[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion - Page 9

Sylvand · 08/14/09, 11:35 PM

I don't think having CL in the rotation is a good idea with the totem of electrifying winds. I'm still trying to figure out the best place for MW4_LB but it looks like you can bump up the totem uptime to 80% or so by removing CL, and it looks to be around 50 dps or more gained. I'm currently playing with adding the totem ICD and still getting numbers like this.

Vespasian · 08/15/09, 1:10 AM

I have updated the Rawr sheet link. It was saved on version .13 of Rawr. Please let me know if there are still issues

Sylvand, you are absolutely correct. I am netting around 9200 when I set MW3_LB as last on the priority list after having removed CL altogether. I wont update this further until have finalised the latest version of Enhsim.

JitteryJohnny · 08/15/09, 2:55 AM

I've been looking at everyone's gear on here, and I was wondering why everyone is gemming to max AP and not Agility? I've always had in my mind after 3.2 that AP was best looked upon as a #1 stat in PvP and not PvE.

For instance I notice most of you gemming with a 20 AP and 10 Crit gem.

(My main argument is Kings applied=Agi>AP)

20AP and 10 Crit with Kings=20ap and 10 Crit.

10 Agi and 10 Crit with Kings=10 AP and 15.5 Crit.

Crit means flurry uptime. Agility is substantially affected by kings.

I just am not sure if my logic is wrong or what?

Spectras · 08/15/09, 3:03 AM

Well Zugs, as far as your argument for flurry uptime goes, once you get to a certain crit rate flurry will have a near 100% uptime so it becomes irrelevant as far as that is concerned.

JitteryJohnny · 08/15/09, 3:13 AM

And as far as the Kings argument? i.e when you're in a raid.

Sylvand · 08/15/09, 3:26 AM

Agility doesn't affect spell crit, I think that's its main problem for Enhancement shamans.

JitteryJohnny · 08/15/09, 3:43 AM

But neither does AP. The only thing I can think of in regards to AP positively affecting our spells is Mental Quickness, and in that case its only 2% less damage and I am still getting my flurry procs.

Falcon213 · 08/15/09, 6:19 AM

Spell power (mostly received from AP through Mental Quickness) is what makes ~40% of our damage scale (LB, ES, Magma, and FT) which are also affected by spell crit.

If you doubt us, run the sim and find your EP values for agi. It should be somewhere bewteen 1.5-1.7 per 1 AP. And since 2AP = 1Agi in blizzard itemization points, I think you can see how gemming for pure AP is better.

Edit:
Also, I got to look at my WWS from the other day, and I had exactly 80% uptime on ToEW for XT Hard getting no sparks/bombs. Its value obviously goes down for fights with downtime/movement or fights where CL shines (e.g. Kologarn). I think it would be interesting to find the lower bound for uptime to where it would be better to use Hex, although I think this might be a moot point.

Spectras · 08/15/09, 10:11 AM

It comes down to EP values. Most people most of the time will have a crit value of lower than 2. Crit, from what I've seen in a lot of EP charts, tends to hover around 1.9, and sometimes reaching 2.0 or 2.05. If you take a 20 ap 10 crit gem that ends up being 39-40 EP points (20x1, 10x1.95). Now agility has an EP value thats all together different, and you cant start directly converting them. Using my numbers for example, I currently have an EP value for agility of 1.8. So a 10 agi 10 crit gem would be ~38 EP. (10x1.8 10x1.95).

Thats my attempt at explaining it, if I am wrong it doesn't really matter, because all that matters in this game are results. I do not have the time to do it this weekend, but if you want, sim my stats. Then change all my 40 AP to 20 Agi, and all my 20 ap 10 crit into 10 agi 10 crit, and sim it again. I guarantee it will go down, and that is a good enough reason for me.

Also, simming for straight AP is significantly more consistent. Like I said before, the EP values for other stats tend to fluctuate, and except for haste very few of them get well above pure AP to be worth it.

Yoquh · 08/15/09, 7:56 PM

When i put in the stats i get from exporting my char with the same gear as the OP to enhsim, i don't get the same stats for my char.

From the first post:

 ### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         43.51
oh_crit                         43.51
mh_hit                          13.75
oh_hit                          13.75
mh_expertise_rating             148
oh_expertise_rating             148
ap                              5747
melee_haste                     10.90
armor_penetration               19.24
str                             145
agi                             1321
int                             689
spi                             165
spellpower                      1724
spell_crit                      31.07
spell_hit                       17.19
spell_haste                     8.39
max_mana                        14451
mp5                             0

My stats:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         42.08
oh_crit                         42.08
mh_hit                          12.90
oh_hit                          12.90
mh_expertise_rating             139
oh_expertise_rating             139
ap                              5565
melee_haste                     10.90
armor_penetration               19.24
str                             145
agi                             1269
int                             651
spi                             165
spellpower                      1670
spell_crit                      30.04
spell_hit                       16.13
spell_haste                     8.39
max_mana                        13881
mp5                             0

Mengus · 08/17/09, 11:17 AM

[quote=Yoquh;1352312]When i put in the stats i get from exporting my char with the same gear as the OP to enhsim, i don't get the same stats for my char.

Were you using the same gems/chants?

Myranne · 08/17/09, 11:38 AM

There is currently a gear setup via Rawr! that is reaching 9791 dps (according to Rawr, and it doesn't appear to have any of the ilvl 272 items in its cache.) but sadly EnhSim cannot seem to find the trinkets and their procs... anyway to solve the issue so I can get the combat log simulation done properly and post here?

Sylvand · 08/17/09, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Myranne

There is currently a gear setup via Rawr! that is reaching 9791 dps (according to Rawr, and it doesn't appear to have any of the ilvl 272 items in its cache.) but sadly EnhSim cannot seem to find the trinkets and their procs... anyway to solve the issue so I can get the combat log simulation done properly and post here?

You can post issues like these in the EnhSim thread. Can you list the gear setup there or PM it to me? AFAIK there is only one trinket not implemented in the latest EnhSim version, although I'm not sure what ilvl 272 gear you're talking about.

Gondlem · 08/18/09, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sylvand

You can post issues like these in the EnhSim thread. Can you list the gear setup there or PM it to me? AFAIK there is only one trinket not implemented in the latest EnhSim version, although I'm not sure what ilvl 272 gear you're talking about.

Presumably the cloaks from the tribute chest? Sylvanas' Cunning for example.

n3m3sis · 08/20/09, 4:16 AM

Did anyone actually sim [Reign of the Unliving] ? If the charges proc from flametongue (like TC and LC ) would definitely be the best trinket, if not can still be open for discussion.