I can confirm this as well. I have tested with both Ironforge and Exodar Training Dummies. When I first looked at this I thought that it was working fine because when you are at max range the stacks still reset when they reach the 8th. But on closer inspection I see that thought the stacks reset the manifest anger does not proc.

As I continued with my test I moved incrementally closer and it seems like you can't be more than about a yard or perhaps 2 at most away and then the manifest anger will proc. Of course the implications are rather large for a great number of fights.

I apologize for repeating Cochice's post, but I thought I should add my confirmation/results to this.

Thanks for the confirmations.

Well I guess that does quite seriously change the value of this trinket... And there isn't much we can do about it, apart from bumping the tread that was opened on the official forums here and hope for some reaction on the Dev's side.

Typically this is the sort of issue that Blizzard is usually able to hotfix pretty fast, so we can hopefully see a fix soon.

Edit: Seems like the bug has been noticed by several other people, I have found posts pointing it out on the Bug Report Forum. This should be something for which we can expect a fix relatively fast, possibly this week with 3.3.2.

/sigh I'v been thinking about doing this as well for quite some time again (i've switched to haste gemming in the past) and I expected to see the same ingame results which last time was the same or less dps on most fights. However we ran Togc again tonight and I cannot believe the difference.... 11.3k Anub, 15.3k Twins, 10k Jarraxus, and 8k beasts. This is all about 500-1.5k more than more normal numbers.

Rouncer and Vlyxnol, what would you say is it that makes Haste perform so well? Would you say it acts much better in game than it does on the Sim? My Haste is simming pretty low right now, and regemming everything I have to Haste and Haste/AP gems gives me a DPS decrease of about 180 in Enhsim (used Rawr to change my gems around and exported it to Enhsim).

It might be because my gear level is a bit lower than both of yours, thus leading to less white damage and less Haste effectiveness, but I'm trying to figure out if I should just ignore the sim's DPS value and try it out. It brings my AP value to some ridiculously low number like 4600, so that might have something to do with it. Maybe after a certain point in stats/gear people will see the same results as you guys?

Did you remove the Pristine gems as well when regemming in Rawr? Leaving those 2 alone and swapping all your Brights for Quick (including those 2 JC gems) when no socket bonus was involved and for Starks when one was involved and I'm showing it as a 41 dps upgrade.

At 405 hit rating you have 0.069938% worth of room for additional crit with all raid buffs/debuffs and when elemental devastation is active. At 385 crit rating you are "losing" 0.54% worth of crit when elemental devastation is active with all raid buffs/debuffs.

This is interesting because I just checked out your gear in Rawr, and was expecting to be able to come here and say that actually I'm seeing the opposite to what you're saying - but when I exported and ran the Sim I witnessed the same results as you. Rawr says it's an increase of about 40dps but Enhsim reports a decrease of 180.

That's the first time I've ever seen Haste sim lower than AP at a decent gear level.

Using the latest version of Rawr and EnhSim 1.9.6.1, I get these results

Armory Profile - 9482.86
Swapping gloves/pants/1 gem in boots to Quick and putting a Stark gem in Offhand - 9524.55
Swapping the Prsitine in the Chest to a Stark and the Pristine in the Cloak to a Quick - 9475.67

I get similar transitions with the latest version of EnhSim but wasn't about to rerun the tests using it because reinputting the priority list on each config is annoying (fixed in version that should be coming out tonight).

Strange; I just redid it. Did you check the box to use SR on cooldown? I get 9610 for my Armory profile, 9655 for All Haste + a Pristine in my cloak, and 9661 for a 20 Hit in my Cloak.

EDIT: Strange...I notice it says I have 855 Haste rating, equaling 33.91% Haste on Rawr...but when exporting it to Enhsim it puts down 33.66% Haste. Why might that be happening? Raid buffs don't add anything to the character sheet value.

I'm guessing it's a problem with Rawr's exporting functions. Levva has been trying to get it to work properly but something must still be glitched. A workaround is to use Rawr 2.3.5 and update it's item cache and it will export proper data to EnhSim if you are just testing config changes in EnhSim.

edit - just compared the output of 2.3.8 to 2.3.5 to chardev.org (armory is down) and they are within 1/100ths of each other so that workaround is no longer necessary.

Anyway, looking at your last numbers it looks like haste is beating AP when you take into account the need to stay just below the melee crit cap.

For anyone who has picked up [Tiny Abomination in a Jar] and has noticed the bug there has finally been a blue post in one of the many threads.

The thread replied to is located here though it is now locked. I just wish they could have been a little more specific on the time line involved, as I don't think this upcoming patch is a realistic goal.

Since there was a good deal of discussion on the [Tiny Abomination in a Jar], thought I might as well post that the bug has been fixed. The trinket now procs from normal melee range.

It's probably best to retest TAiaJ from scratch at this point given the amount of hotfixes involved in the proc.

First of all, I could not find any forums about this, and this forum seemed the most appropriate to bring it up

(Also, being new to the forums game, I do not know how to link spells/abilities via mouseover...sorry!)

Ok, so WF has an internal CD, which is 3 seconds i believe? Hence we go for slow, one handed weapons. As 5/5 Flurry increases attack speed of next 3 swings after crit by 25%...does this not effect WF procs? I'm thinking from both a PVE and PVP perspective with regards to this.

Thanks!

My premise originally laid out in this post was that because of the observed randomness to the windfury internal cooldown, haste doesn't affect how many times windfury will proc. It might, in that condition, affect windfury dps contribution in other ways though, such as enchant and trinket uptimes.

JVerbit's response below also makes intuitive sense, but I was sure I was right, so I did some testing in enhsim.* Unfortunately for my pride, it turns out I am wrong and he is right.

(Although he simplifies the complex situation a bit. Haste gives more white hits, which in turn proc static shock, flametongue, and maelstrom weapon.)

Aside from conclusively proving I was wrong about windfury procs, the only other surprise to me was that trinket and totem uptimes were unaffected by haste, even while main hand and off hand enchant uptimes were significantly affected.

haste %	wf dps	dps	mh chant	oh chant	wf procs	wf ave ap
0	918	7032	44	40	806240	8201
20	961	7676	49	45	838942	8269
40	1076	8373	53	48	934346	8292
60	1200	9100	57	52	1041120	8341

* My own character sheet, 1000 hour sim runs. Certainly not enough to validate a position, but plenty of data to disprove my premise.

Windfury has a 20% chance to proc when it is off cool down. However many swings happen after a WF proc and during the ICD are not 'wasted' since they are white damage hits not eligible to proc WF.

Flurry, before a WF proc not on ICD, means faster hits that translate in more chances to proc WF in a shorter amount of time than without Flurry.

Haste effects benefits DPS and helps make WF a more consistent proc.

In PvE, too much burst means unpredictable threat or lulls in DPS. In PvP, too much burst leads to dead enemies. In both top-end really isn't an issue anymore.

Either way, imbue WF on your main hand only due to the ICD being global for your character--the ICD affects both MH and OH when it procs on either.

Not sure if this was brought up anywhere else but it should be a good idea to macro in a weapon swap on Fire Elemental totem to a temporary spell power weapon with flametongue on to increase it's damage output? Especially if it's a stationary tank and spank fight and you get the full 2 minutes out of it.

Weapon swapping still causes a global cooldown unfortunately so you're essentially swapping 2 global cooldowns and a few melee swings for an extra 1000~(depending on your weapon) spellpower on the pet. Doesn't sound as good as it did at first after accounting for the lost damage.

You can swap weapons during a GCD tho, and all it does is reset the GCD from the point at which you made the weapon swap, so you're basically on double-cooldown if you macro in the swap after the FE drop. So, like such:
regular rotation * switch to caster weapon <wait GCD> Cast FN/Switch back to melee * <wait GCD> regular rotation

Note that only the part between the stars (which should ideally be close to a single GCD) is the only time that you're not doing your regular thing. You're not even losing any ability casts since both weapon swaps are during already existing GCDs, it really is just two swingtimer resets and a single GCD of flailing with a flametongued spell weapon. I suppose if you wanted to be even smarter, you could do it while WF was on CD too to avoid lost potential WF procs.

Looking at my fight logs on Saur, my FE's damage is roughly:

45% melee
35% Fire Nova
20% Fire Blast
Total of 133k damage

In the same fight, one of our resto shammies let one loose:

45% Fire Nova
30% Melee
25% Fire Blast
Total of 117k damage

We appear to be similarly geared for our specs, but his elementals actual Nova and Blast damage were roughly equal to mine.

I'd be curious to see what an elemental spec'd FE did in a similar breakdown, but it seems to me that swapping weapons at all would just be a net loss.

One thing to note, if you get double zerking when you summon your elemental, that's a decent amount of SP coupled with UR or TSA. Maybe not quite on par with a spellpower weapon with FT imbued, but still, not insignificant. Not to mention that you don't lose GCDs from weapon swapping. Keep in mind also that you do have an offhand with FT, while a resto would only have earthliving, thus not giving as much spell dmg to the elemental.

I dont suppose you can estimate your different SP values at time of cast (obviously much easier for the resto than for Enh with our various AP procs).

I currently get my war totem to 20 stacks then pop blood fury (orc racial) before hitting FE. A bonus 952 (741 from caster weapon, 211 from FT imbue) spell damage at cast seems like a fairly substantial DPS increase to the FE, as well you could spend your second post GCD weapon swap on a shock or lighting bolt to somewhat mitigate the DPS loss. Don't forget when you get your regular MH weapon back on your WF ICD will be off and while flailing at it with two fast weapons is bad for white DPS they will be fast and still building MW stacks.

From the Enh Sim page:
Swing: 180 + 0.6 * SP + ( 2.0 / 14 ) * AP
Blast: ( 725 to 825 ) + 0.2 * SP
Nova: ( 925-1050 ) + 0.5 * SP
Shield: 96 + 0.015 * SP
Base Mana: 4000 + 15(0.3 * Int)

-571 more damage on normal swings. Well slightly less due to some AP loss from the AP on your weapon if you have it but you do get some AP from the int on the caster weapon.
- 190 more damage on a fireblast.
- 476 more damage on a nova
- Shield is probably irrelevant as it can't wont be taking hits.
- All damage should be increased or reduced according to fire resists as it is all fire damage and I think all considered magic.

If anyone has a log breaking down number of times a FE will attack and use each of it's abilities in a single summon we can get a damage value of a caster weapon with FT at time of summon. VERY napkiny math puts the damage increase from the melee hits alone at 34k (2.0 swing speed over 120s and assuming unmitigated).

Edit: You could for sake of argument enchant that weapon with 63 spell power putting you up to 1015SP the weapon.

You're already using that to cast FE. Really, read my post a bit higher up properly. There is only one GCD during which you have the caster weapons equipped, and the only ability you cast with the caster weapons equipped is FE itself.