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Old 09/26/09, 2:57 PM   #316
Boondok
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Crushridge
Originally Posted by Whamo View Post
So after the 4 piece t9, which glyphs should we be using? I'm using ToW, LB, LvB atm...but was wondering if I should be using FS glyph instead of one of those? Any suggestions?
Apparently reading is hard. Glyph priority: LB>FS>ToW>LvB. Once you get 4pc t9, and 3600+ sp(Not sure on the exact figure, check with Bink) you should replace the ToW glyph for LvB.

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Old 09/26/09, 3:26 PM   #317
orion121
Piston Honda
 
Troll Shaman
 
Eredar
Should just rename the thread "Elemental 3.2.2: Yes, go back to Glyph of Flame Shock with 4pc T9"

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Old 09/26/09, 5:34 PM   #318
-Abakus-
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Jarin View Post
...Likewise, fights with breaks (Northrend Beasts and Twin Valkyries come to mind in ToC) will probably push you over the edge from IotDS to Abyssal Rune.
Or you could just cast a thunderstorm, redrop your totems, or cast a LHW to maintain your 10 stack of IotDS like I do. It's a good idea to ramp it up before the pull as well, so you get the full benefit right from the start (If I cast a LHW with full mana, I'll regen that mana I spent long before the stack falls off. Cast LHW on yourself every 8 seconds or so while your raid leader gives assignments to ramp it up without burning your mana).

On 25 normal Northrend Beasts this isn't such a big deal so I slack off a bit, but I always do it before the pull on 25 Heroic Beasts, Jaraxxus, or Thunderstorming while changing portals on Heroic Valkyrs, etc.

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Old 09/26/09, 5:55 PM   #319
Oldboltsides
Glass Joe
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Firetree
dropping healing stream totem is only 131 mana, and it stacks your trinkets, IDS and Broodmother. its what i use midfight when im moving and thunderstorm is either down or would knock something back.

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Old 09/26/09, 6:17 PM   #320
NormanTheNordman
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Un'Goro (EU)
Are the Shiny Shards of the Flame a trinket option for eles?

250 SP - not much
96 mp5 - slightly usefull in some long fights maybe
They cause "Searing Flame" - anyone tested it yet?

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Old 09/26/09, 7:15 PM   #321
Caelwynar
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Sisters of Elune
250 SP between two trinkets is not impressive, even with the damage proc. Reign of the Unliving + basically any other trinket beats that pair.

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Old 09/26/09, 7:47 PM   #322
Boondok
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Crushridge
Originally Posted by NormanTheNordman View Post
Are the Shiny Shards of the Flame a trinket option for eles?

250 SP - not much
96 mp5 - slightly usefull in some long fights maybe
They cause "Searing Flame" - anyone tested it yet?
Definitely not. [Embrace of the Spider] + [Eye of the Broodmother] are both easy to obtain and much for better than those two trinkets (as examples :P. The [Abyssal Rune] and [Sundial of the Exiled] are also better, and easily obtained.)

Last edited by Boondok : 09/26/09 at 8:43 PM.

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Old 09/27/09, 4:35 AM   #323
Anthraax
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by NormanTheNordman View Post
Are the Shiny Shards of the Flame a trinket option for eles?

250 SP - not much
96 mp5 - slightly usefull in some long fights maybe
They cause "Searing Flame" - anyone tested it yet?
Looking on the MMO database for the spell name only gave me "Inflicts Fire damage to an enemy." Not much in the ways of a damage value. But as far as I can tell, unless the proc did a great amount of damage to make up for otherwise lacking stats the only practical use I see for this trinket set would be a Human Priest in PvP who can afford both trinket slots and could make use of the Heal and Damage portion of the set proc though the likelihood of the two procs sharing the same ICD lead me to believe that only bad players will be putting these items to any use over real trinkets.

Last edited by Anthraax : 09/27/09 at 4:41 AM.

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Old 09/27/09, 6:35 AM   #324
lfa
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Boondok View Post
Apparently reading is hard. Glyph priority: LB>FS>ToW>LvB. Once you get 4pc t9, and 3600+ sp(Not sure on the exact figure, check with Bink) you should replace the ToW glyph for LvB.
I just tested it on a target dummy, fore times each, and with the 4pc t9, im getting more dps out of, these glyphs
ToW
LB
LvB
my question is, did bink re-do the math due to the glyph change, i check with rawr first and it came up with the same as i did testing.
i acept the you guys are smart, and probably the best in the game, but ive read this forum from start to last and ether ive missed something, or my crit isnt high enough, but with my current gear, this looks like the best choice for me, or am i doing something wrong?

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Old 09/27/09, 12:18 PM   #325
Powhatan
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Skullcrusher
Originally Posted by lfa View Post
I just tested it on a target dummy, fore times each, and with the 4pc t9, im getting more dps out of, these glyphs
ToW
LB
LvB
my question is, did bink re-do the math due to the glyph change, i check with rawr first and it came up with the same as i did testing.
i acept the you guys are smart, and probably the best in the game, but ive read this forum from start to last and ether ive missed something, or my crit isnt high enough, but with my current gear, this looks like the best choice for me, or am i doing something wrong?

My guess would be that because you're using Thunder Fall totem, it's increasing the value of your lava burst glyph but giving you overall lower DPS then if you were using the correct totem.

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Old 09/28/09, 10:44 AM   #326
-Abakus-
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Powhatan View Post
My guess would be that because you're using Thunder Fall totem, it's increasing the value of your lava burst glyph but giving you overall lower DPS then if you were using the correct totem.
The [Thunderfall Totem] gives 215 to Base Damage on Lava Burst, so the [Glyph of Lava] (which increases spellpower of LvB) wouldn't have any interaction with it. And yes it's true that he's using a totem that's worse than the totem of hex, but that's not the point.

In his defense, despite having read (and understood) pretty much all of this thread, I mentioned before that Rawr is saying that the glyph of Lava is higher dps than the glyph of flame shock. (both below LB and ToW, which shouldn't be the case). I'm going to drag out my old computer soon so I can run SEIC since I don't have exel on my new one, and see what that gives.

Edit: the reason I mention totem of hex is because it's possible he doesn't have the emblems for Electrifying Winds

Last edited by -Abakus- : 09/28/09 at 4:07 PM.

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Old 09/28/09, 12:24 PM   #327
Powhatan
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Skullcrusher
My mistake then. Regardless he should be using totem of electrifying wind and not Thunderfall or Hex

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Old 09/28/09, 5:20 PM   #328
Memory
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aerie Peak
I also believe that there may be a discrepancy about what glyphs are best to have when you get 4-Piece Tier 9. I tested [Glyph of Flame Shock] and [Glyph of Lava] on the Level 80 Grandmaster's Training Dummy, to prevent misses from affecting my results. In this gear [as I type this, the Armory hasn't been updated--I now have Tier 9 Legs and the 4-Piece], I recorded the following DPS measurements:

TEST WITH [Glyph of Lava Lash], TOTEM OF WRATH, LIGHTNING BOLT
Test 1: 6200 DPS
Test 2: 5900 DPS
Test 3: 6200 DPS

TEST WITH [Glyph of Flame Shock], TOTEM OF WRATH, LIGHTNING BOLT
Test 1: 5800 DPS
Test 2: 5700 DPS
Test 3: 5800 DPS

Although I only did 3 separate tests per set of glyphs, there appears to be a significant difference. Obviously, because of crit chance, proc efficiency, and latency, these tests are not concrete. After each test I waited for several minutes for procs, such as Elemental Mastery and my trinket procs, to be back up. [Totem of Electrifying Wind] was used for all of these tests.

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Old 09/28/09, 5:32 PM   #329
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by -Abakus- View Post
In his defense, despite having read (and understood) pretty much all of this thread, I mentioned before that Rawr is saying that the glyph of Lava is higher dps than the glyph of flame shock. (both below LB and ToW, which shouldn't be the case). I'm going to drag out my old computer soon so I can run SEIC since I don't have exel on my new one, and see what that gives.
At this stage I'd say that Rawr is wrong on that respect, although I haven't looked at it recently. How much are the differences that you're seeing?

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Old 09/28/09, 6:18 PM   #330
-Abakus-
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Draka
3 tests, each being no more than 5 minutes long (i'm guessing) is a terrible way of judging dps. I'm not surprised to see your results because you have no raid buffs at all. add in Imp. Scorch, Focus Magic, AI, Kings, and MotW, and your crit should go up substantially (that's assuming you are already using the ToW debuff on the target). by substiantially, i mean ~9% or more.

what glyph do you think 9% more crit will benefit the most?

three short tests with greatly varying RNG and no raid buffs are not enough to provide any conclusions about anything.

However, as I stated a couple times earlier in the thread, Rawr gave me Lava > FS glyph. SEIC gave me FS @ 129 dps, and Lava @ 122 dps. It might be worth another look, but certainly not by the margins you're suggesting.

ADDED:
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
At this stage I'd say that Rawr is wrong on that respect, although I haven't looked at it recently. How much are the differences that you're seeing?
I'll put the specific number in this post when I get home (in about an hour or two) - I can't remember offhand, but it wasn't a negligible difference. Glyph order was LB -> ToW -> Lava -> FS. As I just posted above, the numbers SEIC gave me have them being pretty competitive, so while Rawr may be wrong, I'm not inclined to disregard it outright quite yet.

UPDATE:
Rawr says:
Lightning Bolt - 430
Totem of Wrath - 295
Lava - 277
Flame Shock - 259

Last edited by -Abakus- : 09/28/09 at 8:14 PM.

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