As others have pointed out, the main formulator naturally takes this into account. The Trinkets & Procs tab, however, is not meant to present a hierarchy of professions but is just a way to simplify profession bonuses so the user can make his or her own decisions. It tells you that Hyperspeed breaks down to X average haste or that Lightweave is Y average spellpower, but it's up to the user to compare that to what it'd cost them.

This display is sort of a relic of earlier versions of the spreadsheet and could do with some updating, so I will consider this when doing so.

So, if I set this to say, 2, does that mean it will cast 2 instant cast spells such as Frost Shock or Fire Nova before the spreadsheet attempts to cast another Lavaburst?

The number entered is the number of seconds of "movement", during which it'll keep trying to cast spells until the time is up. If there isn't any spell available to cast, either because it's not been allowed to by the settings or because everything's on cooldown, it'll insert a gap the length of a global cooldown.

So yes, normally a 2 second gap would result in two spells being cast if you have both FrS and FN turned on, though FrS won't be cast if shocks are on CD from Flame Shock casting.

---

Relating to releasing a version including the new FS haste mechanics, I'm holding off until we're more sure of exactly how they're going to work before I do the necessary rewriting.

Changes - version 1.2.4

New stuff:

• Two new "Advanced Options" for patch 3.3.3 PTR:
  • Hasted Flame Shocks: turning this on will cause the timing of FS DoT ticks to be affected by your haste, as per 3.3.3 PTR.
  • New Flame Shock Glyph: turning this on will activate the 3.3.3 PTR FS Glyph.
• Desired cast time calculator on the Calculators tab, tells you how much haste is needed to achieve a specific cast time.

Fixes/tweaks:

• Flame Shock ticks are now correctly calculated based on the aftercast time rather than beforecast time (see below).
• Improved the logic that controls clipping of Flame Shock.
• 4t7 DEP formulator was applying the bonus twice to the 'normal' part of the rotation, this has been fixed.
• Certain values of haste will no longer return an "#N/A" error.
• Simplified the way Clearcasting is applied to the first two casts of a rotation to help stabilise haste DEP a bit more.

3.3.3 PTR options
These are based on the excellent testing and analysis performed by posters in the 3.3 elemental thread. Presently 4t10 simply adds six seconds to the DoT, which is probably not exactly how the bonus behaves on the PTR. Will review this when the behaviour is more clear and when we are sure the behaviour is intended.

New Glyph of Flame Shock: turning this on adds the 60% crit multiplier to Flame Shock's DoT. It doesn't change the existing Glyph of FS/2t8 behaviour. Setting Glyph of FS in the Glyphs section enables Flame Shock to crit, and setting New Glyph of FS in the advanced options causes it to crit for the extra 60%.

Fixes
A previous "correction" I made to the flame shock tick calculator was actually me breaking it because I got confused as to what I had done. This has therefore been reverted. The result of the "correction" was that sometimes Flame Shock's last tick would not be calculated even when it wasn't being clipped.

This has unfortunately had an effect on some of the results I've posted recently, in particular inflating some of the 4t10 DEP calculations because the number I was comparing to involved lost FS ticks. 2t9's & 4t10's DEP is now a bit lower in most situations, but the actual maximum DPS of 2t9/4t10 is unaffected. Anyone not using either of these bonuses will probably notice a slight DPS increase over the previous version.

The other fixes/changes are minor and should not produce different results for the vast majority of players.

Download
Compatibility

(I've not done anything about OpenOffice spazzing out with the latest version because it's a bit of an odd problem to try to work around and I don't want to break the normal versions trying to fix it.)

[e] I wasn't planning to put a new version up just yet but felt that a couple of the fixes should be made available ASAP. As well as the potentially changing 3.3.3 PTR stuff there are a few other further improvements/tweaks I'd like to make, but they can hopefully wait until 3.3.3 goes live.

A quick question regarding some of the trinket modeling and expected DPS increases. I have reasonably high end gear, currently using RotU(h) and Muradins(h). When testing out some of the new 277 trinkets I'm getting some odd dps increases for Phylactery and DFO. Firstly the spreadsheet seems to suggest that swapping out the RotU(h) is the best option as opposed to the Muradins(h) which seems to go against what you wrote in the Elemental Gearing thread; and secondly I'm getting dps increase values of 46 and 98 for the 264 and 277 DFO's vs 246 and 313 for the 264 and 277 Phylactery's.

Perhaps it could be modeling in an odd way because of my current stats? 993 haste without 5xRelic, 37.18% crit unbuffed, 3396 spellpower with Flametongue. Using the OpenOffice compatibility version.

Some feedback on this issue would be most appreciated!

The problem seems to be that the proc value for the Phylacteries in the new version is calculated as =1032*20/trinkcd (this assumes 20 seconds uptime per 55 seconds). The DEP calculation has the real value, though: =172*DEP_Crit+1032*20/(90+3/0.3)*DEP_sp. But when you select trinkets in the main sheet it uses the proc value to calculate your dps and thus uses the wrong value.

Also, I find it confusing that the proc value lists the DPS value of the proc for non-sp procs like reign, but for DFO et cetera it lists the average SP value of the proc. Thus it's hard to see the real value of the proc at first glance.

Yeah I guess you're right, knowing the rough stats / damage value might be worth more. I guess you *could* at an extra column that shows the nature of the proc value (spelldamage, actual damage per second, haste). But one look at the trinket should be enough for everyone to figure that out by themselves.

By the way, the current reign proc modelling is amazingly accurate. Looking at the 10 attempts it took us this week at Saurfang hc, which is about as stand and nuke as it gets, HC Reign did 262 dps and normal version did 235. That's about 10% less than the proc value ZAP shows, while my actual dps was about 15% less than the ZAP value.

Regarding Phylactery: Would it be possible to have an adjusted DEP value for hasted Flame Shocks?

The spreadsheet already displays the type of proc - it's the single letter following the proc numbers in the final column. This is actually how trinkets are added to the user's stats - a vlookup checks the value of the proc against that letter to determine where to add the stats (Spellpower, Haste, Crit or DPS). I could of course change the letters into full words now that I've got all that space by moving the trinket list onto its own tab, which might make it easier to understand.

I've added the hasted FlS ticks to Phylactery's proc timer in my internal build, it seems to reduce the proc interval by about 2 seconds with my stats (2.12s ticks), increasing the DEP of heroic Phylactery by about 25. I won't do any more fiddling until we know the spellpower values of both normal and heroic in 3.3.3 (as far as I know we only have the normal value?). I hadn't actually planned on releasing such semi-finished and provisional 3.3.3 features yet anyway, but as I had already added most of them it was easier to leave them in when releasing the bug fixes than to take them out.

Thanks for the RotD report, that's very good to know!

Zamir,

Thanks for putting up a new version. If I understand correctly what you have included is that turning Glyph of FlS on in the glyph list is now just the crit-part, which will become standard in 3.3.3? And the on/off function on the right depicts the actual new Glyph (60% extra dmg)

With my stats or filling in BiS 277 stats (and enabling hasted FlS), the new glyph appears to add ~120 dps, which is lower then Glyph of Lava.

If this is indeed how you have done it today, I would like to ask you to change this in some future version so the Glyph list represents the actual Glyphs again (I think you were planning this anyway)

Can you confirm the above statements are correct?

Yes Rahvin, that's all correct. Naturally when 3.3.3 goes live, the glyph list will change to reflect whatever form our glyphs have taken by then. At present I don't want temporary stuff relating to a PTR patch to get in the way of normal use!

So yeah, activating Glyph of Flame Shock in the glyph list determines whether or not Flame Shock ticks can crit (which is the current glyph behaviour). Activating the new glyph in advanced options determines how much ticks can crit for (which is the PTR patch notes glyph behaviour).

Correct, right now to simulate 3.3.3 settings, you enable hasted FS and Glyph of FS. Those will be on for everyone. To look at the new glyph of FS, you just enable the Glyph option on the right.

In addition to checking against Glyph of Lava, you'll probably want to check against Glyph of Flametongue, too. With my gear setup, Glyph of FT is coming out ahead of both Lava and the new FS, so we might have a new contender for our third glyph.

That's just a simple calculation of my average spellpower including the ashen verdict ring proc, you can ignore it and type in your own spellpower figure as normal.

Thanks alot. Makes sense now, didn't even notice an option for including that proc in the calculations was missing (which ofcourse it wasn't).

I noticed awhile back that you moved the wowhead and lootrank links to the Calculations tab. In fact:

I confirmed it by reading through the forum. I know you've done a newer version since that post but I can't find any references to you changing the location of these links. In fact, I can't seem to find them anywhere on the spreadsheet.

Am I just blind? *blushes* I know the general idea of how to create the wowhead loot rankings but it always seems to take me awhile each time and I tend to inadvertently miss something. Any confirmation would be much appreciated!

P.S. Absolutely love your blog and a lot of the humor you use. I'm glad you can wrap your brain around a lot of the math because you have a very nice way of explaining everything. Heck, even the step by step coloring on Zap is oddly soothing for someone who tends to get deer-in-headlights syndrome when opening a spreadsheet. I want to play my class the best way possible and you help me get one step closer. (This is what I get for deciding one patch I wanted to dps instead of heal. Oii)

The Item Ranking Links haven't gone, but they did move a wee bit. You should see that there are 3 columns on the 'Calculators' tab: one small one on the left, one small one on the right and a big wide central column. The item ranks used to be at the bottom of the central column where the gem suggester is, but now they live just to the left of that.

So it's Calculators tab -> left column -> all the way down to the bottom (4 "boxes", row 22) -> item ranking links.

(Thank you for the kind words.)

ZAP! v1.2.4 Compatibility Version on OpenOffice 3.1.1 build9420 gives scripting errors on Store/Retrieve character and on trinket sorting. Also Glyph of ToW DEP value is 6258 when others float at the 300's. Here's the screenie:

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5236/zap124error.jpg

I tried re-downloading it and submitting the info to a clean spreadsheet, on both cases the DEP for the Glyph of ToW went haywire and this also skewes the trinket calculation, making Pandora's Plea the second best trinket for me at the moment.

Here is my first pass at a full patch 3.3.3 version of the spreadsheet. "First pass" as in "I am 80% sure than 95% of the spreadsheet works 100% of the time and 10% worried that 2% of the spreadsheet may be utterly bonkers 15% of the time".

Changes - version 1.2.5 (patch 3.3.3)

New stuff:

• The Calculators tab now has a display showing cast times, DoT tick times etc. for given haste values and buffs.
• Lava = FtW calc: shows the spellpower necessary for Glyph of Lava to equal Glyph of Flametongue Weapon in DEP.
• Ashen Verdict ring proc can be selected below the trinket selection thingy.
• Wrynn/Hellscream buff can be added in the Advanced Options. This is just a %age modifier of total damage so you can type whatever you like.
• New "advanced option": Can now choose when to proc temporary haste effects (EM, Berserk, Hyperspeed) - on Flame Shock, Lava Burst or LB/CL.

Changed:

• For all temporary haste effect models, Flame Shock ticks will occur based on the haste value when Flame Shock was cast, as per PTR testing results.
• "FS lasts" display (beside Item Sets box on Main page) now reports the time between FlS refreshes only for 4t10. For other situations it reports the length of the DoT timer.
• Phylactery of the Nameless Lich changes:
  • "Proc Av." display now uses correct 90 second ICD.
    
  • Proc timer now accounts for hasted FlS tick times.
    
  • Proc spellpower values updated as per patch 3.3.3 PTR.
• 2t8 bonus changed to 20% increased damage on flame shock ticks (untested)
• Flame Shock glyph changed to 60% increased effect on periodic damage critical strikes (untested)
• Flame Shock DoT: haste and crit capability now active by default and related advanced options removed. (They can still be set to legacy values by changing the fscrit and fshaste name values.)
• 4t10 Flame Shock extension behaves as theorised in this post.
• Gem suggester will no longer get confused if the "best gem (red)" or "best gem (any)" is not a runed cardinal ruby.
• OpenOffice might spaz out less... or it might not. I have tried to accommodate it, but it's the code equivalent of holding your left elbow and hopping up and down on one foot to try and convince a pressure mat that you are standing on it. I mean seriously I fixed the one thing is was upset about and it just got upset about something else which I can't possibly work around.

Other:

• Remember to check your glyph settings as the menu order has changed!
• Please note that the FS tick timer might break if you push the formulator above 200% haste. This should never happen with normal character stats.
• I am now getting EXTRA compatibility warnings when I save the .xls version, so I guess let me know if it blows up in older versions of Excel and I'll... uh... well I'll be aware of it, at least.

"untested" stuff
I've not actually checked the 2t8 and flame shock glyph changes on the PTR yet but am assuming they work the way all similar effects work.

Q: Why haven't you checked yet?
A: Because shush.

[e] Checked Glyph of Flame Shock and it's producing 241.7% crits as expected.

Speaking of testing, thanks so much to everyone who went on the PTR and tested the new mechanics and/or helped evaluate them on these forums. It was hugely hugely helpful both to me personally and to the community at large.

4t10, Flame Shock & Haste
The interaction between 4t10, Flame Shock and haste is kinda complicated when applied to actual rotations. This means that the spreadsheet DEP value for haste will probably vary a lot more than before. I've not done any extensive testing of this yet but suffice it to say that with 3-5 different haste models active at once for every given haste rating figure the precise DEP value of haste can be a bit unpredictable.

Remember that the Snapshot tab shows the "rotation" being used by the spreadsheet, so you can see how rotations are changing with haste by checking the tab.

As for the new "advanced option" regarding when to use haste effects:

• All rotations in the spreadsheet begin Flame Shock -> Lava Burst -> Lightning Bolt OR Chain Lightning
• Previously it was assumed that EM etc. would be used on the third spell (Lightning) as this was the highest DPS
• Because of the Flame Shock changes, you can now tell the formulator to "use" the effect on either the first (Flame Shock), second (Lava Burst) or third (Lightning) spell. This affects all temporary haste effects except Heroism.
• If you want to see what's optimal for just a single effect, turn off all the others and then compare how DPS changes as you toggle the setting. This is kinda clunky so I will see about making it easier.

Patch 3.3.3
This is for patch 3.3.3 only, and will make no sense if used for gear decisions before the patch goes live. Also it's based on PTR stuff which may change etc. Link in the OP will keep pointing to 1.2.4 until patch 3.3.3 goes live.

Download

Both versions are in the .zip: .xls is "compatibility" and .xlsm is normal.

I went to test in zap tonight, with the new changes to FS, if there was a definitive change in which tierpiece setup was best (either tier gloves/plaguebringers stained pants, or gunshipcaptains mittens and tier pants).

When I plugged in any haste value over 1205 (this was with bizzuri's selected, with Electrifying Wind it was 1225), I my DEP values would go crazy. By crazy I mean my SP and Crit Rating DEP values would drop to around -35 apiece. If I bumped the haste values up further (for instance, with bizzuri's selected, 1333+) this would go away. and it came back again at 1481 haste.


Further testing proved that this is directly related to our 4p (i.e. disabling the 4p stopped the problem from happening) which means that it most likely has to do with the interactions with the new FS changes.


I'm guessing it has to do with the fluctuations seen in the graph you posted for the duration of the FS refresh's at various levels of haste. However, the haste levels these occur at do NOT match any kind of specific peak or drop off that the graph shows.


But after reenabling the 4p bonus to further test this, the -DEP problems seem to have gone away. However, closing ZAP completely and reopening it causes it to come back.

Are you using OpenOffice and/or the "compatibility" version by any chance?

Openoffice, but the normal version. And when I later tried to repeat the 'disabling t10 4p bonus to get it to work normally' thing', it didnt work.


But if it's a problem with openoffice, I'll be sad, because its the only way I CAN open ZAP and have the damn thing even attempt at working.

I sympathise because for a long time OpenOffice was all I had access to myself. Unfortunately because I write ZAP! in Excel 2007 it causes some problems with OOo - unpredictable problems which I have been unable to correct despite having a go with 1.2.5.

So try using CTRL-SHIFT-F9 after you change haste or set bonuses etc. This should make the spreadsheet recalculate all the DEP rotation formulators properly (the problem is that it doesn't always recalculate everything when it should). I know it works with the .xls version but the .xlsm version won't actually load into my version of OOo.

Alternatively, the main DPS formulator seems to always update properly, so any changes you make should result in an accurate final DPS readout even if DEP is whacky, which can be used for comparison.

A proper workaround would require a redesign of a significant portion of the spreadsheet's guts which would be a bad idea right now (and there's no guarantee it'd solve the problem, though it would make the workings more streamlined), but it's something I plan to change next time a major rewrite becomes necessary.

The ctrl shift f9 thing worked, thanks.


And for those interested.... There's STILL no difference (Around 6 dps) between using your tier gloves or your tier pants.