[Enhancement] Patch 3.3 - Page 11

Levva · 11/12/09, 8:53 PM

Oh great as if the fist weapons procs weren't awkward enough to model now we have ...

Deathbringer's Will - Items - Sigrie

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Melee Trinket
Instant cast
Your attacks have a chance to awaken the powers of the races of Northrend, 
temporarily transforming you and increasing your combat capabilities for 30 sec.

How vague can they get? Any ideas how to model that?

pintor · 11/12/09, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Levva

Oh great as if the fist weapons procs weren't awkward enough to model now we have ...

Deathbringer's Will - Items - Sigrie

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Melee Trinket
Instant cast
Your attacks have a chance to awaken the powers of the races of Northrend, 
temporarily transforming you and increasing your combat capabilities for 30 sec.

How vague can they get? Any ideas how to model that?

From my understanding, it has a chance to increase strength, agility, haste etc. My expectation is that it will be like the greatness/death's verdict trinkets.

For example, one of the buffs is:

Agility of the Wolvar - Spells - Sigrie

and Power of the Taunka - Spells - Sigrie

So, until someone gets this and we can see some testing on it, we will not be able to know if all of them have a chance to come up (there's 6 or 7 different ones) or if it is class or stat specific.

Juzin · 11/13/09, 3:53 AM

Originally Posted by Levva

Assuming the worst that it is MH swings only ie: the weapon procs from its own swings, then the swing rate will be around 1.2-1.4 hasted. Which is 428-500 swings per 10 min combat 1% proc is 4 or 5 hits per 10 min combat. Lets say 5 procs in 10 mins that 50 sec or 8.33% uptime. 9% physical damage at 8.33% uptime is a 0.075% PHYSICAL damage boost.

On the current BiS set roughly 54.85% of the damage is physical so this is a 0.00411% damage boost proc. ie: say 9445 dps BiS this is 38.85 dps from the proc = pathetic.

Mixed up some %-values? However the 38.85 dps are correct, but the wrong %-values are confusing ^^

I have a general question regarding the new FireNova and his influence to weapon enchants...
I think u alrdy modelled it in your Sim? @Levva

If FireNova gets in our prio and with the new totem, even AP-Enhancer won't use LL that often anymore, right?
Is there still a difference between WF/WF and WF/FT?

thx

PS sry for my bad english :x

Deathicle · 11/13/09, 4:06 AM

I would imagine, based on previous data that suggest FN does at least as much damage as LL does in a single target setting, that many players will incorporate FN into their rotation: especially when there are multiple targets to fight (something virtually every boss encounter in WotLK thus far seems to have). It seems likely then that many players will move away from haste and back towards gemming for AP in red slots, and ap/haste or ap/crit in yellow slots.

nxg · 11/13/09, 4:52 AM

Strength of the Vrykul – Grants the form and strength of the Frost Giants for 30 sec. (600 str)
Agility of the Wolvar – Grants the form and agility of the Wolvar for 30 sec. (600 agi)
Power of the Taunka – Grants the form and attack power of the Taunka for 30 sec. (1200 ap)
Precision of the Iron Dwarves – Grants the form and precision of the Iron Dwarves for 30 sec. (600 arp)
Aim of the Tuskarr – Grants the form and aim of the Tuskarr for 30 sec. (600 crit)
Speed of the Gorloc – Grants the form and speed of the Gorloc for 30 sec. (600 haste)

(The effect names seem to be random among the pages, these are from mmo-champion, wowhead has aim of the iron dwarves, agility of the vrykul instead etc instead, and if I remember right it was Strength of the Frost Giants on mmo-champion when the procs were first discovered)

Those are the effects of the trinket (though I think I have at least one missing).

We have 7 classes who get use of the trinket Shaman, Warrior, Paladin, Rogue, Hunter, Druids and Death Knights, in case I forgot one it would fit the amount of effects, though I don't think it will work like that but rather that you gain a random effect.
If it is dependent on class and we get 1200 ap (not sure if they wanted the haste on for us), then it's probably easy BiS for us, if not it would need some good testing, though it's probably quite good even if it's a random effect.

It's unlikely, though, that it works like Grandeur and Death's Choice/Verdict, considering that the classes who get the most out of strength and agility will still always have more AP and the other effects wouldn't proc for anyone (besides haste for us, though we would still have more than AP then our haste two times).

Levva · 11/13/09, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

I would imagine, based on previous data that suggest FN does at least as much damage as LL does in a single target setting, that many players will incorporate FN into their rotation: especially when there are multiple targets to fight (something virtually every boss encounter in WotLK thus far seems to have). It seems likely then that many players will move away from haste and back towards gemming for AP in red slots, and ap/haste or ap/crit in yellow slots.

I suspect you are right our big problem with EnhSim will be that it doesn't have any means of knowing about multi targets and thus will still happily tell us that haste is great. Adding a Boss Handler is beyond the scope of where EnhSim is, it would need a ground up re-write to cope.

Rouncer · 11/13/09, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by Juzin

If FireNova gets in our priorities and with the new totem, even AP-Enhancer won't use LL that often anymore, right?
Is there still a difference between WF/WF and WF/FT?

Just checked on the sim and even if you remove LL from the rotation WF/FT is still significantly more dps then WF/WF. Even if you remove the major spell enhancing raid debuffs (CoE and ToW) WF/FT is still significantly better then WF/WF so WF/FT isn't going to change with the introduction of Fire Nova.

rava · 11/14/09, 2:31 AM

Looks like the glyph was lowered to 5 mins with the latest PTR build:

Starfox · 11/15/09, 3:56 AM

Originally Posted by Levva

Two new Relic slot totems...

[Totem of the Avalanche] and [Bizuri's Totem of Shattered Ice] Hmmm. EJ forum changed my url with ptr.wowhead into item links pointing to www. wowhead and so links break.

Totem of the Avalanche - Items - Sigrie and Bizuri's Totem of Shattered Ice - Items - Sigrie

From the work I did on Rawr.Enhance adding them it looks like they give a small dps boost on existing T9 totems, and are once again fairly close together so choice will probably depend if you go for haste or AP.

[Edit] I've also added in support in Rawr for Black Bruise - Items - Sigrie and its AWFUL. A 1% proc rate on melee swing?? Now I've modelled this as 1% on melee hit which might downgrade it slightly as I doubt it procs if you miss but who knows, we'll need to test it when someone gets their hands on it.

It seriously lacks other stats and comes out marginally BELOW the Hellscream Slicer/Stormpike Cleaver 245 version ie: NON heroic weapon version.

Now there are a number of caveats here, does the 9% damage simply mean a raw 9% boost to all our damage? This is what I modelled it as. Does the "as shadow damage" part make any significant difference eg: treated as a spell so ignores armour? This would mean my model was wrong. Does it proc on melee hit or simply on weapon swing? Does it refer to the weapon swing of THIS weapon or either weapon? If its this weapon only then the number of swings that can proc it is a LOT lower and it falls even further down the list.

[edit2] I just noted that it does 9% bonus MELEE damage I'd modelled it as bonus damage (ie: including spells) this makes it even worse!! It's now coming out slightly worse than Caress of Insanity and The Masticator!!

This is bad bad news folks.

Any of you happen to have this weapon on PTR?
I added support for it to SimulationCraft and was looking for some tests about the exact behaviour of the additional shadowdamage

Eonone · 11/15/09, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

We're going to want both totems unless Blizzard changes how they work. Equip Shattered Ice and let it stack up. Equip Avalanche, eating 1 GCD, and continue dpsing as normal. Swap in Shattered Ice whenever you need to refresh your DoT and then swap back to Avalanche after the DoT ticks once. Shouldn't be hard to manage for a significant stat boost and I would expect Resto to start doing the same thing unless they change the buffs so that they are tied to the relics.

I may be misreading this, But I wasn't aware the Effect gained from the totems would stack with each other, A little confused because I know the effects gained from the totems we have now don't stack.

Rouncer · 11/15/09, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Eonone

I may be misreading this, But I wasn't aware the Effect gained from the totems would stack with each other, A little confused because I know the effects gained from the totems we have now don't stack.

I was unaware of that and was educated about that change a few posts after mine, [Enhancement] Patch 3.3

Deathicle · 11/17/09, 10:54 PM

Set stats are out for t10!

World of Warcraft Database - Sigrie

HRAE · 11/17/09, 11:04 PM

Creating a set for enhancement was obviously too much work since they copypasted the hunter armor and swapped arp for haste.

Cochice · 11/18/09, 12:25 AM

Sanctified Frost Witch's Shoulderpads - Items - Sigrie

Equip: Periodically calls forth the spirits of the Shoveltusk to bolster the bearer's spirits in battle.

I don't know what it is yet, but that sounds awesome.

Razanar · 11/18/09, 1:04 AM

My only concern with that is that we lose the Expertise from our gloves. Are they expecting us to all-out gem for expertise? I haven't seen it on the other pieces of Mail either.

My Vengeance of the Forsaken might be a valuable commodity come 3.3 =)

And yeah, I agree, the shoulder proc sounds pretty sick. Can't wait to see what it actually does

Revdarian · 11/18/09, 1:15 AM

I really hope that the stats are just placeholders, because an absolute lack of expertise is hard to swallow as non orc.

I mean, i would have to gem all out for expertise as a blacksmith in order to get to the expertise cap while wearing mail... so they better add some to help a little.

Andrast · 11/18/09, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by Revdarian

I mean, i would have to gem all out for expertise as a blacksmith in order to get to the expertise cap while wearing mail... so they better add some to help a little.

This is completely untrue. There are 7 sockets on the 25-man tier set alone (not including offset). Socketing all of them with expertise gives exactly the 140 expertise rating non-orcs require.

I don't think it's optimal, and it's certainly boring, but it definitely seems like 7 of our sockets will be getting used on expertise gems.

Fakeedit: after rereading your post perhaps this is what you meant? It seemed not since you mentioned you were a blacksmith and profession has no bearing on the number of sockets you get on the tier set.

rava · 11/18/09, 3:16 AM

Originally Posted by Revdarian

I really hope that the stats are just placeholders, because an absolute lack of expertise is hard to swallow as non orc.

I mean, i would have to gem all out for expertise as a blacksmith in order to get to the expertise cap while wearing mail... so they better add some to help a little.

You're being a bit melodramatic. Even if all of the tiered/offset Icecrown gear lacks expertise you're at most committing 7 sockets to expertise gems, and the 5 t10 pieces alone cover that. It's likely that you will only use 4 of the pieces, but even then finding two sockets in 10 other pieces of gear shouldn't be too difficult.

With that in mind you must remember that there have only been partial loot tables from a fraction of the bosses that will occupy Icecrown, and there are still plenty of slots unaccounted for.

(efb)

Vlyxnol · 11/18/09, 6:26 AM

Originally Posted by Revdarian

I really hope that the stats are just placeholders, because an absolute lack of expertise is hard to swallow as non orc.

I mean, i would have to gem all out for expertise as a blacksmith in order to get to the expertise cap while wearing mail... so they better add some to help a little.

Also keep in mind there has already been a ring discovered with expertise on it, and I must say a perfect amount too!

Seal of Many Mouths - Items - Sigrie

60 exp.

Like the above poster said theirs plenty of undiscovered loot yet, but If I could have 1 piece of exp loot and have 4 exp gems I'd be happy enough.

zoombini · 11/18/09, 9:38 AM

Also, just to note that Shadow's Edge (the precursor to Shadowmourne) is Warrior/Paladin/DK only, which probably means shamans won't be able to wield the legendary.

Yes yes, 2H shaman dps is dead and should never be spoken of, but I still wanted to at least try the questline (and the amount of QQ over a shaman having it would be excellent).

Synkronos · 11/18/09, 10:01 AM

Remember also that many leather pieces are pretty darn good for enhance, and often come brimming with expertise.

Chongar · 11/18/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cochice

Sanctified Frost Witch's Shoulderpads - Items - Sigrie

I don't know what it is yet, but that sounds awesome.

I for one suspect Blizzard is trolling Levva.

On the Expertise note, it's good that they put it on a ring. You can't have it be an emblem item sadly, because then Hunters are stuck without an emblem ring (Sunmote anyone?). I'd rather have a ring slot to play with expertise cap with than have it be a deciding factor in juggling gear around for tier bonuses etc. Of course these stats are likely not finalized in any case.

Gbits · 11/18/09, 11:39 AM

I have an additional problem with our set once again being itemized (as all LK gear seems to be to date) for hunters-who-happen-to-melee: stamina. Yes, I know, stamina is the least sexy stat there is, but I'm tired of being 10k health behind some of our retadins (and 2k behind some of our mages). Rets are just an example; plate and leather melee as a whole tend to have more health - one assumes to compensate for PBAoE - itemized on their gear.

The early (placeholder?) stats once again put us almost 200 stam behind retadins, and that's just set pieces. It's not just plate; the rogue set, made for folks that have a few more get-out-of-jail-free cards than we do, has 100 stam more. Sure, we could gem for stamina, but our DPS is balanced around the maximum possible DPS-related stats being enchanted/gemmed into our gear. Honestly, I'm just finding it a little fatiguing to know that I'll be continuing to work twice as hard as my fellow melee to stay alive in most IC encounters, as I do now in ToGC.

Revdarian · 11/18/09, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Andrast

This is completely untrue. There are 7 sockets on the 25-man tier set alone (not including offset). Socketing all of them with expertise gives exactly the 140 expertise rating non-orcs require.

I don't think it's optimal, and it's certainly boring, but it definitely seems like 7 of our sockets will be getting used on expertise gems.

Fakeedit: after rereading your post perhaps this is what you meant? It seemed not since you mentioned you were a blacksmith and profession has no bearing on the number of sockets you get on the tier set.

It does matter, since you have to at least use 1 of the 7 sockets for something other than expertise (Nightmare Tear), in order to achieve your meta socket.

EDIT TO ADD:

what you all seem to forget about the lack of expertise, is that such a thing takes away from freedom when testing stats... if most of your sockets have to be committed for expertise, you then can't test how would your dps be if you stacked AP, or Haste, or Hit, or heck ArP (if they were to add scaling to pets that they stated bluntly that they won't)

So yeah, there is an issue about the lack of expertise.

Silverstorm · 11/18/09, 1:42 PM

Revdarian,

Something else to keep in mind is that because the gear doesn't have expertise, it will have all those other stats. Granted, I doubt there will be 4 pieces for each slot so we can play "pick 3 of 4" stats and test that way (by dropping one of haste, ArPen, AP, or crit on each of 4 pieces). Still, I'd hope that in 12 bosses we would have at least some choice.

That doesn't completely negate the lack of some expertise on tier gear, but it doesn't do much good to gloom and doom before we've at least seen the rest of the gear.