[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion - Page 2

Duscha · 07/17/09, 12:57 PM

Tuskarr's Vitality should be classified as BiS. Are we not as realistic as possible with all?
By given simulation_time of 1000 the DPS differs a lot. 5000 hours is a more stable value.

Nevertheless I have done it to 7318 DPS with a few adjustments.

Gear: Rawr

Enhsim config:

### Saved by version 1.8.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.7
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         30.86
oh_crit                         30.86
mh_hit                          11.50
oh_hit                          11.50
mh_expertise_rating             142
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              4584
melee_haste                     19.23
armor_penetration               5.12
str                             141
agi                             889
int                             535
spi                             161
spellpower                      1375
spell_crit                      22.68
spell_hit                       14.37
spell_haste                     14.79
max_mana                        12141
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45522
trinket2                        45609

totem                           42608

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

DPS Report:

EnhSim version 1.8.0

................................................................................

MH:
miss                237242         9.47%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            600579         23.98%
hit                 492464         19.67%
crit                1173790        46.88%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.77%
procs/swings        14.49%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 423821         50.17%
crit                420901         49.83%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 206903         50.27%
crit                204700         49.73%

OH:
miss                237666         9.49%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            601432         24.02%
hit                 491297         19.62%
crit                1173680        46.87%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1943195        61.75%
crit                1203856        38.25%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 206522         50.18%
crit                205081         49.82%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 316364         61.62%
crit                197017         38.38%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 234585         50.01%
crit                234454         49.99%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 391178         61.68%
crit                242988         38.32%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 456154         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               117258         6.55%
glancing            430572         24.04%
hit                 1038500        57.99%
crit                204502         11.42%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 60.06

flurry uptime                  94.70%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   77.26%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              43.00%
oh enchant uptime              38.41%
trinket1 uptime                18.06%
trinket2 uptime                20.65%
totem uptime                   78.17%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 36.11     15.56%
replenishment       37.17     16.02%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.99      3.87%
shamanistic rage    49.59     21.37%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         100.19    43.18%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2172.66   29.69%    83.47
windfury            883.44    12.07%    7.04
flametongue         585.83    8.01%     52.45
stormstrike         464.77    6.35%     6.86      37.80     15.23%
lava lash           390.32    5.33%     7.82      21.54     8.68%
magma totem         569.40    7.78%     2.84      52.79     21.27%
earth shock         616.44    8.42%     8.56      55.29     22.28%
lightning bolt      1087.53   14.86%    10.57     77.44     31.21%
lightning shield    245.48    3.35%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       302.22    4.13%     0.40      3.31      1.33%

DPS                 7318.09
MPS                 248.15
MP2min              29778.56
MRPS                239.04
Out of mana time    0.07%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 2.91s
simulation speed: 1238816x

Vespasian · 07/17/09, 1:19 PM

Thanks for that Rouncer. I tested as you suggest and yeilded the results you predicted. I will re-inlcude MW3_CL, MW4_LB in the ability priority order list.

Dedmon, I would not be willing to maintain such a page at this time as Wowhead is not able to list EVERY item that we would include, where as my html table can (though sometimes crudely, as is currently the case with Comet's Trail).

dedmonwakeen · 07/17/09, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Dedmon, I would not be willing to maintain such a page at this time as Wowhead is not able to list EVERY item that we would include, where as my html table can (though sometimes crudely, as is currently the case with Comet's Trail).

No problem, I totally understand.

Consider using the mmo link: Comet's Trail - Items - Sigrie
No pretty mouse-overs, but a minor improvement.

Thanks for keeping the dps report up to date. You've encouraged me to ensure I keep the SimulationCraft Shaman module current.

EDIT: I'm still ~1% shy of EnhSim's numbers. I'll keep looking, but its hard to find the modeling differences when the deltas are this small.

[hieter@localhost simulationcraft]$ ./simcraft wowhead=12714186 trinket1=comets_trail,id=45609 save_profiles=1
@
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )
@
simcraft: Player shamant8175400 unable to download item 45609 from armory at slot trinket1.
simcraft: Trying wowhead...
@
simcraft: Player shamant8175400 unable to download item id 45609 from wowhead at slot trinket1.
simcraft: Trying mmo-champion...

Generating profiles... 
[hieter@localhost simulationcraft]$ ./save_shamant8175400.simcraft queue_lag=0.050 gcd_lag=0.050 

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
   7280 100.0%  Raid
   7286  100.0%  shamant8175400

Player=shamant8175400 (enhancement)  DPS=7285.9 (Error=+/-14.1 Range=+/-776)  DPR=34.7  RS=209.8/206.6  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=12714186
  Core Stats:  strength=139  agility=909  stamina=970  intellect=543  spirit=154  health=12705  mana=12259
  Spell Stats:  power=1382  hit=14.37%  crit=19.20%  penetration=0  haste=11.01%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4608  hit=11.50%  crit=27.57%  expertise=7.50  penetration=5.11%  haste=14.31%
  Defense Stats:  armor=9529
  Glyphs: windfury_weapon/stormstrike/feral_spirit
  Actions:
    earth_shock           Count= 44.0| 6.8sec  DPE=  4095| 8%  DPET=  3337  DPR=  19.9  pDPS= 602  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2879  Crit= 6018| 6697|38.7%
    flametongue           Count=260.4| 1.2sec  DPE=   609| 7%  DPET=   inf  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 530  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 504  Crit=  779|  858|38.3%
    lava_lash             Count= 39.7| 7.5sec  DPE=  2756| 5%  DPET=  1778  DPR=  15.7  pDPS= 366  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1780  Crit= 3668| 4304|51.7%
    lightning_bolt        Count= 58.0| 5.1sec  DPE=  5557|15%  DPET=  4552  DPR=  16.4  pDPS=1076  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3914  Crit= 8174| 9349|38.6%
    lightning_shield      Count= 32.5| 9.0sec  DPE=  1986| 3%  DPET= 13065  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 215  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1986
    magma_totem           Count= 14.4|21.4sec  DPE= 11037| 7%  DPET= 10511  DPR=  13.2  pDPS= 530  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=139  Tick=806  CritTick=1685|1814|38.5%
    melee_main_hand       Count=204.2| 1.5sec  DPE=  2107|20%  DPET=  1468  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1436  Miss=9.5%  Hit=1567  Crit= 3230| 3772|47.0%  Glance=1175|24.1%
    melee_off_hand        Count=204.5| 1.5sec  DPE=  1042|10%  DPET=   728  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 711  Miss=9.5%  Hit= 775  Crit= 1596| 1867|47.1%  Glance= 581|24.0%
    stormstrike           Count= 71.0| 8.6sec  DPE=  2166| 7%  DPET=  2795  DPR=  12.3  pDPS= 514  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1404  Crit= 2880| 4527|51.6%
    windfury              Count= 71.6| 8.3sec  DPE=  3857|13%  DPET=   inf  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 923  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2490  Crit= 5130| 5880|51.8%
   spirit_wolf  (DPS=479.6)
    wolf_melee            Count= 78.3| 1.2sec  DPE=  1462| 5%  DPET=  1248  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 382  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1456  Crit= 2912| 3234|12.9%  Glance=1092|23.9%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    shamant8175400:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5905.0  (overflow=9.6%)
        improved_stormstrike=12987.9  (overflow=17.5%)
        initial_mana=14995.4
        judgement_of_wisdom=32741.8  (overflow=6.5%)
        replenishment=10242.6  (overflow=8.6%)

Procs:

    shamant8175400:
        blood_of_the_old_god=5.3|55.97sec
        comets_trail=6.3|47.24sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=398.4|0.75sec
        windfury=35.8|8.36sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy                  
        100.0% : improved_scorch               
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt          
        100.0% : master_poisoner               
        100.0% : savage_combat                 
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath                
        100.0% : winters_chill                 

    shamant8175400:
         42.9% : berserking_mh                 
         38.4% : berserking_oh                 
         78.9% : elemental_devastation         
         90.7% : flurry                        
         66.2% : indomitability_totem          
         89.5% : nature_vulnerability          
        100.0% : replenishment                 
        100.0% : unleashed_rage                

Waiting:
    12.8% : shamant8175400

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 3060342
  MaxEventQueue = 27
  TargetHealth  = 2181627
  SimSeconds    = 299659
  CpuSeconds    = 2.780
  SpeedUp       = 107791

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.001348 Range=1.000000 Gauss=0.999694

Deathicle · 07/17/09, 1:32 PM

Cat's Swiftness would be the best enchant for pure DPSing, not Tuskarr's Vitality. 6 Agility will obviously outsim 15 stamina...

Aeolian · 07/17/09, 2:29 PM

Do we have a standard acceptable spec yet? The one I originally ran my tests with was without SF, with maxed out ImpSS, and nothing in Reverb. Is there a specific spec you want us testing with or are we trying to find the best spec as well? I've tested just about every variation of the spec I run with, but for some consistency a set spec would be nice.

Using what I believe is a fairly standard spec (linked below) I've pulled the following output from the gear listed on the first post.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This was also done with MW3_CL and MW4_LB in the rotation.

* Removed due to changes in the gear list.

Vespasian · 07/17/09, 2:45 PM

Updated

After some confusion on my part, we clarfied simulation behaviour re: swing timer resets and casts. The result is that the sim is accurate in its recreation of the ingame environment, so the MW3_CL, MW4_LB could be re-included in results.

This put Aoelian's proposed set-up at roughly 7387 DPS. Duscha then provided a build that provided a stable 7390 DPS when I applied the rotation changes.

Duscha also raised a point about the stability of our results when using only 1000 hour sims. I think he is correct, and so have set down 5000 hours as the required sim time. This will limit the output range from 1-5 dps down to 1-2 dps.

Coming back to the issue of Cat's on boots, I am still not willing to apply it since a) its value is not equal in all encounters and b) our simulation tool cannot take these variances into account and c) it is possible for a raider to have 2 pairs of the same boots and apply different enchants to them based on encounter. At least this way, people will have a clear indication of theoretical maxims, while also understanding that Cat's will often provide superior DPS based on the amount of movement in the encounter.

As for spec, the inclusion of mana simulation as a compulsory element means that mana talents must be able to support the gear and rotation you have designed, otherwise the report would demonstrate a DPS decrease.

Runslikegirl · 07/17/09, 3:52 PM

I have read through the Glyphs Numeric Comparison post and I dont see where the Windfury glyph has been proven to be surperior since the nerf from 5% to 2%. I dont have enhsim in front of me due to being at the office but does anyone have the comparison numbers with this gear set handy?

The last time I did a target dummy of like 4k swings I know the lightning shield glyph seemed to be like 30dps higher over the 3 or 4 rounds I did.

Rouncer · 07/17/09, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Runslikegirl

I have read through the Glyphs Numeric Comparison post and I dont see where the Windfury glyph has been proven to be surperior since the nerf from 5% to 2%. I dont have enhsim in front of me due to being at the office but does anyone have the comparison numbers with this gear set handy?

The last time I did a target dummy of like 4k swings I know the lightning shield glyph seemed to be like 30dps higher over the 3 or 4 rounds I did.

Target Dummy =/ Sim unless you managed to get an entire raid's worth of buffs and debuffs applied to the boss dummy.

My sim runs show WF > FT > LB for that third glyph spot.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boot Enchants - I suggest removing them entirely for testing purposes.

In 3.2 there will be a third option that will muck up the BiS even further since Nitro boots will be getting 24 crit rating. Beyond that if someone is using two sets of BiS boots to be able to switch enchants based on the encounter then they will need to be hit capped in their cat speed enchanted version meaning Icewalker will take them over the spell hit cap. Since your current BiS uses Icewalker to just hit that spell hit cap it loses that ability to switch enchants, meaning it is no longer a real BiS set.

Yo! · 07/17/09, 7:40 PM

1. Major notice - it should be named as "[Enhancement] Enhsim BiS gear and set-up". There are other tools available such as Simcraft and Rawr and it is not proven that Enhsim is better reflecting in-game behavior.

2. Minor notice - why profession choice is limited to static 64 ap bonus? Jc+bs combo would add more flexibility in playing around hit/exp caps.

Rouncer · 07/18/09, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Yo!

2. Minor notice - why profession choice is limited to static 64 ap bonus? Jc+bs combo would add more flexibility in playing around hit/exp caps.

Probably for the same reason race is limited, it's supposed to be about the gear.

Vespasian · 07/18/09, 12:45 AM

Again on Cat's on boots, I am still not convinced since there are at least two encounters currently in the game where this enchant provides no benefit whatsoever (XT normal mode and Patchwerk). Given that encounters such as these (stationary, tank and spank encounters) are often used as the 'benchmark' DPS encounters, they offer the greatest opportunity to view our maximum potential DPS in-game. I think there is some value in our simulation results, that demonstrate our theoretical potential, aligning with these in-game encounters that show our actual performance under conditions as close to the simulation environment as possible.

I make a clear note on the boots enchant directing people to the TTT section on minor speed to boots, This will allow people to make an informed choice about their boots enchant. If people do chose a run speed enchant for the currently listed BiS set-up, they will simply have to gear/enchant to accomodate this.

On professions, the JC, BS and Skinning provide non-uniform benfits that are not aligned with the standard +64 AP provided by most other professions. Since, as Rouncer points out, this is about gear and not professions, I actively sought to exclude professions such as these as they would skew the results, and make them impractical given that few people would spend 3-5K gold levelling a profession for a 10-15 DPS in simulator results. Any DPS increase that people of those professions are able to obtain is free DPS over and above the minimum laid down here.

As for the integrity of the Enhsim versus other sims, I will only say that Enhsim is as accurate a sim tool as the community is currently able to maintain. It provides a largely accurate testing environment and given the support provided by many people, bugs are often identified and corrected (such as currently occuring with the matter of swing timers and non-instant casts). Simcraft, according to one of the authors, is providing results with around 1% standard deviation from Enhsim, so I am sure that this is also a valuable tool. Rawr is not a useful tool for us as its since you cannot dictate an ability priority list.

Vespasian · 07/18/09, 3:44 AM

Updated

Managed to squeeze out a little more dps when using Gloves of the Steady Hand.

Donodan · 07/18/09, 9:37 AM

Hey, my Chars name is Donodan, currently playing on Eu nathreuim as the raidlead form"set sail for fail" ~ world rank 190, therefore I am not new to the Ej forum.

Beacuse i am from Germany, my english isn´t the best , so I hope that you will forgive me for my wired structure and choice of words.

I was able to sim a log in which i reached ~7427-7430 dps

Here´s the current setup form chardev (using 2x dark Matter because Comet´s isn´t avaiable at chardev-_>simply adding 18 ap at EnhSim)
chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Because i Don´t know how to link such a code I´ll post the the complete data

(don´t know why i it still says 1.7, updated it today)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.7
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         33.48
oh_crit                         33.48
mh_hit                          11.19
oh_hit                          11.19
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              4864
melee_haste                     12
armor_penetration               2.68
str                             141
agi                             965
int                             501
spi                             160
spellpower                      1459
spell_crit                      24.19
spell_hit                       13.99
spell_haste                     9.33
max_mana                        13000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        45522

totem                           42608

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EnhSim version 1.8.0

................................................................................


OH:
miss                1204486        9.82%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2946665        24.01%
hit                 2230054        18.17%
crit                5889570        48.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                3243           0.02%
hit                 9626684        61.73%
crit                5965178        38.25%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1036325        49.04%
crit                1076834        50.96%

Earth Shock:
miss                532            0.02%
hit                 1663380        61.75%
crit                1029617        38.23%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1182665        48.96%
crit                1232992        51.04%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                708            0.02%
hit                 2144829        61.75%
crit                1327593        38.22%

Lightning Shield:
miss                450            0.02%
hit                 2290071        99.98%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               585940         6.50%
glancing            2159774        23.97%
hit                 5227270        58.02%
crit                1036544        11.50%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 59.39

flurry uptime                  95.38%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.46%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.55%
oh enchant uptime              38.18%
trinket1 uptime                20.57%
trinket2 uptime                18.08%
totem uptime                   80.52%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 36.12     19.30%
replenishment       38.83     20.74%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.93      4.77%
shamanistic rage    103.28    55.18%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2156.40   29.03%    81.81
windfury            892.80    12.02%    7.02
flametongue         586.00    7.89%     51.98
stormstrike         484.35    6.52%     7.04      38.81     17.68%
lava lash           399.73    5.38%     8.05      16.39     7.46%
magma totem         554.58    7.46%     2.87      53.35     24.30%
earth shock         634.19    8.54%     8.98      37.96     17.29%
lightning bolt      1171.10   15.76%    11.58     69.75     31.77%
lightning shield    242.25    3.26%     0.85      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       307.95    4.15%     0.40      3.31      1.51%

DPS                 7429.36
MPS                 219.56
MP2min              26346.91
MRPS                193.39
Out of mana time    0.12%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 17.85s
simulation speed: 1008572x

Rouncer · 07/18/09, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Donodan

Hey, my Chars name is Donodan, currently playing on Eu nathreuim as the raidlead form"set sail for fail" ~ world rank 190, therefore I am not new to the Ej forum.

race                            orc

First off use [ code ] [ /code ] when posting a config file. Next, read the directions and understand them before posting. All sims are to be done with Tauren as the selected race to prevent race from being involved in the performance.

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Again on Cat's on boots, I am still not convinced since there are at least two encounters currently in the game where this enchant provides no benefit whatsoever (XT normal mode and Patchwerk). Given that encounters such as these (stationary, tank and spank encounters) are often used as the 'benchmark' DPS encounters, they offer the greatest opportunity to view our maximum potential DPS in-game. I think there is some value in our simulation results, that demonstrate our theoretical potential, aligning with these in-game encounters that show our actual performance under conditions as close to the simulation environment as possible.

I make a clear note on the boots enchant directing people to the TTT section on minor speed to boots, This will allow people to make an informed choice about their boots enchant. If people do chose a run speed enchant for the currently listed BiS set-up, they will simply have to gear/enchant to accomodate this.

On professions, the JC, BS and Skinning provide non-uniform benfits that are not aligned with the standard +64 AP provided by most other professions. Since, as Rouncer points out, this is about gear and not professions, I actively sought to exclude professions such as these as they would skew the results, and make them impractical given that few people would spend 3-5K gold levelling a profession for a 10-15 DPS in simulator results. Any DPS increase that people of those professions are able to obtain is free DPS over and above the minimum laid down here.

Cat's speed. There may be two encounters where it will not show any benefit however there are many more encounters where it will be extremely beneficial. People do keep two sets of boots ( I know I do) for the two enchants but that doesn't preclude making sure that you are at least at the hit cap when using the set of boots with runspeed. Since your set is literally at the spell hit cap when using Icewalker, you will be under the cap when using a set with runspeed, thus invalidating your results entirely.

Professions. Don't forget about tailoring and engineering, they also have non-standard benefits that may actually end up being superior to the other options.

Donodan · 07/18/09, 10:44 AM

Well I already said i didn t know how to handel the config file, so thanks for your advice - I have changed it now.

The race doesn´t seem to chance anything (still getting 7430 dps as Tauren) as long you are not wearing axes, (strange because auf the orc racial), so i forgot to swap it back to tauren,my fault here.

Rouncer · 07/18/09, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Donodan

Well I already said i didn t know how to handel the config file, so thanks for your advice.

The race doesn´t seem to chance anything (still getting 7430 dps as Tauren) as long you are not wearing axes, (strange because auf the orc racial), so i forgot to chance it back to tauren,my fault here.

Blood Fury - Spell - World of Warcraft

You also have combat length set to 5 minutes instead of 10 and you have latency set to 0.

Yo! · 07/18/09, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vespasian

As for the integrity of the Enhsim versus other sims, I will only say that Enhsim is as accurate a sim tool as the community is currently able to maintain. It provides a largely accurate testing environment and given the support provided by many people, bugs are often identified and corrected (such as currently occuring with the matter of swing timers and non-instant casts). Simcraft, according to one of the authors, is providing results with around 1% standard deviation from Enhsim, so I am sure that this is also a valuable tool. Rawr is not a useful tool for us as its since you cannot dictate an ability priority list.

Can you please prove your words that "It provides a largely accurate testing environment"?
I would be very interested in methodology of evaluating simulators accuracy in order to make such claims.
Do you have huge data samples of fully buffed raids beating dummies for 10 minutes?
In fact community is not able now to maintain bug-fixing frequency that Tukez was maintaining and no one knows how many bugs are left.
My point is - this maxdps number and BiS list are completely dependant on current version of one program (if next update will lower the maxdps number - you are going to lower it too, are not you?) and it has to be stated very clearly, not hidden into disclaimer part alongside with minor conventions.

gilf · 07/18/09, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Yo!

Can you please prove your words that "It provides a largely accurate testing environment"?
I would be very interested in methodology of evaluating simulators accuracy in order to make such claims.
Do you have huge data samples of fully buffed raids beating dummies for 10 minutes?
In fact community is not able now to maintain bug-fixing frequency that Tukez was maintaining and no one knows how many bugs are left.
My point is - this maxdps number and BiS list are completely dependant on current version of one program (if next update will lower the maxdps number - you are going to lower it too, are not you?) and it has to be stated very clearly, not hidden into disclaimer part alongside with minor conventions.

The complaint about not being able to maintain the source is not true. The community has been fixing bugs in the enhsim code since the source has been publicly available all along. Just recently, the armor pen calculations were changed to reflect the Ghostcrawler post on the same subject.

As far as comparing other simulations, it seems to be a worthwhile endeavor but ultimately outside of the scope of this thread. The point of the thread is, as Rouncer noted, about the gear, not the specific number which will never be attained anyway, even on a fully debuffed target dummy. An easier way to check this would be to try and get Rawr or simcraft to somehow disagree with the gear list in the thread. Even if the numbers are slightly different, but the maxdps gearset is the same, it's a non-issue. That's a lot easier than getting a raid together to fight a target dummy.

Yo! · 07/18/09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by gilf

The complaint about not being able to maintain the source is not true. The community has been fixing bugs in the enhsim code since the source has been publicly available all along. Just recently, the armor pen calculations were changed to reflect the Ghostcrawler post on the same subject.
As far as comparing other simulations, it seems to be a worthwhile endeavor but ultimately outside of the scope of this thread. The point of the thread is, as Rouncer noted, about the gear, not the specific number which will never be attained anyway, even on a fully debuffed target dummy. An easier way to check this would be to try and get Rawr or simcraft to somehow disagree with the gear list in the thread. Even if the numbers are slightly different, but the maxdps gearset is the same, it's a non-issue. That's a lot easier than getting a raid together to fight a target dummy.

1) the purpose of this thread is BiS gear found in Enhsim , that what is used. It is pointless to protect it's "universal" status.

2) there is Rawr BiS list already, anyone can find it using optimizer, and it is different.
[Enhancement] Discussion on Ulduar Loot List & BiS

3) Simcrafft team uses BiS gear for reports such as this
SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code
but I do not know if they find it with simcraft or export from other sources

4) and as you asked (Off-topic):
Downloads - enhsim - Google Code there were 64 Tukez' updates over 9 month (7 per month), comparing to EnhSim - Release: v1.8.1 5 updates + 2 (v 1.7.0.1 and 1.7.0.2) over 3 month (2.3 per month), so my claim about update frequency being much lower now is correct.
Sim's current accuracy is not meassured with the number of past updates, one may claim that current version is absolutly correct ("not guilty until proven" style). Number of updates can only hint to how much work is needed to make it better and better.

Vespasian · 07/18/09, 12:47 PM

Donadon, thank you for your efforts but the combat log you have submitted was invalid and when corrected, netted about 7311 DPS.

Yo! wrote:
My point is - this maxdps number and BiS list are completely dependant on current version of one program (if next update will lower the maxdps number - you are going to lower it too, are not you?) and it has to be stated very clearly, not hidden into disclaimer part alongside with minor conventions.

With regards to the integrity of Enhsim, I go to great lengths to clarify its role in this project. To quote the introductory post:

How is ‘highest potential dps’ defined?
For the purposes of this exercise, ‘highest potential dps’ is defined as the maximum possible DPS achievable within the current version Enhsim DPS simulator created Turkez (EnhSim - Home with the latest executable authored by Sylvand). [...]

It is important to understand the limitations of simulation. Simulation offers a glimpse of character performance under perfect conditions- set latency, no human reaction delay, no system lag, a perfect rotation on a stationary target for thousands of hours. Your actual results will vary greatly from what you observe in the sim, but the sim will give you a clear indication of maximum DPS potential.

I explain that 'highest potential DPS' is defined as that achieved within Enhsim, and I then go on to explain the limitations of simulation (your actual results will vary greatly). I do not think an entire section devoted to this matter constitutes an effort to conceal the nature of our methodology. The information is neither hidden nor along side 'minor conventions'.

Coming back to Cat's, I will take some time to consider some alternatives to the way we are currently approaching things.

Vespasian · 07/18/09, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Yo!

1) the purpose of this thread is BiS gear found in Enhsim , that what is used. It is pointless to protect it's "universal" status.

2) there is Rawr BiS list already, anyone can find it using optimizer, and it is different.
[Enhancement] Discussion on Ulduar Loot List & BiS

3) Simcrafft team uses BiS gear for reports such as this
SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code
but I do not know if they find it with simcraft or export from other sources

I think you are comparing a number of things here that are quite different. This thread is not devoted solely to BiS gear but also to a BiS setup that supports that gear (gems, enchants, talents, glyphs, rotations etc). Rawr does not give us a chance to manipulate our ability priority order, so its DPS output is going to be based on a static priority list that may not always suit our gear (PVP totem providing a buff from LL for instance), our Glyphs (ES_SS priority would be affected by SS glyph) and ability priority order (MW3_CL results in huge OOM time if mana talents are not present). Given this, we can at least agree that Rawr is insufficient as a DPS measurement tool and that its results are going to be inaccurate.

I will admit that I am unfamiliar with Simcraft, however one of the Simcraft authors recently posted that his results were within 1% of Enhsim results. We can then generally say that Enhsim and Simcraft are extremely similar in their modelling of the game environment, so we can discuss it in the same way we do Enhsim.

Since Enhsim has a year of updates on an in-game environment that has changed little in that time (the core, underlying mechanics of WoW have not changed greatly) and since the Sim is still being updated atm (recent ArP calculation changes, v1.8.1 changes to swing timer resets on casts [still being tested]) I think we can say that it is a fairly accurate tool that for our purposes.

Obviously the tool is never going to be 100% accurate, but given that no superior simulation tool currently exists, that its functionality meets our needs and that it has survived for a year as a respected, reviewed and updated tool, I think we can say that is the most appropriate and accurate tool for a project such as this. Again, I will say that I make our reliance upon this tool very clear in the introductory post.

If you are able to point us to a more accurate DPS simulation environment/tool I would be keen to explore that as a new standard for this thread.

kurai01 · 07/20/09, 3:55 PM

cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750

Raising the minimum mana amount required to trigger Shamanistic Rage will also improve the reported EnhSim DPS. I would cite the exact increase, but I'm using EnhSim 1.8.1 and my output exceeds your reported value with your config. That said, I've always found 750 to be too low when my OOM time was greater than 0.

Try setting it to 2000, this value brings the OOM time to 0.01%. (from your reported 0.18%) The greater the initial OOM %, the more impact increasing this time represents, but don't go past 0% as it will result in a decrease to reported DPS.

ksubi · 07/23/09, 10:49 AM

Current DPS: ~7430

EnhSim Config:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       2000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         10
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              MW3_CL
rotation_priority10             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.7
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         34.42
oh_crit                         34.42
mh_hit                          13.02
oh_hit                          13.02
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              4646
melee_haste                     11.42
armor_penetration               5.12
str                             141
agi                             970
int                             502
spi                             161
spellpower                      1394
spell_crit                      25.07
spell_hit                       16.28
spell_haste                     8.78
max_mana                        11646
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        45522

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

DPS Report:

EnhSim version 1.8.2

................................................................................

MH:
miss                957968         7.97%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2883746        23.99%
hit                 2278778        18.96%
crit                5899503        49.08%
clip                333026         2.70%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.09%
procs/swings        15.00%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2026845        47.94%
crit                2201313        52.06%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 994614         47.97%
crit                1078718        52.03%

OH:
miss                960182         7.99%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2884855        24.00%
hit                 2278075        18.95%
crit                5896881        49.06%
clip                333028         2.70%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9399447        60.90%
crit                6034299        39.10%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 994027         47.94%
crit                1079305        52.06%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1535791        60.93%
crit                984916         39.07%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1102387        47.92%
crit                1198216        52.08%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1460944        60.81%
crit                941599         39.19%

Chain Lightning:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 791180         60.96%
crit                506667         39.04%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2275008        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               579162         6.49%
glancing            2145230        24.02%
hit                 5180722        58.02%
crit                1024620        11.47%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 59.04

flurry uptime                  95.80%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.78%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.64%
oh enchant uptime              37.95%
trinket1 uptime                20.52%
trinket2 uptime                18.08%
totem uptime                   76.69%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.83     5.97%
replenishment       34.97     11.70%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.81      2.95%
shamanistic rage    136.73    45.75%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         100.54    33.64%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2134.69   28.72%    80.13
windfury            893.78    12.03%    7.05
flametongue         576.57    7.76%     51.45
stormstrike         472.92    6.36%     6.91      38.08     12.27%
lava lash           387.06    5.21%     7.67      21.13     6.81%
magma totem         567.57    7.64%     2.82      52.36     16.88%
earth shock         606.77    8.16%     8.40      54.30     17.50%
lightning bolt      825.52    11.11%    8.01      58.68     18.91%
chain lightning     423.53    5.7%      4.33      82.41     26.56%
lightning shield    243.64    3.28%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       300.49    4.04%     0.40      3.31      1.07%

DPS                 7432.53
MPS                 310.25
MP2min              37229.97
MRPS                321.66
Out of mana time    0.02%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 20.88s
simulation speed: 862110x

Link to Rawr File: 001.xml

As per the instructions I did sim this in the 1.7.0 to calculate mana, however I came across a problem with it whereby I would never get below 2% out of mana time.
I thought this strange and tried it with the current "Max DPS" gear and spec setup and it simmed the same so perhaps I've done something wrong in my config.
Any feedback would be great.

Levva · 07/23/09, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Rawr does not give us a chance to manipulate our ability priority order, so its DPS output is going to be based on a static priority list that may not always suit our gear (PVP totem providing a buff from LL for instance), our Glyphs (ES_SS priority would be affected by SS glyph) and ability priority order (MW3_CL results in huge OOM time if mana talents are not present). Given this, we can at least agree that Rawr is insufficient as a DPS measurement tool and that its results are going to be inaccurate.

As the person who brought Rawr up to patch 3.0+ standards I'd be happy to work with you to improve Rawr to cater for what you believe to be missing. At present it uses the standard priority list as commonly used in EnhSim and defaulted to in my other contribution to the Enh Shaman community ShockAndAwe.

I am perfectly capable of adapting Rawr to cater for what you need. I would however agree that at present EnhSim is likely to give better results as its a SIMULATOR and NOT a closed form solution. Part of my testing of Rawr has involved checking its output vs EnhSim. This has mostly lead to improvements in Rawr but from time to time I find bugs in EnhSim and due to my creation of the project on Codeplex and soliciting help to get someone to maintain it we now have a community maintained version of EnhSim where we can get bugs fixed faster.

Yo! However is right we have no independent verification that the Sim is producing the right results. So the BiS calcs can only be said to be BiS according to EnhSim.

It would also be a good idea to maintain say a top 5 set of "BiS" models. So that whenever there was a new version of EnhSim out you could always re-check the top 5 to see if there were any changes as its entirely possible that the current BiS could be knocked off if a bug is found in the sim.

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Since Enhsim has a year of updates on an in-game environment that has changed little in that time (the core, underlying mechanics of WoW have not changed greatly) and since the Sim is still being updated atm (recent ArP calculation changes, v1.8.1 changes to swing timer resets on casts [still being tested]) I think we can say that it is a fairly accurate tool that for our purposes.

This simply isn't true. EnhSim came into existence during Sunwell Raiding after Yo!'s sim which was the primary sim everyone was using up until that point had ceased to be current. BTW for that reason alone you'd be wise to understand that Yo! does know what he is talking about when it comes to Simulators. Tukez then actively maintained it until March/April this year since when he has been afk.

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth about lack of updates an update came out in the shape of version 1.7.0.3. Then in order to promote a community shared source I created the EnhSim codeplex site and hosted the latest source there. Sylvand then a couple of weeks ago agreed to update the source.

Thus it is wrong to say that EnhSim has had a year of updates, it was heavily maintained up until mid April then a complete lack of updates until mid June then nothing for a month until v1.8.0 and the latest changes this weekend past. ie: only one minor update in 3 months until Sylvand came onboard and did his updates recently.

Vespasian · 07/24/09, 2:02 AM

Run speed enchants to boots

I looked at this issue in great detail as the math that was provided on the TTT was totally incomprehensible to me and I was deferring to community consensus on the issue rather than to a clear understanding based on numbers. I decided to go back and do my own. I will be the first to admit that my math is generally pretty unreliable, so please correct it as you see fit. I do anticipate that at least some of the math in this post will be incorrect.

The following post is EXTREMELY simplistic in its explanation, bordering on patronising. Believe me that its style is for my benefit alone, and I apologise for how laboriously it reads.

Run speed provides a speed increase of 8%. Broken down:

If you are running for 1 second, you will get to your destination 0.080 seconds faster.
If you are running for 1 minute, you will get to your destination 4.8 seconds faster.
If you are running for 5 minutes, you will get to your destination 24 seconds faster.
If you are running for 10 minutes, you will get to your destination 48 seconds faster.

Using a BiS set up (roughly 7400 DPS), Cat’s Swiftness over Icewalker nets a 20DPS decrease. Broken down:

Over a minute encounter, this is 1200 total dmg
Over a 5 minute encounter this is 6000 total dmg
Over a 10 minute encounter this is 12000 total dmg

Using a 7400 DPS build, we can then ask how much extra DPS time we need on the target to off-set this lost 12000 dmg?

12000 dmg lost/7400 DPS (how much DMG you do) = 1.6 seconds.

So in a 10 minute encounter:

If you GAIN an extra 1.6 seconds worth of DPS time on the target as a result of your Cat’s Swiftness enchant, then you have not lost any dmg- you have broken even versus Icewalker.
If you do not gain an extra 1.6 seconds on the target, then you have in fact lost dmg vs Icewalker. Icewalker would have given you 12000 dmg, where as your run speed has given you less.
If you gain more than 1.6 seconds on the target, then you have gained more DPS than what Icewalker would have been able to provide. Icewalker would have given you 12000 dmg, but your ability to DPS the boss for longer means that you will do more total dmg.

We must then work out how much running we have to do to for run speed enchant to get us to our destination 1.6 seconds faster. This 1.6 second GAIN must logically be 8% of the total non-DPS travel time (since run speed is an 8% speed increase). So over a 10 minute encounter, that equates to:

X/100*8=1.6 seconds
X= 20 seconds

So:

If during a 10 minute encounter you are geared to do 7400 DPS and you spend 20 seconds travelling between DPS targets, Cat's Swiftness will get you to your target 1.6 seconds faster than if you did not have the enchant, and that 1.6 seconds worth of DPS time would equate to 12000 dmg, the same amount of dmg that Icewalker provides over the course of 10mins.
Travel for more than 20 seconds and you gain even more total dmg on your target (more than the 12000 dmg provided by Icewalker) and so the run speed enchant is superior.
Travel for less than 20 seconds and the run speed enchant has not provided the required 12000 dmg, making Icewalker better.

I wanted to apply these results to Ulduar. The following is a list of Ulduar encounters and the approximate travelling time an Enh Shaman would be forced to endure. All listings are for the hard modes. I am aware that these values are highly subject to both your guild’s strats and RNG (getting chain gravity bombed on XT for instance). They are however entirely accurate in my experience, and I will guess that most people have had similar experiences.

Encounter	Duration	Avg run time	Explanation
Razorscale	5m	0-10s	Running between groups of adds. Running to Razor when she lands..
Ignis	5m	0s	You are constantly on the boss
XT	10m	0-20s	Running out for gravity bombs
Iron Council	8m	10-20s	Running out for 4 (four) overloads/runes of death (depending on strat)
Kolargon	5m	0-10s	Running back to boss after being grabbed
Auriaya	5m	5-10s	Running back after fears
Hodir	3m	5-10s	Running between Frozen targets on the pull, then running to boss.
Thorim	7m	0-10s	Running out to meet an add to begin DPS early (as you walk it back to the middle).
Freya	10m	30s+	Running between various adds and trees
Mimiron	9m	30s+	Avoiding his AoE, chasing adds in P3
General	9m	0s	You are constantly on the boss
Yogg	12m	30s+	Running between adds, tentacles and the brain rooms.
Algalon	8m	10-20s	Avoiding Cosmic Smashes, running in and out of portals for Big Bang.

In your average 5 minute encounter, someone pushing 7400 DPS will need to be running for more than 10 seconds to see run speed as the superior enchant. At a more realistic 6k DPS, the shaman will need to be running for 12.5 secs to reach the break even point. In the case of many examples listed above, the run speed provides either a breakeven benefit or no benefit at all. The only examples where run speed clearly provides superior DPS are Freya, Mimi and Yogg. The rest have very limited run times that are dependent upon luck of the draw, and even then your number may number come up (admittedly, your number might be also be spammed, in which case the run speed would be superior).

Conclusion
I set out to challenge the consensus that run speed will provide superior DPS on most encounters and should therefore be considered the single BiS enchant. Looking at these numbers, I am not convinced that run speed provides a clear, superior DPS benefit over Icewalker in a majority of encounters because:
1) Many encounters derive no benefit from the enchant whatsoever;
2) Many encounters will see the total dmg gained from run speed being roughly equal to that provided by Icewalker.

I would however note the scalability of run speed vs Icewalker. As your DPS increases, the value of run speed over Icewalker increases greatly. We seem to be a point in the content cycle where the duration of encounters and our DPS intersect to make both of these enchants equally viable. This will change in time as average DPS increases. For now however, I am of the opinion that run speed provides no clear benefit over Icewalker to the point where we must make it a mandatory aspect of this exercise. I will continue to allow Icewalker as an enchant, pending the discussion that my flawed math and generic encounter descriptions will generate.