EnhSim updated thread - Page 38

Viciousmf · 10/26/10, 3:57 PM

Edit: My mistake. Somehow my default config file didn't include MW or imp lava lash as standard talents.

Which was also the reason I was seeing 0% uptime on my 4 piece T10 bonus.

I just did a quick simulation with those things fixed and LvB is coming out as a dps loss no matter where I put it in the rotation.

Rouncer · 10/26/10, 5:15 PM

I really hope not since your config is borked and useless.

primary_talent                  enhancement
elemental_weapons               2/2
focused_strikes                 3/3
improved_shields                0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
flurry                          3/3
static_shock                    3/3
improved_fire_nova              2/2
searing_flames                  3/3
frozen_power                    0/2
shamanistic_rage                1/1
unleashed_rage                  2/2
improved_lava_lash              0/2
maelstrom_weapon                0/3

convection                      0/2
concussion                      3/3
call_of_flame                   0/2
reverberation                   0/2
elemental_precision             0/3
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_oath                  0/2
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
elemental_mastery               0/1
feedback                        0/3
lava_surge                      0/2

No imp lava lash, no maelstrom weapon and 3/3 concussion.

Also I didn't suggest using it at all, that's what someone else suggested. I don't want to hard cast lava burst except under very rare circumstances and I'm hoping that will not be required on any level.

msnja · 10/26/10, 5:27 PM

Frost Witch's Battlegear 4 piece 19.78%
for me. with standart config file

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              FS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              FE
rotation_priority8              ST
rotation_priority9              SR

Jomy · 10/26/10, 6:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Has anyone had a chance to check on Frostbrand and the mastery? More just for curiosity and when thinking about PvP but would be good to know in general.

It looks like mastery is effecting Frostbrand attacks.

In my PVP Gear reforged.
468 Mastery - 45%
Frostbrand - 1222 dmg.

Same gear no reforges.
0 Mastery - 20%
Frostbrand - 1008 dmg.

Also While testing with enhsim 2.0.14 with Frostbrand + Frozen Power, It would seem frozen power isn't working at all with it. No change in Shock/LB/LL damage with or without it.

Rouncer · 10/26/10, 6:54 PM

Frozen Power isn't meant to do anything in EnhSim since as far as anyone has shown Bosses are immune to the effect and EnhSim is set up to simulate attacking a Boss. Option was left in place so if any of our developers has an opportunity they could maybe offer an option to set the target to player and allow it to work on that for more pvp oriented simulation.

Thanks for checking on Frostbrand and Mastery, that was very helpful and most appreciated.

ziff · 10/27/10, 1:11 AM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

I'm not sure if he capitalized on all the things possible to maximize fire elemental's output or to use fire nova on cooldown (only looking like 10 casts over the 2:08). With imp fire nova and using fire nova frequently it's probably a 400 dps upgrade but unless you can maximize use of fire nova it's definitely a straight dps loss.

I wasn't trying to say whether Fire Elemental was a straight dps loss or not, I think we just don't have enough data to say right now. I was only arguing whether or not the Fire Elemental was a 'massive' dp,s which it doesn't seem to be the case. I've got a better breakdown in my response to Hotgarr, but if you are saying that the difference between two parses of ~2min fights are a 1% damage difference, that's the definition of a push. With all the rng nature of our mechanics and procs, there's just too much variability between two short tests to get any better accuracy.

ziff · 10/27/10, 1:14 AM

Originally Posted by Jomy

It looks like mastery is effecting Frostbrand attacks.

In my PVP Gear reforged.
468 Mastery - 45%
Frostbrand - 1222 dmg.

Same gear no reforges.
0 Mastery - 20%
Frostbrand - 1008 dmg.

Also While testing with enhsim 2.0.14 with Frostbrand + Frozen Power, It would seem frozen power isn't working at all with it. No change in Shock/LB/LL damage with or without it.

Could you also check to see if Frostbrand is also effected by raid buffs, like the percentage damage increase buff or the spell damage debuff? I just checked the sim and it currently isn't having Frostbrand effected by any raid buffs or mastery.

ziff · 10/27/10, 2:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hothgor

I prefer to look at things from an overall damage output standpoint. Without Fire Elemental, I was able to do 2244237 damage over 2:18 or 16263 dps, and with Fire Elemental I was able to do 1833999 damage over 2:08 or 14328 dps. Granted, I could have suddenly developed a giant case of the stupids during that DPS tests, but I had very similar up-times for my various buffs including the 4 piece bonus.

Not trying to pick on you Hotgarr, but you can't take two parses of fights in between two weeks and determine any sort of pattern. These attempts are just too short and get too effected by random elements. Let's just look at your parses, for example. You had Elemental Destruction up 79.7% on the first parse, but 92.9% on the second parse which is a pretty decent jump (and mind you pretty impressive to keep a 90%+ uptime). You have Maelstrom Weapon procing 39 times a minute in the first parse, but 43 times a minute in the second parse. While your Berserk uptime is pretty similar (53.4% versus 57.4%) you had it proc 7 times in the first parse, but 13 times in the second parse. Probably indicates a double stack of the AP buff. Since your second parse went for an extra 10 seconds, you were able to get in another Shamanistic Rage which proced another Elemental Rage buff that the first parse didn't have. That was also true for Feral Spirits where you were able to get in another 14 seconds of uptime from them.

But even with all that, let's look at the breakdown of your data:

                   2:08 fight              2:18 fight
                  Damage  Dps             Damage  Dps             Diff
Melee             411796 3217.16          500407 3626.14          408.98
Lava Lash         236374 1846.67          389562 2822.91          976.24
Lightning Bolt    180557 1410.60          225180 1631.74          221.14
Flametongue       126002  984.39          136914  992.13            7.74
Windfury          124082  969.39          164948 1195.28          225.88
Flame Shock       120516  941.53          124525  902.36          -39.18
Earth Shock        81773  638.85          118197  856.50          217.65
Lightning Shield   60045  469.10           90070  652.68          183.58
Stormstrike        87622  684.55          138908 1006.58          322.03
Chain Lightning    49268  384.91           40415  292.86          -92.04
Fire Nova          33144  258.94               0    0.00         -258.94
Searing Flames      4151   32.43           46383  336.11          303.68
Fire Elemental    265006 2070.36               0    0.00        -2070.36
Searing Totem       9191   71.80          184983 1340.46         1268.65
Feral Spirits      44472  347.44           83745  606.85          259.41

Totals                  14328.12                16262.59         1934.47

Just look at the passive damage. If you add up the total difference between white hits, windfury, flametongue and static shock you are talking about a swing of 826 dps just from passive damage. That's over 6 times the dps difference Rouncer listed for Fire Elemental versus Searing Totem. If you now include some active sources like Stormstrike, Earth Shock and Flame Shock that adds another swing of 500 dps, and from the parses your casts per minute were roughly the same between parses. Lightning bolt alone was a 221 dps swing which was almost double of the difference Rouncer highlighted. Heck, just the fact you were able to use Feral Spirits twice in the second parse added another 259 dps to your damage.

None of the items I have broken out are effected by the decision to use Fire Elemental versus Searing Totem, but they are definitely all effected by the different procs and effects you were receiving. 120 second fights are just too short to determine any kind of patterns, which is what I'm trying to illustrate.

PS: If you want to get any kind of indication of the amount of a buff Fury warriors got, check out Epitaph. He went from 13k dps on 10/13 to over 21k on 10/19. Buff Enhancement more plz!

Levva · 10/27/10, 6:01 AM

Ziff how do you want the export/import to deal with the engineering enchants AND regular enchants on cloak, boots and gloves? I'm not an engineer so I haven't checked out the possibilities. Can we be 100% certain that there is no possibility of having an engineering enchant and a non stat enchant? ie: are all regular enchants that can be doubled up by engineering enchants simply stats that would be picked up via the paper doll and its only the engineering bonus enchants that have special features?

Mengus · 10/27/10, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by ziff

2.0.14 BETA
- Removed the Mastery effect from Flametongue weapon. Flametongue weapon was getting effected by the Enhancement Mastery elemental damage bonus, but this isn't happening on Live.

While I realize this is mirroring live, since we have some evidence that it is not the case with Frostbrand, is the lack of Mastery impacting Flametongue weapon on live a bug? Granted, the fact that it does not add to FT damage is a big part of what keeps us from going FT/FT, but considering that the damage is elemental/fire damage, maybe it should really be affected by mastery and is worth posting as a bug on the Blizzard forums. I would be happy to make such a post but there probably are some other people who have more clout on the blizzard forums that might be better suited to posting that are regulars here.

ziff · 10/27/10, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mengus

While I realize this is mirroring live, since we have some evidence that it is not the case with Frostbrand, is the lack of Mastery impacting Flametongue weapon on live a bug? Granted, the fact that it does not add to FT damage is a big part of what keeps us from going FT/FT, but considering that the damage is elemental/fire damage, maybe it should really be affected by mastery and is worth posting as a bug on the Blizzard forums. I would be happy to make such a post but there probably are some other people who have more clout on the blizzard forums that might be better suited to posting that are regulars here.

It does seem very random that Flametongue doesn't get effected by Mastery, but Frostbrand does. I'd call it out as a bug, since it does seem that both should be consistent.

Rouncer · 10/27/10, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by ziff

It does seem very random that Flametongue doesn't get effected by Mastery, but Frostbrand does. I'd call it out as a bug, since it does seem that both should be consistent.

It used to be affected by it in the Beta, that I know for sure. They probably were pulling it on purpose when they accidentally disabled the direct damage during that beta patch. It's most likely missing to make sure we don't want to move to FT/FT and to help minimize our passive damage sources.

But, Mengus, feel free to bug report it, can't hurt and should be easy enough for Ziff to update if they decide to let mastery work on it again.

Jomy · 10/28/10, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by ziff

Could you also check to see if Frostbrand is also effected by raid buffs, like the percentage damage increase buff or the spell damage debuff? I just checked the sim and it currently isn't having Frostbrand effected by any raid buffs or mastery.

Did a simple target dummy test with and without these buff/debuffs, Showing yes frostbrand is effected by both the 8% debuff, and 3% buff.

Rouncer · 10/28/10, 1:47 AM

Just did some testing on the live servers. Flametongue is definitely scaling with mastery rating.

8.81 mastery - 37 mastery rating - over 200 flametongue procs with no trinkets or weapon enchants - average damage 474.

15.69 mastery - 353 mastery rating - also over 200 flametongue procs - average damage 541

PvP gear used so all the mastery was reforged from crit rating.

ziff · 10/28/10, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Just did some testing on the live servers. Flametongue is definitely scaling with mastery rating.

8.81 mastery - 37 mastery rating - over 200 flametongue procs with no trinkets or weapon enchants - average damage 474.

15.69 mastery - 353 mastery rating - also over 200 flametongue procs - average damage 541

PvP gear used so all the mastery was reforged from crit rating.

Hmm, I swear to god I tested that pretty thoroughly on live. Let me run some more tests to confirm