haste on the gear most Shamans find themselves using. Also, the T8 set bonuses (not to mention several mechanics in Ulduar fights) make crit more valuable so there's not the same incentive to avoid crit.

Honestly, I think the typical set of high-end raiding Elemental gear just happens to sit around the mid-500s for haste rating. I'm fully aware that there's no cap on haste, and I have about the same amount.

I don't think there is the same aversion to haste procs as there was during Naxx. There, there was a very clear reason for it and that was because, due to the stat levels and set bonuses at the time, it was important to maximise LvB casts and the best way of doing this was to find the rotation best suited to your haste rating (possibly including CL) and stick to it. Haste procs, obviously made this far more difficult. With Ulduar stats, the new set bonuses and the change to LO, LB has gained ground on LvB (though still behind) and CL has dropped out of the picture completely. Therefore, people do not talk about maintaining a 'tight rotation' in the same way they did in 3.0 (though it is still important of course) they just fill up the gap with LBs, however many that might take.

Like Ghando says though, you really need to go out of your way a bit to get haste ratings significantly over 550-600 and the sacrifice to get there is simply not worth it. Most Shaman here probably have around 30% crit and 18k health too but it doesn't mean they are targetting it or using it as a cap - it's just where the gear has ended up putting them whilst they have been focussing on getting SP gear. Same with the 550 haste rating.

I don't see your problem...but i'll try to explain whats the reason behing my calculation.

Troll: 650[haste]/(180[cd]/10[duration])*1,2 [scaling factor]~ 44 Dps

650hasterating ~ 20% haste which berserking is worth. (maybe you misunderstood this skill ... it doesn't increase your hasterating value by 20%. It's like icy veins, just a 20% bloodlust)
Now I divided this value by cooldown/duration to simulate an overall buff and multiplyed it by its scaling factor to receive a total dps number.

Orc: 163[spell]/(120[cd]/15[duration])*1,6 [scaling factor]~ 33 Dps

Same way here. (It was just a spontaneous calculation, so i missed the spellfactor by 0.2

Moreover berserking is on the same cd as elemental mastery, so you can always use both skills together in longer fights, as i already mentioned.


@ the others:
No rotation
No magic statvalues
No matter what the average shaman has

Just believe in Binkensteins theoriecrafting^^

Only issue that may occur which has nothing to do with your math really is the duration of the fight. It could possibly push for orc being better depending on the length.

But it isn't mine.

Throwing some values together, and accounting for the fact that haste buffs multiply rather than add, Berserking:Blood Fury is more 2:1 rather than the 4:3 ratio you're suggesting. That said, we're talking ~30 dps difference here, and this isn't taking into account buff conjunction for BF, nor reducing Berserkings figures based on the 50% haste cap for FS/LvB, so it's not impossible that the figures are what you're suggesting.

In the long run, I think it's pretty much pointless to talk/discuss/argue about which racial bonus is better, partially because it's a very very minor difference, partially because the Draenei hit aura beats both hands down, and partially because, no matter how you try, I will never ever roll a troll if I can avoid it.

It seems that the two piece bonus from T9 would go great with the FS glyph + two piece bonus from T8, giving more room for critical ticks.

Any thoughts on how that itemization would stack vs. full T9?