Trickykid

Unless my math is wrong, change cell B47 from:
to
Edited: added the full cell...

 

Crepe

That's fine, it's enough to give me a place to start digging to experiment. Also,

I would've assumed most people playing around with CSD had Ruin, though I guess it merits some testing with other builds (UA, FG, etc.).

 

Trickykid

A ruin specced lock will have (1+1.06*crit) multiplier and a non-ruin lock will have (1+0.545*crit). My edit above should give those values.

 

Crepe

Interesting. This gives 206% crits with Ruin, no? I thought the CSD had been tested at 209%, like the old RED.

EDIT: Also seems to screw up the TNS section. Trying to locate dps_5 and such in the sheet only seems to yield empty cells on the gear comparison sheet. Is this OpenOffice weirdness, perhaps?

 

Trickykid

I haven't tested it, I just was working under the assumption that if your crits hit for 1 damage without CSD, they hit for 1.03 with it. I stopped hearing about 209% bonus a while ago so I figured that was edited. I don't have any data either way, just reading off the tooltip.
It didn't screw up TNS for me but that reminded me you'll have to make that edit for ALL the hidden TNS tabs. Doh...

I use 2007 so not sure about openoffice.

EDIT: I edited the post with the change -- I was only posting the first 3 lines of the cell, so maybe that was the issue you saw.

 

Crepe

Yup, un-hid the tabs and saw that the change had to be made on all of them. Fun fun. Hopefully a little more hacking and I'll have a nice toggle button to flip CSD on and off. I guess you can just eyeball MSD by assigning it an average haste rating bonus?

Haven't had much of a chance to play around with CSD (just got T5 hat last night), but initial reports in the "undocumented" changes thread mentioned it was 209%. Nothing beats verifying it in game, though.

 

Trickykid

Yeah, I did that for a couple demo talents as well. Just add CSD with a cell containing 0 or 1 and use that as a multiplier for the added portion.

I'm not sure how others modeled this, but I'd find the frequency of procs (internal cooldown + #spells * procrate). Inverse it for procs per second, and multiply by your "DPS", since you gain 1 second of DPS-time per proc. The problem with average haste rating is that it's only active for the one spell its used on. Be interesting to see if calculating both ways come up with the same number.

 

Crepe

Well, the trouble with modeling it as a multiplier of DPS for anything but a SB spam build is that most of the non-SB spells you're casting gain 0 benefit from haste. Hence why I wanted to model it as a haste% in the sheet, since it seems to account for this already (TNS haste is much much lower for UA-style builds than SB spam ones). Though, I guess if you were smart with MSD procs you'd only use them on spells where it mattered, i.e., SB, SoC or Hellfire. This may or may not throw your dot rotation out of whack.

 

Trickykid

That is true. However the problem with doing an average uptime is that it's really only ever "up" for 1.5 seconds per proc (since any spell you'd cast would be reduced to 1.5 seconds).

You could multiply the "bonus" second of DPS by the % of casts that are SBs. This makes you count the proc only if you used it on a SB.

 

• frmorrison

Trickykid, can you share your modified spreadsheet? While it isn't hard replacing formulas, it is nice if someone already did it .

 

Trickykid

Currently my sheet is a bleeding mess that would take more documentation than is worth writing. I had my own spreadsheet prior to finding this one and as soon as I switched to Leulier's I started mashing components into it until it did everything I wanted it to :P.

I have been considering making it pretty and usable for a while... maybe it's finally time.

/sigh

 

Crepe

Here's my kludgey first attempt. It's pretty much just the basic Leulier sheet with my stats and CSD added on the right-hand side of the DPS page.

Note I used a 1.09 modifier times the crit multiplier (0.5 w/o Ruin, 1 with Ruin), as it seems to be functioning like the old RED [0]. This may or may not reflect reality w/o Ruin and I'm too cheap to respec to test it out. Anyone have any info on CSD and normal caster crits?

[0] Source: Chaotic Skyfire Diamond - Items - World of Warcraft [1]
[1] Wish I could find the EJ source where I first saw it, but searching for chaotic skyfire and/or CSD is failing me atm.

 

Snowrelax

I'd like to just point out that the nextstat section compares hit rating, not actual %. It's 14 HR for 1% and 22.1 CR for 1% I believe. So according to the lengths you're putting out, yes it is still wrong, but I'll explain why it could still be correct in the next paragraph. Please take into mind if anyone else is going to post nextstat critiques that 1 HR : 1 CR is not the same proportion as 1% HR : 1% CR.

__________________________________________________________


Please take into mind that what the nextstat section does is display the mathematical equivalency at a given point of time and stats (a.k.a. the stats entered.) So after you gain 1 spell damage, the numbers change. This effect multiplies as your stats change more. If the proportions between relative dps increase values of hit, crit, spell damage, etc., were static, there would be no purpose of a dynamic chart.

What the Nextstat section does is very analogous to finding the derivative of a 3rd or higher degree function at a single point in time (in this case: stats). As the stats change, so does the appropriate derivative, and the more drastically the stats change, the more drastic the value proportions may as well.

 

Bolche

(I didn't know where to post this so I posted it un my dps spreadsheet topic).

Since ISB uptime is THE question about warlock DPS, and what makes crit worth, I wrote a ISB Uptime simulator :

http://www.leulier.com/isb-simulator.php

This way people can easely test how some modifications to their gear/spec can modify the ISB uptime.

The ultimate goal is to find a good model of how your stats change your raid ISB uptime, and thus to give a good estimation of the value of crit rating in term of raid dps.

Feedback is greatly appreciated !

 

• frmorrison

Thanks for the update Leulier!

Now if you could put the sim into your spreadsheet, that would be even better, plus add CSD and Tier 6 bonus .

 

Trickykid

Great tool! I'll play around with it more later and see how it matches up to the numbers I have been using. However my first feedback is that because the uptime % varies pretty wildly even at the maximum time length input, that the length cap should be increased. Otherwise you would have to run the sim enough times that the average settled down to a steady number.

 

Altyera

That is truly awesome. Can you add an option to break down uptime for each individual warlock's ISB debuffs? This would allow us to use an estimated total raid Shadow DPS to determine a very accurate "Raid damage contribution from ISB per crit %", which is arguably the Holy Grail of warlock min/maxing!

Of course in order to do that, we'd want to run a large sample of simulations (maybe 100 runs or so) to obtain good averages. That would be a great option, too. Your ISP doesn't hit you for processor cycles, do they?

 

Stapedius

I´d like to second this.

 

Filthie

Or maybe he could get it to calculate alot more tries at one click(maybe get another box in where you can choose how many tries you want), and calculate the average % that it then shows. That would be great with increased timeline aswell. And maybe throw in maxmin values from those calculations aswell to see how much it varies, unless it´s too much work/time taken

 

Sinsei

I found an error with the shadowbolt calculation although it's not a big one. The % value for saccing a felguard shows 1.15 when it should be 1.10.

I also modified a version of the v1.15 sheet for myself for CSD meta and T6 4-piece bonus option boxes. All sheets including TNS sheets were included in the change to the option boxes as well.

I called it 1.15.bloq.xls since it's a minor change. Enjoy.

http://www.denied-wow.com/warlock_dps_v1.15.bloq.xls

 

Bolche

Due to a lot of requests, I release the 1.16 a little sooner than planned.

Here is the changelog :

* Corrected a bug in "The Next Stat" section when using wand filler (wahoo, how did I noticed that !)
* Added Demonic Knowledge, Demonic Embrace, Fel Intellect and Fel Stamina to the item compare tab.
* Added an "Advanced Option" tab where you can found various options like meta and set bonus. Currently :
o CSD Metagem : (+12 Spell Critical) & 3% Increased Critical Damage
o Tier 6 4/5 bonus : Increases the damage dealt by your Shadow Bolt and Incinerate abilities by 6%.
o Tier 4 4/5 bonus : Increases the duration of your Corruption and Immolate abilities by 3 sec.
o Tier 4 2/5 bonus : Your shadow/fire damage spells chance to grant 135 +shadow/+fire damage for 15 sec


A lot of trinket / set bonus will be added very soon, in particular :
MSD metagem, Tier 5 4/5 bonus, Ashtongue Talisman of Shadows, spellstrike.

If you have any request / suggestion, please let me know !


edit : thanks Apoq for your additions, I'll look at them to see it we get the same results for CSD and T6 4/5 bonus

 

• frmorrison

I can echo the error shown by Bloq, Felguard sac says 15% more shadow damage while it is only 10% shadow damage.

Also Soul Siphon is buffing Drain Life by 5% in your sheet, while in-game it is 4%, just change 5 to 4.


CSD calc may be off, it gives 206% crit damage with Ruin and 153% without.


As to MSD, it is really hard to calculate, since in practice it will turn a 2.5 SB to 1.5 SB or a 5 second Drain life to a 2.5 second Drain Life.

 

Sinsei

I believe my sheet reflects 209% for ruin+CSD, but mine's a bit more crude than v1.16 =D

Nice work on v1.16 looks good.

 

Bolche

MSD is like a second Nightfall. The hardest part is to find the proc frequency, because of the hidden cooldown, but it sould not be too hard

 

Arelenda

deleted.