[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion - Page 9

Delsin · 09/04/09, 4:14 PM

I've been reading these threads for a while, and earlier today I had decided to test a few things with the BiS list that was posted.
After downloading the Xml file and opening it in Rawr v2.2.14 I noticed that Master's Inscription of the Axe was being used instead of [Greater Inscription of the Axe].

After changing it, I exported the data to EnhSim(which I made sure was configured as listed in the Original Post) and ran the sim. I came out with ~9345 dps with 5000hr simulation.

These are my config files; if someone would like to double check my results.

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       4000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             MW3_LB
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         41.73
oh_crit                         41.73
mh_hit                          15.25
oh_hit                          15.25
mh_expertise_rating             138
oh_expertise_rating             138
ap                              5744
melee_haste                     11.54
armor_penetration               22.90
str                             151
agi                             1347
int                             742
spi                             171
spellpower                      1723
spell_crit                      29.30
spell_hit                       19.06
spell_haste                     8.87
max_mana                        15246
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        47464

totem                           47666

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

And the Dps results.

EnhSim version 1.8.3.3

................................................................................

MH:
miss                753570         5.74%
dodge               5157           0.04%
glancing            3148005        24.00%
hit                 1431311        10.91%
crit                7780032        59.31%
average ap          8836.51        
clip                535309         3.92%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.96%
procs/swings        14.21%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               1797           0.04%
hit                 1621765        37.65%
crit                2683396        62.30%
average ap          8836.42        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               847            0.04%
hit                 766609         37.68%
crit                1267114        62.28%
average ap          8820.74        

OH:
miss                753477         5.74%
dodge               5306           0.04%
glancing            3147424        23.99%
hit                 1419800        10.82%
crit                7792066        59.40%
average ap          8854.62        
clip                535311         3.92%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9478325        56.51%
crit                7294030        43.49%
average sp          3255.23        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               814            0.04%
hit                 764666         37.60%
crit                1268243        62.36%
average ap          8846.40        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1556834        56.55%
crit                1196303        43.45%
average sp          3252.60        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               967            0.04%
hit                 896555         37.65%
crit                1483601        62.31%
average ap          8842.91        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1926728        56.52%
crit                1482488        43.48%
average sp          3253.39        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3701116        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3257.23        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2143538        24.00%
hit                 5761882        64.51%
crit                1026274        11.49%
average ap          8850.97        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4729529        56.50%
crit                3641048        43.50%
average sp          3254.52        

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 51.24

flurry uptime                  98.28%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   84.42%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.36%
oh enchant uptime              37.64%
trinket1 uptime                20.67%
trinket2 uptime                32.49%
totem uptime                   86.33%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.93     7.30%
replenishment       44.93     18.31%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.25      3.77%
shamanistic rage    173.32    70.62%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               3012.66   32.24%    87.45
windfury            1129.21   12.08%    7.18
flametongue         668.30    7.15%     55.91
stormstrike         516.72    5.53%     6.78      37.37     14.49%
lava lash           403.60    4.32%     7.94      21.87     8.48%
magma totem         621.06    6.65%     2.84      52.83     20.48%
earth shock         911.18    9.75%     9.18      59.30     22.99%
lightning bolt      1310.26   14.02%    11.36     83.26     32.28%
lightning shield    425.98    4.56%     1.49      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       346.84    3.71%     0.40      3.31      1.28%

DPS                 9345.80
MPS                 257.93
MP2min              30951.66
MRPS                265.03
Out of mana time    0.03%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 28.36s
simulation speed: 634786x

If required I can post the unmodified config and outputs to show that I also received a result of ~9405 dps with the original file.

EDIT:I edited the sim time to 5000hr.

Tronso · 09/04/09, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Were you running the sim for 10 minute combat intervals? Since that is close to the dps you get if you have combat set to 5 minutes intervals instead of 10 (9538 with the current BiS set and combat set to 5 min intervals to be exact).

Ya I had combat length set to 10 min
I loaded Vespasian's BIS xml file into Rawr made the gem changes then I loaded Vespasian's BiS config into enhsimgui and then imported from Rawr. I added t9_battlegear_4 to the set bonus since it doesn't get imported and I changed sim time to 50,000 from 5,000.

Edited: switched from Master's Inscription of the Axe to [Greater Inscription of the Axe] and got 9432.83 with ap and ap/crit gems swapped with haste and ap/haste

Rawr xml file

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Region>US</Region>
  <Race>Tauren</Race>
  <Class>Shaman</Class>
  <ActiveBuffs>Strength of Earth Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhancing Totems (Agility/Strength)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Unleashed Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sanctified Retribution</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Swift Retribution</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Rampage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Elemental Oath</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Wrath of Air Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Totem of Wrath (Spell Power)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Divine Spirit</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sunder Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Faerie Fire</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Totem of Wrath</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Savage Combat</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Shadow Bolt</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Curse of the Elements</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Misery</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of Endless Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Potion of Speed</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Bloodlust</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhance T9 2 Piece</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhance T9 4 Piece</ActiveBuffs>
  <CalculationOptions>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Enhance</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsEnhance xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;AverageLag&gt;250&lt;/AverageLag&gt;
  &lt;MainhandImbue&gt;Windfury&lt;/MainhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;OffhandImbue&gt;Flametongue&lt;/OffhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;FightLength&gt;6&lt;/FightLength&gt;
  &lt;TargetFireResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetFireResistance&gt;
  &lt;TargetNatureResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetNatureResistance&gt;
  &lt;Magma&gt;true&lt;/Magma&gt;
  &lt;BaseStatOption&gt;true&lt;/BaseStatOption&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsEnhance&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Bear</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsBear xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;ThreatScale&gt;10&lt;/ThreatScale&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;SurvivalSoftCap&gt;160000&lt;/SurvivalSoftCap&gt;
  &lt;TargetDamage&gt;65000&lt;/TargetDamage&gt;
  &lt;TargetAttackSpeed&gt;2&lt;/TargetAttackSpeed&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMaul xsi:nil="true" /&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMangle&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseMangle&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseSwipe&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseSwipe&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseLacerate&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseLacerate&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsBear&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Elemental</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsElemental xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;BSRatio&gt;75&lt;/BSRatio&gt;
  &lt;FightDuration&gt;300&lt;/FightDuration&gt;
  &lt;ManaPot&gt;0&lt;/ManaPot&gt;
  &lt;UseThunderstorm&gt;true&lt;/UseThunderstorm&gt;
  &lt;rotationType&gt;0&lt;/rotationType&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsElemental&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
  </CalculationOptions>
  <CurrentModel>Enhance</CurrentModel>
  <EnforceMetagemRequirements>false</EnforceMetagemRequirements>
  <Head>48358.41285.40128.0.3817</Head>
  <Neck>47433.40118.0.0.0</Neck>
  <Shoulders>48360.40118.0.0.3808</Shoulders>
  <Back>47546.40118.0.0.3831</Back>
  <Chest>47412.40159.49110.40128.3832</Chest>
  <Wrist>47442.40128.0.0.3756</Wrist>
  <Hands>48357.40128.0.0.1603</Hands>
  <Waist>47472.40128.40159.40128.0</Waist>
  <Legs>48359.42702.40159.0.3823</Legs>
  <Feet>47457.40128.40128.0.3826</Feet>
  <Finger1>47443.40128.0.0.3839</Finger1>
  <Finger2>48007.40128.0.0.3839</Finger2>
  <Trinket1>45609.0.0.0.0</Trinket1>
  <Trinket2>47464.0.0.0.0</Trinket2>
  <MainHand>47475.40156.0.0.3789</MainHand>
  <OffHand>47475.40156.0.0.3789</OffHand>
  <Ranged>47666.0.0.0.0</Ranged>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
  <WarriorTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</WarriorTalents>
  <PaladinTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</PaladinTalents>
  <HunterTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</HunterTalents>
  <RogueTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</RogueTalents>
  <PriestTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</PriestTalents>
  <ShamanTalents>05303205000000000000000003020503310502133303113103105100000000000000000000000000.00000000000001000100001000000</ShamanTalents>
  <MageTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000</MageTalents>
  <WarlockTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</WarlockTalents>
  <DruidTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000</DruidTalents>
  <DeathKnightTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</DeathKnightTalents>
  <CustomItemInstances />
  <WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>false</HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>false</WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
</Character>

Enhsim config

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 50000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       4000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             MW3_LB
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         40.43
oh_crit                         40.43
mh_hit                          14.94
oh_hit                          14.94
mh_expertise_rating             128
oh_expertise_rating             128
ap                              5444
melee_haste                     20.66
armor_penetration               22.90
str                             151
agi                             1347
int                             742
spi                             171
spellpower                      1633
spell_crit                      27.99
spell_hit                       18.68
spell_haste                     15.89
max_mana                        15246
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        47464

totem                           47666

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Sprinter · 09/04/09, 7:22 PM

If you tweak the talens a bit, you are able to get ~ 20 dps more.

Remove 2 points from improved shields and spend them in reverberation.

Vespasian · 09/04/09, 10:48 PM

Updated

1) Apologies for the shoulder enchant issue. The shear number of variables that I need to keep track of between Rawr, Enhsim and this page mean that some things slip through. Thanks for pointing them out.
2) 1/3 Imp shields and 4/5 reverb is indeed superior by about 20 DPS.
3) Haste build: very interesting results here. At this point, I think we need to establish whether the performance of haste at this level is as a result of the typical 'peaks and troughs' associated with haste or whether it is a more consistent value associated with higher hit, ArP, crit and AP levels. We would also need to find out at which point haste becomes better than AP as we gear i.e what is the break even point between haste and AP, if there is such a thing at all.

Either way, for the moment haste is a winner.

Edit: Oh and we are even further under the expertise cap now but it is still the optimal DPS amount. Efforts to drop any more expertise beyond this amount result in a DPS loss.

Makke · 09/05/09, 10:41 AM

Anyone who have simmed the recently 3.2.2 ArP nerf. Would it result in Haste not Simming so high as now so we are back to bacis with stacking Ap/Crit or howcome ? I am curious if anyone has some more relyable data than just the 125 % -> 110 % assumption

P.S. Sorry for my bad English. I am a proud Dane :P

clliche · 09/05/09, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Makke

Anyone who have simmed the recently 3.2.2 ArP nerf. Would it result in Haste not Simming so high as now so we are back to bacis with stacking Ap/Crit or howcome ? I am curious if anyone has some more relyable data than just the 125 % -> 110 % assumption

P.S. Sorry for my bad English. I am a proud Dane :P

Armor pen was never a very good stat for an enhancement shaman to stack. Haste sims well mostly because it gives more flametongue static shock and maelstrom weapon procs. I know some people still prefer to gem straight ap but the armor pen won't affect the value of haste that much. If you want reliable data, simply sim out your ep values and you'll see that crit hate and hit generally all have higher values than armor penetration in the first place

Ryethe · 09/05/09, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by clliche

Armor pen was never a very good stat for an enhancement shaman to stack. Haste sims well mostly because it gives more flametongue static shock and maelstrom weapon procs. I know some people still prefer to gem straight ap but the armor pen won't affect the value of haste that much. If you want reliable data, simply sim out your ep values and you'll see that crit hate and hit generally all have higher values than armor penetration in the first place

Not true. Look at Rouncer's latest sim in the EnhSim thread. In T9 gear ArP can be just as good if not better than crit. This is pre-nerf of course. I expect it to fall back down around Hit with the nerf. As always though, sim it yourself.

Auramere · 09/06/09, 9:13 PM

Do you think the 2 piece Tier 9 is worth breaking the 4 piece T8.5 or should I wait until I have 4 piece T9?

Rani · 09/06/09, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Auramere

Do you think the 2 piece Tier 9 is worth breaking the 4 piece T8.5 or should I wait until I have 4 piece T9?

The following is based on simulating my gear, and while it seems pretty conclusive to me I suggest you try simming with your configuration to verify.

With my gear the tier 8 4-piece bonus is worth about 100 DPS while LS contributes 200 DPS (3/3 Imp. Shields btw), so if I get the tier 9 2-piece bonus I gain another 3% chance to proc static shock, which is 50% more; 50% of 200 DPS is 100 which is the same as the tier 8 4-piece bonus.

Note that the above stats include the Totem of Electrifying Winds which benefits from the tier 8 4-piece bonus. If I ignore the totem and add 400 AP and 120 SP (mental quickness), simulating the fixed Totem of Quaking Earth I get that the tier 8 4-piece bonus is worth 87 DPS while LS is still ~200 DPS, so the tier 9 2-piece bonus will provide 100 DPS which is 13 DPS upgrade.

So yes, it's worth breaking the tier 8 4-piece bonus for the tier 9 2-piece bonus.

And of course the tier 9 pieces also provide more DPS due to stats, but that's a bit off-topic.

EDIT: shouldn't this belong to the simple questions/answers thread?

Tarquino · 09/07/09, 11:52 AM

Did you test this without using the Glyph of Lightning Shield? If not, how much of a DPS gain would using this glyph be? And would it be worth using in lieu of Windfury glyph with Tier 9 2/5 Set bonus?

Rouncer · 09/07/09, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Makke

No imo. It is actually something i also has been thinking alot about and i think a lot of Shamans are thinking the same because of the natural gear upgrades. Having a post where it has been cut out in cheese is quite good

Except that this is a thread devoted to discussing our BiS gear set, so where does splitting T8/T9 bonuses come into play when discussing our BiS set?

Originally Posted by Tarquino

Did you test this without using the Glyph of Lightning Shield? If not, how much of a DPS gain would using this glyph be? And would it be worth using in lieu of Windfury glyph with Tier 9 2/5 Set bonus?

That is what we have a simulator for, which is easier then ever to use since it plays so well with Rawr. Is our BiS set going to be one where we still use 4T8 or even 2T8? No, so stop crapping up this thread and take this stuff to the 3.2 thread or the simple questions thread. The OP was very specific about what this thread is meant to discuss and none of this fits into that model.

Deathicle · 09/08/09, 3:10 PM

First off, the BiS config file is using Tauren instead of Orc and is showing less DPS overall because of that. If the goal is be the BiS for the 'lowest' of races, then you should probably tweak your setup to maintain your expertise cap. If it was designed to use an orc anyway, ignore this portion of my post.

Secondly, I have found a setup that increases damage overall. Start out by adding two points in Improved Shield, taking 3 points from Reverberation and 1 point from Shamanistic Focus and placing 2 points in Improved Stormstrike. Lastly, replace the WF glyph with the Lightning Shield one. I managed to eek out ~9475 dps on average using this setup.

Please note, a bug still exists that seemingly causes the simmulator to randomly take away/fluctuate ~20 dps with the output file. I do not know why it does this, but it still causes me to run the simulator a number of times before I am confident in the results.

### Saved by ALPHA v2! of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       4000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             MW3_LB
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         39.99
oh_crit                         39.99
mh_hit                          14.94
oh_hit                          14.94
mh_expertise_rating             128
oh_expertise_rating             128
ap                              5404
melee_haste                     22.24
armor_penetration               22.90
str                             151
agi                             1347
int                             742
spi                             171
spellpower                      1621
spell_crit                      27.56
spell_hit                       18.68
spell_haste                     17.11
max_mana                        15246
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        47464

totem                           47666

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

EnhSim version 1.8.3.3

................................................................................


MH:
miss                868018         6.08%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3429712        24.01%
hit                 1772930        12.41%
crit                8215538        57.51%
average ap          8465.43
clip                513820         3.47%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          13.81%
procs/swings        13.07%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1684236        39.45%
crit                2585420        60.55%
average ap          8465.63

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 806205         39.42%
crit                1239193        60.58%
average ap          8448.77

OH:
miss                869274         6.08%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3428417        24.00%
hit                 1760744        12.32%
crit                8227760        57.59%
average ap          8482.18
clip                513823         3.47%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 10426199       58.25%
crit                7472655        41.75%
average sp          3143.25

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 806412         39.43%
crit                1238986        60.57%
average ap          8473.32

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1582791        58.22%
crit                1135685        41.78%
average sp          3141.22

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 961656         39.47%
crit                1474879        60.53%
average ap          8470.53

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2117188        58.27%
crit                1516287        41.73%
average sp          3141.48

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3914678        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3145.27

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2147150        24.02%
hit                 5766752        64.52%
crit                1023554        11.45%
average ap          8477.46

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4901897        58.23%
crit                3516179        41.77%
average sp          3142.30

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 54.36

flurry uptime                  97.81%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   83.78%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.39%
oh enchant uptime              37.88%
trinket1 uptime                20.73%
trinket2 uptime                32.52%
totem uptime                   87.81%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.03      0.01%
mp5                 18.07     9.28%
replenishment       45.29     23.27%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.99      4.62%
shamanistic rage    22.72     11.67%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         99.55     51.14%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               3131.52   33.05%    95.24
windfury            1075.92   11.36%    7.12
flametongue         688.41    7.27%     59.66
stormstrike         497.83    5.25%     6.82      37.56     18.31%
lava lash           395.61    4.18%     8.12      22.37     10.90%
magma totem         606.66    6.4%      2.86      53.21     25.93%
earth shock         870.53    9.19%     9.06      0.00      0.00%
lightning bolt      1342.49   14.17%    12.11     88.74     43.25%
lightning shield    527.39    5.57%     1.58      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       338.16    3.57%     0.40      3.31      1.61%

DPS                 9474.51
MPS                 205.19
MP2min              24622.94
MRPS                200.53
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 16.94s
simulation speed: 1062322x

Aximous · 09/08/09, 4:53 PM

The OP states that the bis must be calculated with taurens.

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Race: The shaman must be a Tauren. Tauren was selected as their racials provide no benefits to DPS (Troll Berserk, Orc Command etc) or to stats (Draenei hit, Orc expertise). Any benefits that other races derive as result of their racials is free DPS over and above the benchmark minimum set down by Taurens. As we go forward, there is no reason that separate BiS lists can't be generated for Draenei and Orcs if it becomes evident that a different BiS set up is possible for them. For now though, it would be best to limit as many variables as possible.

Deathicle · 09/08/09, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Aximous

The OP states that the bis must be calculated with taurens.

Even with that being the case, and I question the wisdom of telling players their BiS setup is not being expertise capped, the talent/glyph swaps still result in an overall dps increase.

### Saved by ALPHA v2! of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       4000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             MW3_LB
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         39.99
oh_crit                         39.99
mh_hit                          14.94
oh_hit                          14.94
mh_expertise_rating             128
oh_expertise_rating             128
ap                              5404
melee_haste                     22.24
armor_penetration               22.90
str                             151
agi                             1347
int                             742
spi                             171
spellpower                      1621
spell_crit                      27.56
spell_hit                       18.68
spell_haste                     17.11
max_mana                        15246
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        47464

totem                           47666

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

EnhSim version 1.8.3.3

................................................................................


MH:
miss                867148         6.07%
dodge               48539          0.34%
glancing            3427433        23.99%
hit                 1724316        12.07%
crit                8216668        57.52%
average ap          8464.08
clip                514717         3.48%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          13.82%
procs/swings        13.04%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               14512          0.34%
hit                 1672662        39.28%
crit                2571182        60.38%
average ap          8463.79

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               7015           0.34%
hit                 804743         39.35%
crit                1233175        60.30%
average ap          8447.28

OH:
miss                867492         6.07%
dodge               48672          0.34%
glancing            3431556        24.02%
hit                 1713014        11.99%
crit                8223370        57.57%
average ap          8480.79
clip                514717         3.48%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 10384245       58.24%
crit                7444990        41.76%
average sp          3142.86

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6944           0.34%
hit                 799912         39.25%
crit                1231062        60.41%
average ap          8472.04

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1584681        58.26%
crit                1135104        41.74%
average sp          3140.74

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               8440           0.35%
hit                 959639         39.35%
crit                1470682        60.30%
average ap          8469.32

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2109942        58.24%
crit                1513004        41.76%
average sp          3141.09

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3902833        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3144.75

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2139970        23.95%
hit                 5770586        64.58%
crit                1025514        11.48%
average ap          8477.25

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4905353        58.27%
crit                3513323        41.73%
average sp          3141.88

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 54.14

flurry uptime                  97.79%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   83.74%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.24%
oh enchant uptime              37.71%
trinket1 uptime                20.73%
trinket2 uptime                32.51%
totem uptime                   87.75%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.03      0.02%
mp5                 18.07     9.29%
replenishment       45.29     23.28%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.98      4.62%
shamanistic rage    22.65     11.64%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         99.53     51.16%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               3123.72   33.06%    95.23
windfury            1069.50   11.32%    7.10
flametongue         685.72    7.26%     59.43
stormstrike         495.26    5.24%     6.82      37.56     18.32%
lava lash           394.52    4.18%     8.13      22.39     10.93%
magma totem         606.50    6.42%     2.86      53.21     25.96%
earth shock         870.59    9.21%     9.07      0.00      0.00%
lightning bolt      1338.77   14.17%    12.08     88.48     43.17%
lightning shield    525.74    5.56%     1.57      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       338.25    3.58%     0.40      3.31      1.61%

DPS                 9448.57
MPS                 204.95
MP2min              24594.05
MRPS                200.39
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 17.30s
simulation speed: 1040221x

Vespasian · 09/08/09, 7:51 PM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

Even with that being the case, and I question the wisdom of telling players their BiS setup is not being expertise capped, the talent/glyph swaps still result in an overall dps increase.

Firstly, please take the time to read previous posts. I clearly state that under this set up, being below the expertise cap is superior DPS vs trying to cap it out with additional gems. If you find a higher DPS setup that is expertise capped, you post it here so we can run with that.

Secondly, I made the changes you suggested and netted a DPS decrease (9423). Please go back and double check your findings, and then be sure to include the Rawr sheet that you exported from; it is likely that you have overlooked something and it is skewing your results.

Deathicle · 09/08/09, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by Vespasian

Firstly, please take the time to read previous posts. I clearly state that under this set up, being below the expertise cap is superior DPS vs trying to cap it out with additional gems. If you find a higher DPS setup that is expertise capped, you post it here so we can run with that.

Secondly, I made the changes you suggested and netted a DPS decrease (9423). Please go back and double check your findings, and then be sure to include the Rawr sheet that you exported from; it is likely that you have overlooked something and it is skewing your results.

As I posted in my original post, the EnhanceSim constantly fluctuates by about 20 dps both for your dps setup and mine. Since both the low and high of my dps setup is higher than the low and high of yours, it seems pretty certain it is a higher dps setup overall.

All the proof you need is in what I copied and pasted here.

Schwolop · 09/08/09, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

As I posted in my original post, the EnhanceSim constantly fluctuates by about 20 dps both for your dps setup and mine. Since both the low and high of my dps setup is higher than the low and high of yours, it seems pretty certain it is a higher dps setup overall.

All the proof you need is in what I copied and pasted here.

The proof is not in what you pasted. You haven't supplied a Rawr export, so it's unclear whether the numbers in your EnhSim config are valid. Vespasian made the same talent/glyph changes in Rawr, exported to his own EnhSim config, and obtained different (lower) results to you. Hopefully, given that he followed the thread's required method and you didn't, you can at least see the reasoning behind people assuming your methodology is at fault rather than his.

Deathicle · 09/08/09, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Schwolop

The proof is not in what you pasted. You haven't supplied a Rawr export, so it's unclear whether the numbers in your EnhSim config are valid. Vespasian made the same talent/glyph changes in Rawr, exported to his own EnhSim config, and obtained different (lower) results to you. Hopefully, given that he followed the thread's required method and you didn't, you can at least see the reasoning behind people assuming your methodology is at fault rather than his.

Copy the code used on the first post for BiS gear and paste it in a notepad, name it BiS1 or something catchy. Open up enhancement sim and load up BiS1 (or whatever you named it as). Then change Imp Shields to 3 from 1, Reverberation from 4 to 1, Shamanistic Focus from 1 to 0, Improved Stormstrike from 0 to 2 and switch your WF glyph with LS glyph.

Either 1.8.3.3 is buggy (which I noted that the dps fluctuated by 20-25 dps over different tests which is much more than it does normally) or that setup is better overall. I suspect its an issue with syncing abilities in the Sim.

Schwolop · 09/09/09, 12:01 AM

I have just done exactly this, and run each four times. The front page BiS list gives 9435 +/- 1; yours gives 9424 +/- 1 (rounding to the nearest integer).

Khelge · 09/10/09, 10:27 AM

I was just wondering, with the new Flame Shock changes, could it be viable to put that into our rotation again?
(Flame Shock now deals 834 Fire damage over 18 sec at max rank. (Up from 556 fire damage over 12 sec))

Mogonar · 09/10/09, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Khelge

I was just wondering, with the new Flame Shock changes, could it be viable to put that into our rotation again?
(Flame Shock now deals 834 Fire damage over 18 sec at max rank. (Up from 556 fire damage over 12 sec))

That's the exact same number of damage per second: 46. It just lasts longer. This basically means you can get one more Earth Shock in before you would have to re-up Flame Shock. The shock rotation would go from FS->ES->FS to FS->ES->ES->FS.

We can still sim it but my gut tells me that it's not going to be worth it.

soulsever · 09/10/09, 10:48 AM

I did a quick search thou this topic and did not see where this has been posted. But I can confirm that the normal mode and heroic trinkets count as to different trinkets. Last night i picked up my 2nd(heroic version of victors call) while a triable trinket still it proves a point that I could have the normal victors call and the heroic victors calls on at the same time. Now i would assume this will hold true for all the trinkets is it a bug, don't know but i also make the a assumption that means one could use both the heroic and normal modem deaths verdicts.

Mogadee · 09/10/09, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by soulsever

I did a quick search thou this topic and did not see where this has been posted. But I can confirm that the normal mode and heroic trinkets count as to different trinkets. Last night i picked up my 2nd(heroic version of victors call) while a triable trinket still it proves a point that I could have the normal victors call and the heroic victors calls on at the same time. Now i would assume this will hold true for all the trinkets is it a bug, don't know but i also make the a assumption that means one could use both the heroic and normal modem deaths verdicts.

It was already confirmed that you can equip both versions. But does each have a separate buff or do they share the same buff?

Mogonar - FS is not in the normal priority list. Take a look at the first page of this thread. ES does more damage per shock cd than FS and its dots at the moment. However, with the changes to FS glyph which allows the dots to be crits, it may make it back into a shock rotation, provided the sims reflect a dps increase by doing such.

davek · 09/10/09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mogonar

That's the exact same number of damage per second: 46. It just lasts longer. This basically means you can get one more Earth Shock in before you would have to re-up Flame Shock. The shock rotation would go from FS->ES->FS to FS->ES->ES->FS.

We can still sim it but my gut tells me that it's not going to be worth it.

The Flame Shock glyph is now going to let those ticks crit though. I presume not, but Is the Ele T8 2P bonus built into the sim so we can pseudo it?

soulsever · 09/10/09, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mogadee

It was already confirmed that you can equip both versions. But does each have a separate buff or do they share the same buff?

I think one could say that the buffs are separate due to the fact that the stats gain is different on both trinkets. Now do thy share a cool down don't know. I would venture to say no since if you can use both that mens they should both be using a different item#. But then again cant say for certain with out actually having them both.