(another) DPS Spreadsheet - Page 40

Gnomish · 03/31/08, 6:24 PM

I'm having a little trouble with the spreadsheet and was hoping someone could help me out.

I just downloaded the newest version, and was inputting my current gear.

After changing a couple of pieces to obtain the hit cap (203), I went back to the "DPS" tab to see what the stat would become most valuable for me to stack. The problem was, however that it still listed hit above anything else. (1.7, compared to crit at 1.3, and haste at 1.25, and damage at 1.) I was wondering if this is a common problem, or what i can do to solve it.

I'm using the latest version of OpenOffice.org, and have allowed my macros to function.

Thank you.

Arnath · 03/31/08, 7:55 PM

I'm pretty sure it says this somewhere, but the latest version of the spreadsheet doesn't consider the hit cap when determining the value of the next point of each stat so hit rating always (afaik) be at the top. You can make it sort gear ignoring hit rating and just ignore the first couple (+hit) gems so this doesn't really matter much.

Gnomish · 03/31/08, 10:20 PM

Thanks.

• frmorrison · 04/01/08, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by Bolche

Do you know the proc rate and the internal CD (if it has one) ?

All I know are from a few PTR screenshots.

Both have a 45 second cooldown, however the chance to proc is hard to tell with a combat log.

Cuero · 04/01/08, 8:43 AM

i really like the spreadsheet and i´m using it now for quite a while.

playing a bit around with the new shiney fire-speccs, i´m still searching for the "improved scorch" option in the spreadsheet - or is improved scorch already included in the dps-calculation?

i´m also missing the "immolate" option as raid-buff. both, scorch + immolate, significantly increase incinerate dmg

thx and best regards,

cuero

Caffeine · 04/01/08, 9:31 AM

Imp. Scorch is in the Debuff tab and Incinerate damage is calculated under the assumption that Immolate is always up.

Pidge · 04/01/08, 11:57 AM

Assuming there isn't already a better tool out there, is it possible to expand the scope of the Raid ISB tab to help determine which warlocks in a raid should go Shadow and which should go Fire to maximize raid DPS?

Cuero · 04/01/08, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by Caffeine

Imp. Scorch is in the Debuff tab and Incinerate damage is calculated under the assumption that Immolate is always up.

thank you

Altyera · 04/01/08, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Pidge

Assuming there isn't already a better tool out there, is it possible to expand the scope of the Raid ISB tab to help determine which warlocks in a raid should go Shadow and which should go Fire to maximize raid DPS?

All warlocks should always go Shadow to maximize raid DPS.

plopinou · 04/01/08, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by Altyera

All warlocks should always go Shadow to maximize raid DPS.

I'm not really sure about this statement.
If only one T6 warlock goes shadow, he can sustain a 50% ISB uptime for 2 sp, instead of 65% with 3 shadow warlock.
that's only a ~2.73% dps nerf for 2 sp and a warlock (even if in fact the priest are less nerfed, and the warlock is more).
For 2 * 1400dps sp, it's a 80dps loss, and for a 2100 dps shadow wl, it's a 60dps loss

The 2 others walrock can go fire, which increase their dps by 5.5 to 6% (120dps for each one) if the spreadsheet is correct, and assuming they have the stuff/enchants for fire.

The total gain is 100dps.

So if you have 3 warlock, having one shadow and the others fire seem to be the most optimal way to go.

Pidge · 04/01/08, 11:33 PM

I think it ultimately comes down to what stats the warlocks and SP have. Which is why I was looking for a in depth tool to find the proper balance for my guild.

Flamingcloud · 04/02/08, 1:31 AM

Originally Posted by plopinou

I'm not really sure about this statement.
If only one T6 warlock goes shadow, he can sustain a 50% ISB uptime for 2 sp, instead of 65% with 3 shadow warlock.
that's only a ~2.73% dps nerf for 2 sp and a warlock (even if in fact the priest are less nerfed, and the warlock is more).
For 2 * 1400dps sp, it's a 80dps loss, and for a 2100 dps shadow wl, it's a 60dps loss

The 2 others walrock can go fire, which increase their dps by 5.5 to 6% (120dps for each one) if the spreadsheet is correct, and assuming they have the stuff/enchants for fire.

The total gain is 100dps.

So if you have 3 warlock, having one shadow and the others fire seem to be the most optimal way to go.

lol, what gear spec has incin 120 dps better than shadow? Like I said my calculation was 30 dps better for a gain of around 1.2%.

plopinou · 04/02/08, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

lol, what gear spec has incin 120 dps better than shadow? Like I said my calculation was 30 dps better for a gain of around 1.2%.

For a standard raid we have :
- Common raid buff (PoF, AI, MotW, DS non improved, BoK, BoW)
- 100mp5 mana potion
- 23dmg food
- 43dmg oil
- a shaman heal in group providing WoA for +101dmg and Mana Spring/Tide + Bloodlust
- a Ret Pal providing a constant JoW and 66 crit rating
- no sp in group
- no affli lock in raid (no 1.13 coe/cos)

With my Shadow stuff, i have fully buffed :
+ 1478dmg and + 187 shadow dmg for a total of +1665 shadow
+ 201 hit rating
+ 373 crit rating (including the 66 from ret pal)
+ 170 haste rating (including a bloodlust of 40s over 360s)
+ 337 mp5

Loading the 0/21/40 Shadow preset, the spreadsheet gives me 2298.17 dps.

With my Fire stuff (we change the 2H enchant to sunfire and the back to the illidari council one + 3 gem to close the gap to the +hit cap), i have :
+ 1520dmg and + 130 fire dmg for a total of +1650 fire
+ 198 hit rating
+ 383 crit rating (including the 66 from ret pal)
+ 170 haste rating (including a bloodlust of 40s over 360s)
+ 337 mp5

Loading the 0/21/40 Fire preset, the spreadsheet gives me 2411.84dps.

So in fire spec i gain 113.67dps with my current gear which is a 5% dps increase, without counting chain flame cap (6.1% with and a 142.3dps gain)

The raid ISB uptime drop from 65% to 57.7% with 2 other shadow warlock and 2 sp.
Dropping one more shadow warlock and letting just one in that spec down the ISB uptime to 50% with 2 sp.

Where am i wrong ?

kamborambo · 04/02/08, 1:11 PM

v2.3 it looks like you correctly calculated + added timbals focusing crystal in the advanced info tab, but it doesnt look like its been implemented throughout the whole spreadsheet? (i.e. items tab has it as the 12th best trinket for my aff lock)

Murdoch · 04/02/08, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by plopinou

For a standard raid we have :
- Common raid buff (PoF, AI, MotW, DS non improved, BoK, BoW)
- 100mp5 mana potion
- 23dmg food
- 43dmg oil
- a shaman heal in group providing WoA for +101dmg and Mana Spring/Tide + Bloodlust
- a Ret Pal providing a constant JoW and 66 crit rating
- no sp

With my Shadow stuff, i have fully buffed :
+ 1478dmg and + 187 shadow dmg for a total of +1665 shadow
+ 201 hit rating
+ 373 crit rating (including the 66 from ret pal)
+ 170 haste rating (including a bloodlust of 40s over 360s)
+ 337 mp5

Loading the 0/21/40 Shadow preset, the spreadsheet gives me 2298.17 dps.

With my Fire stuff (we change the 2H enchant to sunfire and the back to the illidari council one + 3 gem to close the gap to the +hit cap), i have :
+ 1520dmg and + 130 fire dmg for a total of +1650 fire
+ 198 hit rating
+ 383 crit rating (including the 66 from ret pal)
+ 170 haste rating (including a bloodlust of 40s over 360s)
+ 337 mp5

Loading the 0/21/40 Fire preset, the spreadsheet gives me 2411.84dps.

So in fire spec i gain 113.67dps with my current gear which is a 5% dps increase, without counting chain flame cap (6.1% with and a 142.3dps gain)

The raid ISB uptime drop from 65% to 57.7% with 2 other shadow warlock and 2 sp.
Dropping one more shadow warlock and letting just one in that spec down the ISB uptime to 50% with 2 sp.

Where am i wrong ?

The bolded, underlined and upsized line is key. With no shadow priest(s) it's safe to say that Incinerate builds would prevail in the dps race (assuming you have fire mages keeping up scorch debuffs). However my guild, along with all the others which I'm familiar with, all use at least 1 shadow priest. In the context of a SP's dmg buffs shadow specs still win, although not by as much post-2.4. Shadow priest mana and health return effects can significantly increase a raid's dps by reducing the amount of time your mana users spend regenerating mana through various mechanisms. They are really quite valuable, esp to hunters and locks; less so for mages and healers (post-2.4 spirit changes).

And while I see the benefit from a ret paladin, most guilds and people I know don't consider their benefits to be worth the valuable raid spot.