I think what they're getting at is that if you're near the end of the DoT and your shock cooldown is up and you need to shock, then you either a) clip the DoT tick which means the previous Flame Shock wasn't as effective as an Earth Shock would have been or b) use Earth Shock and delay your next Flame Shock by several seconds and nullify a portion of the benefit of the glyph, which could make it inferior to the other glyphs.

Pretty much.

My perspective comes from my combat log parses. When I started playing around with Flame Shock it was looking like a nice dps increase. Only problem was that the first log I looked at was a Koralon one which is ideal for FS. So it was looking like an upgrade to use the Flame Shock glyph instead of Lightning Shield so I swapped it in.

At first I was using a castsequence macro with Flame Shock so it wouldn't clip but it would be used frequently without my having to think about using it. Checked my parse for that weeks 25 man raids and the glyph and rotation were costing me potential damage compared to having used Lightning Shield glyph and only Earth Shocking. So I pulled the FS glyph and started only FSing when I was sure of getting all ticks from the DoT. Checked my 10 man parses and that ended up being a dps gain over just Earth Shocking but not a very significant one. Also if I had used the FS glyph it would have ended up being less damage then I gained from the LS glyph.

I compared FS glyph to LS due to mathematical simplicity but the findings should be relevant for WF glyph as well since the sim has them both worth roughly the same amount of dps.

how do you not have any global cooldowns?

I'm currently in 4/5 T8 and I quite often have a GCD where I'm just sitting and waiting for MW, LvB, SS or ES to go off cooldown.

So then as long as you're effectively tracking your dot (which the new SAA does nicely), you're free to FS if you don't have a debuff up, regardless of your glyph choice. In this way we err on the side of an extra ES in between FS casts (so FS-ES-ES-ES-FS instead of 2 in between) with no damage loss, and potentially a slight gain.

Personally I've been using it only on less dynamic fights that I can focus on my rotation more, and otherwise just ESing. Since it's not glyphed I don't have to worry about using an extra ES

So it sounds like the math for the T10 4-set bonus is simple. Is this right?

AP x .2 x .15 * (10 / t) where AP is my total AP and t is the avg number of seconds between MW5s

That is, 20% of my AP, 15% chance - lasts for 10 seconds. So if mw5 appears every 10 seconds then the AP bonus is just AP x .2 x .15. If it comes up every 20 seconds the cut that in half (so 10 /t).

So if I have 5k AP and MW5 comes up every 20 seconds this is like a 75 AP bonus - not that thrilling.

With 7K AP and 10 seconds MW5 cycle time, 210 AP bonus - still not sure that sounds like a T10 4-set bonus number

How slow do you generate MW procs? I'm under 6 seconds in EnhSim. Based on that I'm looking at 25% uptime on the buff. This assumes we don't run into a case where a MW refreshes itself (which could lead to lower uptime).

What could you possibly be doing wrong that your MW5 would take 20 seconds to stack? Looking through some parses my average stacking time is ~7.5 seconds. I walk into a raid encounter with 6700 AP buffed. With procs and UR I've seen spikes to almost 10k AP.

Averaging out my procs and multiplying them by 1.1 for UR, I average ~8200 AP during a raid. With a 7.5 second stacking time that works out to 328 AP which is ~210 dps. Considering T8 and T9 bonuses were each worth around 150-180dps this is looking like it will be a very nice set bonus.


Your math looks similar to mine but my average ES was significantly higher then that. Doubt it's due to gear differences so maybe it is due to SS uptime? Did you include the SS debuff into your ES numbers or are you just trying to compare it when SS is missing from the target?

Just looked at a recent parse and my average ES did 4816 damage.

I just multiplied base ES damage by 1.28 for the debuff.

Your math seems fine, but your assumptions are way off. As Rouncer mentioned, you're going to get to MW5 significantly faster than 20 seconds. Additionally, once you reach that gear level, you're going to have way more than 5000 AP in a raid buffed environment. All and all, this is a really fabulous set bonus. The only side effect is Haste is probably going to gain a lot of worth.

Not Enhancement specific, but some new patch notes were just posted.

Hasted, I average ~4-6 seconds between 5 stack procs, and 6 seconds is highly unusual.

Note it only takes 16 seconds to charge it up (assuming opening with SS) and it is a decent upgrade over the current one.

For the Haste stackers, the Elemental totem gives haste rating (not crit like MMO says) and lasts for 30 seconds (good if there is a long run away from fire fight).

Also note, the new Enhancement totem is on a higher priority ability and it's a guaranteed proc compared to Quaking Earth.

Also note that the Elemental Totem will be vastly superior as it will have a longer duration on an ability with a shorter cooldown.

I think there will be some changes made to these relics, beside the fact the GC quickly posted about the ele totem, the dps DK sigil looks a bit overpowered compared to other melee dps relics (just look at the retri libram).

5*73 str = 730 AP, with kings it's 803. Way more than 436 AP, almost twice as much. Seems like the relic-designer strikes again on PTRs, hope they will correct it this time before it gets live.

Changed the title of the thread in homage to this GC quote

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Why is Reincarnation still 50 minutes? LOLOL

I like to die from fire and then rez so that I'm STILL IN THE FIRE.

I also like to die because I'm too far away and rez IN THE SAME SPOT.

Logic is solid, imo.

I fail to see how being able to rez yourself and only yourself on a 50 min CD (especially when we're still the squishiest melee around) is sufficiently different or in any way superior to a druid being able to rez anyone in the raid on a 10 min CD. Especially when Reincarnation doesn't rez you with any meaningful amount of mana or out of harms way from anything that may have killed you (die to fire and there's fire on your corpse), which is why I take some offense to this quote from GC;

I get this image in my head of him seeing shamans dying every fight to avoidable types of damage or that we would want to die to get that sweet sweet 20% mana we rez up with so the raid can waste their mana to rebuff us. Why don't they just come out and say that they don't want to put Reincarnation on a short CD because then a shaman could likely Ankh up at the end of any given wipe and rez the raid so they wouldn't have to run back. Gotta make that trash manditory in IC after you've been wiping for a while after all.

Icecrown will have portals like Ulduar when running back from a wipe. Also, Pallies have Divine Intervention if you want to save a rezzer.

I'm still a bit on the fence in regard to Fire Nova. I've been on the PTR and I tried it out. I didn't use the +20% damage talent in my dummy tests, but I compared my self-buffed numbers on Fire Nova vs some week-or-so old 25-man raid parse numbers. With a quick glance, it looked to me like the self-buffed un-talented Fire Nova damage was about equivalent to Lava Lash + Flametongue Weapon, which would lead me to believe that given raid buffs, Fire Nova would surpass Lava Lash.

Although, if you use ToQE, you'd have to consider LL for keeping the Volcanic Fury buff up, and then there are also fight mechanics to consider. Movement intensive fights wouldn't fit well with Fire Nova. Yet again, there are also fights in which you may prefer Fire Nova because of the multi-mob capabilities (Anub'arak).

I'm not understanding why you say it's going to be superior when the duration and cooldown on both totems facilitate around a 100% uptime (it won't truly be 100% for either totem due to the ramp-up required). The only benefits I see the elemental totem providing are a speedier ramp-up (10-12 seconds vs 16 seconds) and there may be a fight in which the Enhancement totem's stack falls off because of the fight's mechanics. The only fight in which I can see this occurring currently is Icehowl during his Massive Crash which also depends on your luck in whom he chooses to charge.

Other than that, the ramp-up difference is practically insignificant considering a 5+ minute fight.

Both take 3 attacks to stack to full. 1 haste rating is roughly equal to 2 AP for most people. Shocks are ranged attacks that allow you to keep the stack active even if you can't be in melee range due to mechanics of the fight. The elemental totem will also last 30 seconds while the stormstrike one will only last 15 seconds. All those things add up to why it is vastly superior. Think about it this way, if you lose the stack even once during a fight the elemental one is better since it takes less time to restack and with the elemental one you are also far less likely to lose the stack in the first place.

If the elemental one ends up requiring 5 shocks to stack to full then it would be equal to the enhancement one but otherwise there isn't a single reason to choose the enhancement one over the elemental one. Which really isn't such a bad thing anyway since you always want to be using your shocks unlike what happens with the current elemental totem. Since the current one requires you to always use your MW stacks for lightning bolts or you end up with less uptime on it's buff so you can't effectively use those charges for chain lightning or heals while using that totem.