If 20 Haste > 40 AP in the long run why switch to Totem of Quaking Earth from Electrifying Wind even with the extra 200 ap? The same way you compare the 20 haste with 40 ap you would compare the 200 haste with the 400 ap both with the same uptime (Even less considering LL is lower in the rotation)

True but it also has longer duration. I think in the end I usually have more LLs then MW LBs but it's been a while since I looked at any logs. How would the ep values compare now anyways? If they are close enough I'd be happy with quake as there are many situations where I like to use CL on the fly.

But they don't have the same uptime. It ends up being more like 85% uptime on the haste, and 95% uptime on the attack power.

source

I doubt it, I have my T8 4pc bonus broken but still manage to get at least 1 MW5 within 1 LL, that is with my gear currently AP stacked.
I can only assume that in a haste-gemmed Build (which we are talking about) you will have MW5 > LL

From the lore forged here tha Electrifying Wind will top Quaking Earth in Single Target Combat.

They do. Also, keep in mind that Elec Wind compliments itself in the sense that it helps keep uptime with faster swings.
~.16 faster swing times to be more precise.
Combine that with 20% haste from WF
And another say 400 haste with a haste build. (12-13% haste)
Then 25% from flurry. (Which has a relatively high uptime raid buffed when you're sitting at like 50%+ crit)
You end up with with roughly a 1 second swing for both weapons w/o lust/heroism

That's 2.25 swings per second (Stormstrike = insta attack w/ both weapons every 8 seconds which brings the .25)

What makes you think that EnhSim and mods like Recount/ProcWatch don't take into account the feedback effect? Last I checked they report the raw uptime of the buff.

That math isn't even close to correct. Here's the haste equation



Wsf = Final Weapon Speed
Wsi = Initial Weapon Speed
H = Character sheet haste, 0<H<1
hi = A form of %-based haste, such as WF Totem = 20%


Let's assume a 2.6 speed weapon, with the 400 haste rating you imply will give a 1s swing time. 25.21 haste per 1%. So, 400/25.21 = 15.866% character sheet haste. Our hi's will be .20 (WFT), .25 (Flurry), and .03 (Imp. Moonkin, etc).

So, WSf = 2.6/((1.15866)*(1.2*1.25*1.03)) = 1.452s

With the totem active:
Wsf = 2.6/((1.238)*(1.2*1.25*1.03)) = 1.359s


Sure, saying that the totem "complements itself" with faster swing speeds and greater uptimes might technically be true, but the uptime on the totem isn't all the great. I've been running it for quite some time, and I routinely see it fail to activate on my first 2-3 LBs of a fight.

It has a 6s ICD, so if you stack your MW's very fast during one iteration, and let loose when the timer is at 6.1 seconds, you can't proc the totem. Now, say your next MWLB doesn't come for another 8 seconds, you've lost 2 seconds of uptime already... what if that LB doesn't activate the totem? You've lost more time. I don't think you'll really find anyone to back up your claims that Electrifying Wind has as much uptime as Quaking Earth.

Did anyone get to do any maths on Empowered Deathbringer (25 man) during the PTR? I would imagine the proc wouldn't have to be all that strong to make it BiS offhand, or at the very least better than Caress.

It has been stated in multiple places that the value of haste is relative to your set up, so running the sim with each upgrade will give you the answer you seek. Additionally when slotting consider fight mechanics (multi mobs, silence effects, etc.)

Having said that, owning both will ensure you are prepared for whatever stands in front of you.

I got one tonight. And I plan on going back to CoI. The the person who was logging tonight lost her logs somehow, so I don't have parses I can link, but every time I checked my dmg, the average non crit was around 1850. After some quick dummy hitting in IF, 5 min combat length for 3 procs. Each around 1500 non crit.

I think they kept the old proc mechanics on it, rather than having it be a high proc chance/long ICD. Basically, I don't think it's worth it. Waste of an enchant.

I picked up a [Raging Deathbringer] last night in 25 Ony and already got it Berserking'd. So if someone would like to pm me a set of tests to perform on it, i'd be happy to do them. From the few quick tests last night i did it seems to get about 1-2 ppm, but i'm not quite sure i got the testing right and it was a minimum length of testing.

Well 3.2.2 is live. I tryed that FS ES ES rotation that was discused some time ago when the changes to FS were anounced. I really got mixed results. The rotation is a bit more dificult but I do like it. Has anyone else had any luck with this set up. Also i am haveing a bit harder time mannaging exp and hit cap. I got Dreath Verdict last night and i am trying to figure with other trink to drop. i was running Victors Call and the infuser. I was getting most of my hit and exp from those items. Also i am going 4 tieace t9 tonight and i am loseing hit to that as well. Although i dont think hit will be a prob after i grab some new weps (Stompike Cleavers). Any input would we great.

I've got the Raging Deathbringer and am currently doing the autoattack thing. After I'm done I'll upload the results to WMO.

Last night, unrecorded, I did a test that involved 2453 main hand attacks and I observed 112 shadow bolt procs, about 4.566% on that test run.

I also noted that even with a very small chance to proc, the shadow bolt CAN occur on back to back to back swings. So, if there is any sort of ICD, it's less than 1.5ish seconds. Furthermore, the shadow bolt can crit (based on spell crit) and crits for 150% like a normal spell.

The log should be up before too long.

I'll be sure to do that, naked & w/o talents since i plan to change my spec around tonite anyway. Also i'm going to plan a run with various other small differences such as spellpower, Elem Devistation to judge any effect by/of the spell crit mentioned by Axaeron above. Any other suggestions for me to add to the test list?

Proc rate, spellpower Effects, AP Effects, Crit Effects, Effect talent Uptime,

Tell me if any of this seems off.

Rough Estimate puts the average proc at double the damage of a lightning shield proc, considering that the axe proc can crit and lightning shield can't. Putting a single point in Static Shock and having 2T9 would set that to a 5% proc rate on melee hits. Then I turned off everything except Mainhand white hits and Stormstrike. LS did 95 dps. Meaning the axe should do about 190 dps which is equal to ~292 AP/EP. Considering that the Frostblade Hatchet (ilevel 245 version) has about 340 EP of value from stats and that 0.1 speed is worth about 70 EP the Ony axe should end up pretty comparable to the ilevel 245 weapons from ToC but still would be smoked by the 258 ones.

Looking forward to those logs so we can get it properly implemented in the Sim for a real comparison.

So, apparently random people coming up in Ironforge and hitting the dummies fragmented my combat logs when I uploaded to WMO.

At any rate, here is the link:

Deathbringer Test

Total Main Hand Hits = 3000
Total Shadow Bolt Procs = 138
Observed Proc Rate = 4.6%

Stated Range of Proc: 1458 to 1874
Observed Range of Proc: 1462 to 1872

Stated Crit Range: 1458*1.5 to 1874*1.5 = 2187 to 2811
Meta Crit Range: 1458*(1.5*1.03) to 1874*(1.5*1.03) = 2253 to 2895
Observed Crit Range: 2260 to 2892

Conclusions: Meta Gem modifies the critical strikes. Spell power and attack power do not modify anything.


Given my original "unofficial" test that observed a 4.57% proc chance on 2453 swings, as well as the post by Brynmor in the EnhSim thread where he observed 46 procs in 1000 swings, I think we'll find the exact proc rate to be very close to 4.6%.


For the test, I was wearing all my gear except an off-hand weapon. I fail to see the value of being naked when it's apparent that none of our stats effect the magnitude or frequency of the proc. The haste on the gear allows us to get a larger sample size in the same amount of time.

There is a big difference between a testing segment to determine proc rate and how that proc will work in actual practice. It should proc from Stormstrike as well as from each individual weapon hit involved in a windfury proc and those things will greatly increase the amount of dps gained.

I have determined that it does proc from Stormstrike, Lava Lash and Windfury procs.

The first two were easy to figure out (stand sideways to a dummy such that you can use special attacks but can't autoswing) and I figured out that it does proc off of Windfury by running a swing test (no offhand, all other gear on) with Raging Deathbringer imbued with Windfury. I had 740 white hits, 274Windfury hits (137 procs) and 50 Deathbringer procs. If you take the sum of the white hits and Windfury hits (1014) and divide the number of Deathbringer procs by it you get a proc rate of 4.9% which is very close to the ~4.6% proc rate people have been observing.

I'll be running the Deathbringer for ToGC tonight. I'll upload my logs after it's over so we can look at some real combat situations.

Raging Deathbringer: Naked Test, ~52 minutes
Does Not trigger Elemental Devestation
Is not affected by Elemental Fury
Is not affected by Spellpower
Is not Affected by AP
Is affected by Spell Crit rating

[Still undocumented but likely]
Spell Pen Effects
Spell Hit Effects

Haste Rating (obviously more hits means more procs, however proc/hit rate may change as demonstrated below)

66(procs) / 1271(swings) = 0.0519

Naked 0% Haste Proc rate seems to be about 5.19%
Earlier ~15% haste geared listing mentioned a 4.5% rate indicating some type of internal cooldown mechanisim, albeit a small one as mentioned earlier or a PPM mechanic not previously discussed. (ppm is still a possibility even though procs can happen back to back such a 3procs/2minutes with a 20% chance of a 4th etc *we do not really know how Blizzard truely codes these things as they are very fond of pointing out)

~15% haste = a 0.69% proc rate difference (not counting talent or totem haste if he tested with that)

Sounds like they implemented it with the old PPM mechanic where the proc rate is based on the weapon speed including any haste. Current model for PPM mechanics like Maelstrom Weapon are a proc rate based on weapon speed unaffected by haste, so adding haste doesn't change the proc rate and you end up with more frequent procs.

If they used the old mechanic then Flurry shouldn't change the proc rate but any other forms of haste will end up decreasing the proc rate such that the overall number of procs per unit time ends up remaining constant.

Here's my log from tonight...

I was running the Deathbringer on these hard modes: Northrend Beasts attempts, the Jaraxxus attempts, and the FC attempt. I was healing for Twin Valks. The data for FC is probably no good, as I died 3 times and was purging most of the time.

WMO Log