[Elemental] Patch 3.2 - Page 2

Souai · 06/24/09, 6:11 PM

The legs have crit over haste. They're probably not going to be the best source of hit available.

Both bonuses don't look very appealing to me. There are a few situations where an extension of flame shock's duration can be helpful and a significant dps increase but in the vast majority of available content it feels lackluster. If we want to take advantage of it in single target movement fights we'll be restricted to frost shock and earth shock's new range of 25 yards. I see it being a boon in encounters where we're expected to assist in interrupts. It is also beneficial in fights where we have multiple targets for dps that live more than 18 seconds. It's not the type of bonus that's easy to slap a dps number to. It is probably at its weakest for spreadsheet simulations.

I haven't seen anything about the four piece bonus that doesn't involve increasing damage by seconds. To equate to our current bonus provided by our tier eight, I think it would have to be at least a 12% straight increase to damage done by Lava Burst. Too little of our damage comes from the ability currently, even in the best of situations. It doesn't seem like a great target for a set bonus, as it's damage per cast may get ugly for battleground style pvp if they go that route.

The item level jump was big enough to the heroic gear to strip our tier 8. Going from tier 8.25 helm to the 258 tier 9 helm is going to be at least 150 dps using ilvl 245 stat weights.

The ilvl 232's, however, are only going to be 31 dps better a piece or so, and will probably be much more situational than straight upgrades. I can't imagine breaking our current set for the 10 man version unless the encounter specifically favors long duration flame shocks.

I don't think there is a way to strike a balance between providing enough of a dot duration increase that it's meaningful in pve and at the same time not fun destroying in pvp.

Dra · 06/24/09, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by kraken_hs

Relic
So, unless the uptime on this totem is close to 100%, which seems unlikely, this totem looks like it will sit around unused.

From a short test on training dummies it does seem to have 100% uptime. It has a high proc chance (25% or so) and no internal cooldown.

Borninexile · 06/24/09, 11:34 PM

I can get you some numbers after i finish raiding tonight, but it is 6 seconds added onto flame shock and there is actually a very large jump in damage for lava burst, somewhere in the vicinity of, top end damage on the tool tip goes up to 1900. I can try and get some screenshots after my raid but it is a VERY large jump.

On target dummies in 4pc T9 with Thunderfall totem my lava bursts were critting for no less than 13,500.

daia · 06/25/09, 6:56 AM

The set bonuses are +6 seconds on Flame Shock and +304 damage on Lava Burst.

The totem is very very close to 100% uptime. With minimal testing it's easily past the threshold to having it surpass ye olde totem.

sleepcontrol · 06/25/09, 9:32 PM

Originally Posted by daia

The set bonuses are +6 seconds on Flame Shock and +304 damage on Lava Burst.

The totem is very very close to 100% uptime. With minimal testing it's easily past the threshold to having it surpass ye olde totem.

Where did "+304" come from? On the PTR, is it 20% or +304 damage?

Also, has anyone looked into the professions? Is Tailoring still overpowered compared to everything else?

tufy · 06/26/09, 3:10 AM

Originally Posted by sleepcontrol

Also, has anyone looked into the professions? Is Tailoring still overpowered compared to everything else?

Something I'm not certain about at this point is Engineering. At my current gear, the hand-mounted pyro rocket alone adds about 52 dps (it gains on spell crit, with my gear, it has 45% crit chance), which equals about 39 spellpower according to Bink's spreadsheet. Projecting this crit rate to the new rockets, I'll be getting 61 dps from the new boosted pyro (btw., yes, the tooltip is still wrong. It can be launched once every 45 seconds, not once every minute), equaling roughly 46 spellpower. Again, fairly close to all new professions (which end up at 48). EXCEPT, at this point, I haven't counted back enchant boost (about 9 spellpower gain over current bis 23 haste) or bombs (about 22 dps = 16.78 spellpower) yet.

Thus, in my honest opinion, Engineering is our "sleeping beauty" here. It can be very powerful when used properly, but a player has to invest into it (through using abilities or paying for bomb mats). Personally I've been using Engineering for about a month now and it works great, constantly giving me predictable dps boost (about 1.5% from pyro rocket, about 0.7% from bombs, latter number can cross 1% if there's targets to AoE; note, however, that I'm usually not chaining bombs, so 1% could be a rule on single target too). Too bad EJ doesn't have a proper profession subforum, that thread in general discussion is too cluttered for coherent dps testing with professions...

*****

On a more shaman related topic, that Lava Burst picture above is interesting. According to wowhead's PTR site, Lava Burst's tooltip wasn't changed, so top damage remains 1518. If 2271 is on Borninexile's tooltip and if he uses a regular build, then we can do some calculations:

2271 / ((1 + concussion + call of flame) * (1 + 4pc T9) = 1705; 1705 - 1518 = 187

Hm, where did this number come from? Next try

2271 / (1 + concussion + call of flame + 4pc T9) = 1733; 1733 - 1518 = 215

Interestingly, this number is equal to Thunderfall totem's boost, but I wasn't aware it shows up on the tooltip?

Just for the kicks, let's try our friend daia above who claims that 4pc T9 adds 304 spellpower:

(2271 / (1 + concussion + call of flame)) - 304 = 1742; 1742 - 1518 = 224

Again, not fitting expectations.

Curious. So, does Thunderfall pop up on tooltip (I'm sorry, can't check myself right now, as I'm not at my gaming PC), or am I missing something?

EDIT: I've checked it ingame, Thunderfall does indeed pop up on tooltip, specifically it gives me 239 extra damage per tooltip, which would equal 215 * (1 + concussion + call of flame).

This suggests that the formula is:

(1518 + 215) * (1 + concussion + call of flame + 4pc T9) = 2270.23

Let's test it with our low number as well:

(1192 + 215) * (1 + concussion + call of flame + 4pc T9) = 1843.17

It fits perfectly.

Binkenstein · 06/26/09, 5:11 AM

Yes, Thunderfall does affect the tooltip.

Without: 1323-1685
With: 1561-1924

Incidentally, the difference is Thunderfall*1.11, which is the Concussion + Call of Fire bonus (need to add it to my spreadsheet).

On a different subject, I'm using a blogspot blog to rebuild the TTT entry in bite size chunks, and was wondering if anyone wants to assist in said subject (especially with 3.2 on the way). That way we can have a bigger better guide ready to go when 3.2 hits + a quick important bits post on my blog.

Binkenstein · 06/29/09, 6:35 PM

# Item - Shaman T9 Elemental 2P Bonus (Flame Shock) - Increases the duration of your Flame Shock spell by 9.0 sec.
# Item - Shaman T9 Elemental 4P Bonus (Lava Burst) - Increases the damage done by your Lava Burst spell by 20%.

New set bonus figures. Working on EP figures atm.

daia · 06/29/09, 8:17 PM

nevermind, misread tooltip!

Flau · 06/30/09, 6:16 AM

The question is if the T9 4P Bonus will improve the viability of Totem of thunderfall and/or glyph of Lava and by how much. If the tooltip is right the bonus will affect both of them.
Perhaps its an interesting alternative for totem of hex/the new haste totem and/or glyph of totem of wrath

Binkenstein · 06/30/09, 7:51 AM

Thunderfall is still not useful, but the Lava breakeven point drops down to an attainable 3.2k spellpower (which most of us will be at with T8).

Gamesetmatch · 06/30/09, 4:15 PM

"Sets:
Shaman T9 Elemental 2P Bonus (Flame Shock) - Increases the duration of your Flame Shock spell by 9.0 sec.
Shaman T9 Elemental 4P Bonus (Lava Burst) - Increases the damage done by your Lava Burst spell by 20%.

Relic:
Shaman T9 Elemental Relic (Lightning Bolt) (Class: Shaman) -- Each time you cast Lightning Bolt, you have a chance to gain 200 haste rating for 12 sec."

One question I am curious about is: how will our rotation change in 3.2 to reflect the 2 pc. t9 (9 extra seconds on Flame Shock), and will having the new Shaman T9 Elemental Relic play any role in this. I remember seeing somewhere on EJ that in order to add an extra LB to our rotation, to get as little downtime as possible in between casts, the next amount of haste shamans would need would be around 800 or so. With the current gear, this number is not very feasible. But, if the new Relic does indeed have close to a 100% uptime, it would be possible to achieve around 800 haste from gear + totems + boomkin. The 9 seconds added onto Flame Shock will probably also change our rotation, allowing us to get in another round of LBs and a LvB; however, yet again, this would probably be a priority-based rotation like we already have, which is somewhat based around the amount of haste we shamans have.

Pretzle · 06/30/09, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gamesetmatch

One question I am curious about is: how will our rotation change in 3.2 to reflect the 2 pc.

...

Elemental shamans do not have a fixed rotation, we use a priority system similar to shadow priests. I'm not quite sure how having additional haste effects a priority at all - at no attainable point will pure lightning bolt spam overtake the current priority of Flame Shock Debuff > Lava Burst > Lightning Bolt (With Chain Lightning used as needed, see TTT)

Being able to cast more or less lightning bolts in any given amount of time simply means you cast more as needed, until another higher priority spell should be cast.

Lucitron · 07/01/09, 12:22 AM

The 9 seconds added onto Flame Shock will probably also change our rotation, allowing us to get in another round of LBs and a LvB; however, yet again, this would probably be a priority-based rotation like we already have, which is somewhat based around the amount of haste we shamans have.

As already mentioned in this thread, the change is that you save one GCD every 54th second. The damage boost will thus be the difference between whatever spell you can squeeze in and the direct damage output of a Flame Shock. Roughly speaking, the 2p bonus is currently something like 55 DPS increase with current Ulduar gear. Worth to note, there might be a bunch of hidden benifits here, like less clipping of the Flame Shock DoT.

Addendum:
Corrected the DPS with the number provided by Binkenstein below. I realized that I did a fundamental fault that I'm quite ashamed to admit. I exchanged the Flame Shock with a Lightning Bolt, without compensating for the longer cast time. I blame the lack of coffee.

Binkenstein · 07/01/09, 1:07 AM

Originally Posted by Lucitron

As already mentioned in this thread, the change is that you save one GCD every 54th second. The damage boost will thus be the difference between whatever spell you can squeeze in and the direct damage output of a Flame Shock. Roughly speaking, the 2p bonus is currently something like 75 DPS increase with current Ulduar gear. Worth to note, there might be a bunch of hidden benifits here, like less clipping of the Flame Shock DoT.

It's more around 55 dps.