What I'm interested in now is the new break point in spellpower for 4pc T9 + Lava > ToW, with the changes to Shamanism and the subsequent shifting of the value of SP.
Workin' on it. Got the base mechanics sorted, but I think I need to do some more work on it before I start with the EP values & break even points.
I apologize if I'm not articulating that point well. I'm specifically NOT looking to drop any SP, haste or crit or even gemming, enchanting or food buffing mp5, but when adding upgrades, I'm not dismissing mp5 like I would Spirit. Hopefully that's clear(er).
No, that makes more sense than when I initially read it.
Maybe the purpose is just bringing elems back up in AoE dmg (trash packs or stacking adds on Anub Fight, Flowers @ Freya etc) ?
If they wanted to do that they could just buff SE&F to remove CL's cooldown altogether, which would bring great AoE potential (awesome, actually, until OOM anyway) and interesting mana management problems, like a poor man's arcane blast for single target dps. The whole spec seems out of place after two instances in a row whose hardest bosses have insane AoE requirements.
If they wanted to do that they could just buff SE&F to remove CL's cooldown altogether, which would bring great AoE potential (awesome, actually, until OOM anyway) and interesting mana management problems, like a poor man's arcane blast for single target dps. The whole spec seems out of place after two instances in a row whose hardest bosses have insane AoE requirements.
I don't see this as much realistic on many aspects, whereas the boost thru shamanism makes for better AoE damage than it actually is, and possibly winning CL its spot back in our single target rotation as a tightener, since Lava Glyph being on its way back and the T9-4pc bonus should make optimisation of LvB's CD more important than in late Tier8.
Don't count on that. Cleaves like Heart Strike are all subject to the AoE reduction as well.
See, I thought what you thought, which is why I was confused when my CLs were hitting like normal or what seemed like normal. I dunno to what degree the FCs reduce AoE, which may be the ultimate crux, but I was expecting something like the trash pull prior to Hodir where the mobs are shielded until the larger trash mob goes down. I think that shield is something like a 90% AoE mitigation and that shield does, in fact, mitigate CL hops. So, I dunno if it was just a lesser degree of AoE reduction than I was expecting and an inordinate amount of LO procs along with other anomalies just made for a weird parse or what. But on the Hodir trash, I accidentally hit CL and saw hops of several hundred dmg, only. All of the hops of my CLs were in the thousands on FC. So is it degree of AoE mitigation or does CL mistakenly work and it's just a bug or is it supposed to work because CL isn't a channeled AoE? I dunno. I'll see if I can track down the WWS parse.
I realized I'll be off raiding this week, so I'll have to test it next week.
It could just be the pets or something. Looking at a few logs I see several normal hits from myself (As resto, so they're around 2800, crit for 3800-4800) on the lock pet or the hunter's cat, but then I also have a crit for 400 on the paladin, which is clearly reduced. None of the other shaman in the raid even used it at all, so that's all the data I have, really. (Yes, I like killing pets. Fuckers.)
<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME
I know for sure that all enemy NPC's and Pets have the AoE reduction buff on them. The only thing I can think of is that the buff isn't working properly on pets though I can't see any reason it wouldn't be as they are all technically NPC's so the buff shouldn't operate differently between them.
But on that note, I can vouch for my CLs being reduced on the bounces as I've fat-fingered it once or twice on the encounter. While the reduction is only 75% instead of the 90% mentioned on Hodir trash mobs, you may see 1000's instead of 300-500's but the reduction is there.
Edit: To clarify Gwaihir, The first hit does normal damage, bounces take the reduction. Where the hits you saw the first target of any Chain you may have thrown out?
I'm certain the pets would have been first hits. I actually found another log of an older fight where the enhance shaman used CL a few times, and it does seem that first hits work as normal, while the hops eat the reduction. He had several hitting for 5-8k on the "PCs" which couldn't be anything other than the first jump on his target with Stormstrike up, along with others hitting for 200-600, again on pets and "PCs"
Good for us, I guess.
<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME
What I'm interested in now is the new break point in spellpower for 4pc T9 + Lava > ToW, with the changes to Shamanism and the subsequent shifting of the value of SP.
With T8 4pc it's 4055 (ToW:129, Lava: 109 @ 3385sp) but since T8 2pc isn't changing it won't make much of a difference there.
Switch in T9 4pc however, and it changes to 3497 (ToW 127, Lava 125 @ 3385sp).
Status on changes so far: rotation set up to have 4 CL settings: None, After LvB, Before LvB, on Cooldown. More accurate CC model and OOM calculations (also working on giving information to work out best CL use to result in zero mana at the end of the fight, but no Heroism calculations yet. Sets & Glyphs are done, Relics still to go.
You dont neccesarily have to specc into Convection because you will be going back to Chain Lightning.
Currently I have 2/5 in Convection and I am using chain lightning on cooldown (since in my opinion its better damage that LB or maybe I just like the fast cast).
So you don't neccesarily need the mana reduction, but lets say that you die, and ankh or get CRed you wont get to use it EVER
I'm one piece short of swapping to the new tier and going over 1k haste with the totem up, I think some points in convection will be very healthy for your mana pool.
With quite a lot of movement required in toct regaining mana from Thunderstorm shouldn't be too much of a dps drop as well.
I think we will be seeing different spell priorities dependant on fight duration again, it will be fun trying to end all fights with as low as possible mana again.
I never left the old ele build with 5/5 convection, mostly because I'd rather mana really never be an issue and I don't really die much.
I've found that adding all this haste does start taxing your mana pool a bit, up to 751 unbuffed now with just a couple pieces until the 800's.
If the up to CL is enough that it starts becoming a part of the main rotation again, I can't see not having to get convection, especially as you rise in haste levels.
Longtime reader, first time poster. Thanks Bink for all your hard work here.
With these changes I'm assuming we'll go back to 5/5 Convection in 3.2.2? The old 57/14/0 build without Elemental Warding making a comeback?
I switched to this spec after our 2nd atempt on the heroic beasts. For me it just seems impossible to not run oom otherwiese. There are just to many opportunities to use chainlightning in almost all fights in ToTC H.
1. Snowbolds on Meles so you can cleave the Boss
2. Mistresses of Pain / Elementals
3. Twin's
4. Anub adds (i even use the chainlightning glyphe on this fight
Just note that CL is wonky on most of those fights, and often won't jump from snobolds/Anub adds to their respective boss unless they are right on top of him.
I'm personally at 1019 haste when I raid, and I've been noticing my mana dipping a lot more lately then ever before. At this point in gearing, I'd almost say 57/14/0 is necessary to keep up sustainability, even without regular CLing in the rotation (and just incidental CL when adds are near bosses), but I don't have any math to back me up aside from anecdotal evidence.
Just note that CL is wonky on most of those fights, and often won't jump from snobolds/Anub adds to their respective boss unless they are right on top of him.
I'm personally at 1019 haste when I raid, and I've been noticing my mana dipping a lot more lately then ever before. At this point in gearing, I'd almost say 57/14/0 is necessary to keep up sustainability, even without regular CLing in the rotation (and just incidental CL when adds are near bosses), but I don't have any math to back me up aside from anecdotal evidence.
If you atempt anub hardmode the adds HAVE to be on top of the boss So every aoe class has to be able to dps all 4 adds + the boss at the same time, otherwise you gonna get trouble with limited amount of patches/healer runing out of mana/to many add spawns. So you are guaranteed to get the full benefit of CL!
I give it to you that its somethimes luck if you can get a chainlightning jump to the boss/other snowbold on the beasts fight. But then just switch back to your single target rotation without CL if they are not within range of a 2nd target. Not to much of a dps loss imho...
On the Jaxxus fight its actually quit easy to see if the adds are within CL jumprange of each other to warrant casting a CL.
If you atempt anub hardmode the adds HAVE to be on top of the boss So every aoe class has to be able to dps all 4 adds + the boss at the same time, otherwise you gonna get trouble with limited amount of patches/healer runing out of mana/to many add spawns. So you are guaranteed to get the full benefit of CL!
I give it to you that its somethimes luck if you can get a chainlightning jump to the boss/other snowbold on the beasts fight. But then just switch back to your single target rotation without CL if they are not within range of a 2nd target. Not to much of a dps loss imho...
On the Jaxxus fight its actually quit easy to see if the adds are within CL jumprange of each other to warrant casting a CL.
Yeah, the Jaraxxus fight is good about that.
However, what I meant on Anub is that often for me, even when the adds are right next to the boss (as in, not ontop of the boss, but just to the right of him) CL doesn't make the jump to Anub. Often, its only if they are at least half under him that it jumps to them.
If I remember correctly, Glyph of LB>Flameshock>ToW>lava, so you wouldn't want to swap it out.
Shaman
* Flame Shock: The duration of all ranks has been increased by 6 seconds.
* Lava Burst: This ability no longer ever consumes a Flame Shock debuff off of the target.
with these changes unless they change the flame shock which i dont see that they have for the ptr why would you still use that glyph > wasted slot imo.
it would seem that swapping out FS with Lava and keeping LB and ToW would be a pretty decent boost to dps or am i missing something.
09/14/09, 9:28 PM
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