[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion (3.3 and onward) - Page 2

Oniwasaka · 01/13/10, 5:56 PM

The list seems fine.. but i still have doudts. Dunno why, but it makes me akward towards using the elemental totem once more. Doesn't the expertise ring fit better? It surely saves you at least 2-3 expertise gems. I am not questioning your list or your effort but it still seems strange. I guess that's where enhsim and rawr come to undo the common sense :p

Cochice · 01/13/10, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Oniwasaka

The list seems fine.. but i still have doudts. Dunno why, but it makes me akward towards using the elemental totem once more. Doesn't the expertise ring fit better? It surely saves you at least 2-3 expertise gems. I am not questioning your list or your effort but it still seems strange. I guess that's where enhsim and rawr come to undo the common sense :p

The expertise ring has been discussed a few times in other threads. Using colossus and gemming expertise is better because it doesn't have the crit on it. The less we can bump up to/over the crit cap the better.

Mabus · 01/13/10, 9:14 PM

Why use the +6 stats gem and not the 10+stats. Once again prob just a "typo".

Also if we are not having cast LB for totem proc why not use the proc to cast CL as it is more DPS and LB while on CD?

Nixx · 01/13/10, 9:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mabus

Why use the +6 stats gem and not the 10+stats. Once again prob just a "typo".

Maybe because you cant use 2x Nightmare Tear? :P

Nice Job Rava, looking forward to see how this list 'may' develop.

Mabus · 01/13/10, 9:29 PM

But there are not two listed in the BIS gemming. Only one +6.

edit: NVM i am blind

Nevets_69 · 01/13/10, 10:32 PM

Managed to refine the current setup to produce 12237 dps.

Here's a link to a zip file contain my Enhsim config, output, as well as a Rawr Config file: link.

Just a note in case you use the currently displayed Rawr xml file it has a couple of issues I had to work out first.
* The fight length is set for 10 minutes
* The talents still have 1 in Shamanistic focus and 1 in Improved Shields (instead of 2 in Imp Shields)
* Totem of the Avalanche is still equipped instead of Bizuri's Totem of Shattered Ice

Other than fixing those minor things in the Rawr xml file, all I did was switch some of the haste gems to hit gems. I just replaced them one by one until the DPS from Enhsim stopped increasing. 12237 dps was as high as I could get it to go.

If you need anything further to update, don't hesitate to ask.

sirtyface · 01/13/10, 11:42 PM

Managed to scrounge out another 35 dps (averaged over 5 trials) over Nevets' build by switching the Flame Shock glyph to the Windfury Weapon glyph, and taking a point out of Reverb and putting it into Imp. Shields:

12271.03 DPS

Config:

### Saved by v1.9.5.8 of EnhSimGUI

config_version                  1.9.5.8
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   7.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.35
min_lag                         230
max_lag                         260
simulate_mana                   1
cast_sr_on_cooldown             1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2
cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       5000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000
necrotic_touch                  1
necrotic_touch_heroic           0

rotation_priority_count         13
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              SS_0
rotation_priority4              MW5_LB
rotation_priority5              FE
rotation_priority6              FS
rotation_priority7              ES_SS
rotation_priority8              SS
rotation_priority9              MT
rotation_priority10             ES
rotation_priority11             LS
rotation_priority12             LL
rotation_priority13             FN

fight_name                      
miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

additional_targets              0
additional_target_percent       25.0
additional_target_level         0
cast_cl_when_aoe                0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1
mixology                        0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          250.6
oh_dps                          250.6
mh_crit                         49.63
oh_crit                         49.63
mh_hit                          16.62
oh_hit                          16.62
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              5358
melee_haste                     31.52
armor_penetration               13.22
str                             151
agi                             1727
int                             806
spi                             171
spellpower                      1607
spell_crit                      33.02
spell_hit                       20.78
spell_haste                     24.25
max_mana                        16206
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       fist
oh_weapon                       fist

trinket1                        herkuml_war_token
trinket2                        tiny_abomination_in_a_jar_heroic

totem                           bizuris_totem_of_shattered_ice

set_bonus1                      t10_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
ring_proc                       ashen_verdict

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
improved_fire_nova              2/2
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Output:

EnhSim version 1.9.5.8

................................................................................

MH:
miss                680505         4.38%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3732091        24.00%
hit                 886219         5.70%
crit                10249424       65.92%
average ap          9514.41        
clip                0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.45%
procs/swings        13.89%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1507888        30.98%
crit                3359550        69.02%
average ap          9500.73        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 610599         31.01%
crit                1358730        68.99%
average ap          9487.58        

OH:
miss                682230         4.39%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3731914        24.00%
hit                 888118         5.71%
crit                10246022       65.90%
average ap          9538.32        
clip                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 11545295       52.74%
crit                10346627       47.26%
average sp          3458.32        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 610776         31.01%
crit                1358553        68.99%
average ap          9532.17        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 803189         52.72%
crit                720232         47.28%
average sp          3444.59        

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 427094         52.67%
crit                383770         47.33%
average sp          3454.47        
dots hit            4743880        100.00%
dots crit           0              0.00%
average dot sp      3454.76        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 606545         30.91%
crit                1355546        69.09%
average ap          9475.91        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1654628        52.72%
crit                1484145        47.28%
average sp          3493.55        

Fire Nova:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 708348         52.66%
crit                636832         47.34%
average sp          3437.63        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2926935        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3464.51        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2009186        23.99%
hit                 5404274        64.52%
crit                962132         11.49%
average ap          9611.82        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3059213        52.77%
crit                2738190        47.23%
average sp          3450.93        

Tiny Abomination in a Jar:
MH
  hit               525585         16.98%
  crit              1021223        33.00%
OH
  hit               525712         16.99%
  crit              1021928        33.02%

Fire Elemental Melee:
miss                89685          7.97%
dodge               47488          4.22%
glancing            270444         24.04%
hit                 683843         60.78%
crit                33595          2.99%

Fire Elemental Fire Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1567499        91.99%
crit                136524         8.01%

Fire Elemental Fire Nova:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 628129         91.98%
crit                54757          8.02%

Fire Elemental Fire Blast:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1091535        92.00%
crit                94913          8.00%

Fire Elemental stats:
average ap          9981.09        
average sp          3593.97        
MPS                 91.19          
MPCooldown          10943.19       
Out of mana time    1.09%
MRPCooldown         2718.21        
MRPS                22.76          

Fire Elemental      MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.42      1.85%
judgement of wisdom 22.23     98.15%


Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 62.98
efficiency          83.07%

flurry uptime                  97.05%
elemental devastation uptime   89.87%
mh enchant uptime              54.85%
oh enchant uptime              55.30%
stormstrike debuff uptime      81.97%
flame shock uptime             79.35%
lightning shield uptime        97.18%
magma totem uptime             64.09%
fire elemental uptime          28.56%

totem uptime                   99.96%
ring proc uptime               16.56%
necrotic touch uptime          55.48%


Set bonus uptimes:
Frost Witch's Battlegear 2 piece        26.01%
Frost Witch's Battlegear 4 piece        41.26%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 16.29     4.95%
replenishment       43.13     13.10%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 108.40    32.92%
shamanistic rage    161.47    49.04%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               4163.20   33.92%    103.66
windfury            1454.49   11.85%    8.11
flametongue         1120.03   9.13%     72.97
stormstrike         575.69    4.69%     6.56      36.17     10.69%
lava lash           405.38    3.3%      6.54      18.02     5.33%
magma totem         467.47    3.81%     2.12      39.39     11.64%
earth shock         437.83    3.57%     5.08      62.95     18.61%
flame shock         260.79    2.12%     2.70      31.65     9.35%
lightning bolt      1330.55   10.84%    10.46     76.66     22.66%
fire nova           276.75    2.25%     4.48      67.94     20.08%
lightning shield    352.42    2.87%     1.39      0.00      0.00%
tiny abomination    222.24    1.81%     10.31
necrotic touch      361.32    2.94%     82.47
spirit wolves       379.47    3.09%     0.40      3.28      0.97%
fire elemental      465.17    3.79%     0.14      2.26      0.67%
  melee             215.86    46.4%     3.75
  fire shield       16.21     3.48%     5.68
  fire nova         120.64    25.94%    2.28
  fire blast        112.46    24.18%    3.95

DPS                 12272.78
MPS                 338.30
MP2min              40596.57
MRPS                530.43
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 23.92s
simulation speed: 752571x

Note: I copied Rava's config file from the first post simply for testing talents/glyphs. As such, I do not have a Rawr file built, but his (and associated notes) serve the same purpose (except to replace the FS glyph with WF).

Levva · 01/14/10, 1:28 PM

Please re-confirm the TAiaJ being in this list given the hotfixes applied and now implemented in v1.9.6.1 of EnhSim.

Acks · 01/14/10, 3:00 PM

Rava, a few issues:

1. the config in the OP lists 250-350 reaction time, but your follow up post instructs us to use 230-260. With the 230-260 reaction time values, I am getting 12336 dps.

2. By unchecking the attack power buff multiplier box (i.e. use UR), i get a few more dps.

3. Moving FE down the list to just above MT yields a few more dps as well. This makes no sense to me as FE is only used once a fight and neither configurations differ otherwise.

4. With regards to reaction time, assuming the player knows which ability to use next and is spamming that key while waiting for GCD expiration, wouldn't the human element be more like ~100ms, and thus 160-180 ms for the reaction time values? Apologies if im missing something here.

Edit: 20ms would be 50 button presses per second which i realize now is ridiculous. Replaced with 100ms which seems likely given a vigorous button spamming frequency.

• Krish · 01/14/10, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Acks

3. Moving FE down the list to just above MT yields a few more dps as well. This makes no sense to me as FE is only used once a fight and neither configurations differ otherwise.

My educated guess is that by moving FE down the list some, the simulator is deploying it a GCD or two later, by which time, on average, you will have gained more AP (and thus SP) from trinket, totem, ring, and berserking procs. Since the FE's damage scales with SP, and the amount is determined only once when the totem is first dropped, that likely explains the increased DPS in the sim.

Existana · 01/14/10, 3:43 PM

Does anyone plan to tackle a BiS non-heroic gear and set-up list? Rava expressed if someone were to put together a list, he would consider maintaining it.

Gbits · 01/14/10, 3:49 PM

While less relevant to the mission of discovering true BiS, that would be extremely helpful. I'd volunteer to help with some of the lifting, but don't consider myself competent enough to establish/maintain it.

[e] Typo

rava · 01/14/10, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Acks

4. With regards to reaction time, assuming the player knows which ability to use next and is spamming that key while waiting for GCD expiration, wouldn't the human element be more like ~100ms, and thus 160-180 ms for the reaction time values? Apologies if im missing something here.

The numbers requested are probably on the generous side and we can certainly get them more exact.

Way to get more accurate numbers:

1. Go to a target dummy
2. Being autoattacking the dummy
3. Cast a totem(totem is important because it is a 1 second GCD)
4. Immediately mash Stormstrike until it goes off
5. Count how many key presses it took you for the Stormstrike to go off(for me it's 8)
6. Divide 1 by the amount of keypresses it took for your Stormstrike to go off
7. Multiply the result by 1000
8. Subtract your in game latency from the result(my latency is 63)

So my numbers would look like: (1/8*1000)-63 or a reaction time of 62 MS

Before the thread starts getting spammed with latency figures, is there anything in that list that seems off or should be corrected? My figures are only included in there as an example, and is not a welcome invitation to post "I have 50 MS reaction time" posts in this thread.

Potential issues:

Dishonesty!
Lag variance
Is it enough variance when accounting for awareness during raids

Acks · 01/14/10, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by rava

My figures are only included in there as an example, and is not a welcome invitation to post "I have 50 MS reaction time" posts in this thread.

Potential issues:

Dishonesty!
Lag variance
Is it enough variance when accounting for awareness during raids

I could be wrong but I dont think a small variation in reaction time / latency would put one piece of gear over another in the BiS list, so 230-260 is fair enough to account for network latency, spamming latency and environmental awareness. Our only other recourse would be to amass a large number of latency samples using your method above, which seems like splitting hairs.

One other small tweak to your basic EnhSim config: Changing "cast SR only if mana left" to a lower number like 1000 increases the overall dps by a tiny amount.

Lastly, would it be wise to set a minimum dps increase value to avoid posts that provide a 2 dps increase? For example, perhaps a 50 dps minimum increase in dps before a change in gear configuration will be posted? I just ran the sim twice, with a scant 10ms change in latency (240-270) and this account for ~30dps change, so I think arguments on BiS gear regarding a 30 dps change aren't really accomplishing anything.

Deathicle · 01/14/10, 4:26 PM

It doesn't seem likely that TAiaJ is one of the BiS trinkets. The non-heroic one sims out as being worse than CT, WFS and DBW. There are heroic version of 2 of those trinkets too.

Edit: I just checked some of the numbers and if the sim is modeling TAiaJ correctly, then it is indeed the BiS. If the sim is correct, does anyone have an explanation for why TAiaJ suddenly jumps in potency?

Edit2: The likely culprit is the fact that we are will easily be crit capped with WFS, and likewise lose out on 1/3rd of the effectiveness of DBW.