Bolche

I'm currently working on the pets dps sheet, but I have a lot a RL work these days, so it does not go fast.
Once its completed, I will release it and start working the "mana management" sheet. This sheet will aim at answering all the mana-related question :
You enter your mana, mp5, mana pots consomation, other kinds of buff, jugment of wisdom yes/no, etc. and it will give you your full-dps oom time, the required frequency of LT/DP (if available) to reach infinite sustainability. Or you enter a time, and it gives you the number of LT it will require you to be able to DPS this time, etc.

I hope to release the pet dps this week-end. Thanks to keep giving me feed-back

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

Thuze

I love this spreadsheet and find it very helpful in improving my lock-fu.

How do I show Amplify Curse in the rotation?

 

Bolche

Amplify Curse will be added in the next version. If you want to model it now, you can just increase CoD damage by 16.7% and CoA by 6.7%.

I need help with pet stats again, especially for the FG since I don't have one. I'm currently only modeling imp, succubus and FG since the others are obviously not a dps choice.

What are the FG base AP, base melee damage range ?
For intel. It is : imp : 327 + 30% of WL Intel and for succubus it is 133 + 30% of WL Intel. I don't know the base intel for the FG.
The pet mana seems to follow theses rules, but I'm not sure :
Imp : 849+imp intel*4,7
Succ : 1109+succ intel*10,6

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

nasda

Actually I don't know how to use this spreadsheet to calculate dps of different specs (lol). But what I want to know is which spec will do more dmg in the upcoming patch(with shadow priest's debuff nerf - 5%), fire destruction or shadow destruction?

cos I am currently on the cross road to choose whether to make spellfire or shadoweave set.

Thx

 

• frmorrison

I have a FG, I will try to remember to find its base AP, stam, and int. I think the best way to do it is write down each number, then subtract the gains to those stats from my character sheet.
Then I can remove all my damage gear to find the Felguard's base damage range.

For the pet mana pool, I recall pets getting 10 mana per point of int plus a varing base level of mana.

The Demo talent that gives 20% more melee damage to pets also increases the Imp's firebolt by 20% (the tooltip is not totally correct).

Pet Scaling notes:
# Pets get about 30% of stamina added to their stamina.
# Pets get about 30% of int added to their int.
# Pets get about 57% of the highest damage school added to their melee attack power.
# Pets get about 15% of the highest damage school added to their spell damage.
# Pets get about 40% of the resistances added to their own resistances.

Edit: Oops had the hunter numbers earlier

 

Bolche

v1.11 is available. It is the first with pet dps support, but still need a lot of improvement, but I needed some feedback before.

- Added amplify curse
- Added imp and succubus DPS. FG dps is not correct yet. "The next stat" section does not factor the dps increase of your pet

As for pet scalling, what you wrote is correct but I beleave that it is 57% of +dmg to AP, and 15% to +dmg

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

• frmorrison

What is the macro in the spreadsheet for? I didn't run it for fear it might be something bad.


Base Stats of the FG (I included the base stats of the owner slightly which buffs int somewhat:

350 Stamina (322 without base stats)
195 int (152 without base stats)
Base AP 286
He has a damage range of 178-234, all pets have a 2.0 melee swing speed.

Notes:
My FG has a 9% miss rate on level 70s
From letting my pet attack things for a while in AV, he had 150 dps (this is after being affected by armor and miss rate, cleave on autocast).

Corrections:
Lash of Pain's base damage is 123 shadow, I saw 99.
Lash of Pain is affected by Unholy Power
Firebolt is affected by Unholy Power

 

Bolche

I have make macros to show/hide the sheets I use for additional calculations, and used them before exporting and before debugging/improving the spreadsheet. I then realised it was making freaking "macro danger" warning so I removed them, but the warning stay.The macro warning should be fiexed now.
I also corrected LoP according to frmorrison's remarks.

One thing I am missing is the FG mana. It is an important information since cleave costs 10% of base mana.

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

◊ Kyth

I'm seeing some substantial differences between the data from 1.10 and 1.11 that aren't explained by the notes (which seem to just be amp curse and pet-related.)

Specifically, when entering identical data (gear, talents, lag, dotrecast, raid buffs, etc.) my immolate damage is the same, but my all my shadow damage spells show lower totals (it looks like by about 9%.) I thought maybe you had added in the changes to shadoweaving, but that doesn't seem to be the case yet (although a value of "1.10" would be nice, I usually use 1.09.) I made sure I wasn't using either amp curse or a pet in the new spreadsheet.

And "the next stat" value for fire is the same, but for crit is more than double, and is a bit lower for shadow, hit, and generic damage.

I think I've eliminated all the possible sources of user error, but I might be wrong. I'll look at it later today, as well as seeing if I can find what the difference might be.

 

• frmorrison

Thanks for fixing the macro stuff, I don't want to run unknown macros .

One thing I should test is if Lash of Pain is a spell or melee attack (so double or 1.5 damage) and its miss rate, I am unsure.

You don't need to know the Felguard's base mana formula, just read the tooltip over a 70 Felguard's cleave. I will try look it up later, but if I had to guess the cost I would say 165 mana (it is less than 190 mana).

 

◊ Kyth

Melee. It lands on the spell-immune mobs in Karazhan just fine.

Pretty funny to hear the other casters whining about why you're pulling ahead of them on that trash .

 

Bolche

Hum Kyth, I checked and it seems OK.
The difference is probably in the default model for the ISB. I think I released the previous version with an ISB Model set to custom and to 50%. As you force the value of the ISB uptime, the isb uptime increase du to having more crit is not taken into account in "the next stat" section.

As for the cleave mana cost. I looked at the spell on thottbot and it says "10% of base mana", so I suppose its scales somewhat with the FG mana, though I don't know what precisely defines base mana

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

◊ Kyth

Yes. That's exactly the difference. And I've never messed around with it so didn't think of it. Sorry for the trouble!

I'm still seeing some small variations (total dps with what seems to be the same settings is 1252 new vs 1308 old, shadow spells varying by ~3%), but that's much more in the realm of "small error somewhere that I made."


This is a pretty big difference in how +crit is valued, heh. Going from 20% (of a +dmg) to 45%. But in the dark ages before spreadsheets, I valued crit at around 30%, as I discounted it somewhat since so few fights are tank-and-spank, so I guess we're just circling around that .


(again, thank you so much for this spreadsheet.)

 

Kruthal

If base mana works like it does for players, that means that Cleave costs 10% of the mana a Felguard has when he's not getting any buffs or mana through the players int, the mana he has just for being lvl70. The same way, say, a druid's shapeshifting costs are a percentage of base mana, and thus cost the same no matter what gear you wear, but will increase in cost when you level up.

Buffing the int/mana of the Felguard should not change how much mana Cleave costs, so all you need is some lvl70 Felguard-specced warlock to tell you what that is ;-).

 

Sinsei

I've been looking at this sheet today and playing around with different things.

One thing I noticed was that with 1000 shadow (850 fire) damage, the best possible DPS spec was something like 2/41/15 +3 with FG out DPSing. Is that right? It was about 100 dps over a standard affliction raid build. Does that assume your pet has infinite mana for a long sustained fight?

I also noticed that some talents aren't selectable (Devastation, Backlash, Demon Knowledge for spell power, etc..) The users can assume to add their own crit/dmg into the gear section, but having them selectable would be nice. That way we can put in our base stats into the sheet and not have to worry about changing this and that to correct it. The whole point of a damage spread sheet is to do the math for everyone right? Sorry I'm lazy like most Americans =P

I can add it in just fine myself, but I find it would be easier/faster to look at different specs if the user could just select/deselect all the damage talents then have the sheet auto-correct the crit and dmg.

Nice work btw, <3

 

Demi9OD

The FG DPS is coming in way higher than real world scenario. Probably due to armor reduction or something, but I really have never seen a FG do more than 230'ish dps on a standard armor raid target (Aran and Astromancer would be the exceptions). FG's need VE to survive on most everything. If they have the spriest they also have VT, and they will never run out of mana.

 

• frmorrison

Felguard doesn't need VE to survive, you could heal the FG (at the cost of your own dps though). My rarely FG runs out of mana, although I do have 1 in mana feed. If he does, I can get Fel Dom another one.

The reason why FG dps is so high atm is there many errors in the values for the felguard's dps (like assuming the 50% AP buff is always up). I am sure Bolche isn't done yet .

The issue with FG is if you can keep him up, it is likely the best on paper raid dps spec especially with the soonish reduction in glancing blows and 360 degree raping of melee types, but you don't always have a Shadow Priest (and when you do, you may not be in his group) to keep him alive. Health funnel is too much of a hit in dps in raids to use it enough to keep him alive.

 

Demi9OD

The damage lost when the FG dies is easily enough to justify HF though. Losing 5% SL + 5% MD + 180 spell damage from DK the second that thing keels over is a massive hit.

 

• frmorrison

Confirmed that Cleave costs 295 mana and the Succubus's Lash of Pain counts as a melee attack that does shadow damage.

 

Sinsei

Another thing I noticed is that Destro seems pretty low on paper for DPS in comparison to the other trees. But I see alot of high end guilds are still using destro locks for raids and I was curious as to why if it's one of the lower end specs?

Is it because of the burst damage potential?

Forgive me, I've been raiding as a rogue for 2 years, so I'm still on a learning curve for warlocks.

(I also noticed the same for frost mages? I thought an arcane/fire mix was best dps, but higher end guilds still have frost mages too)

 

• frmorrison

Assuming you had a Scorch Mage around, Destro is competitive (as long as you got some HoTs) and that build scales the best (although you need some really high +damage and crit that does not exist to beat Affliction).

With the need for quality players that can play most raids, I would think some guilds would accept a Destro or Frost Mage if they were good at it, a few less personal dps should not make much difference especially if the player is happier with that spec.

 

Sinsei

I would agree wholeheartedly. I would rather have have a good player with a lesser dps spec than a less skilled player with high dps spec especially if they were good at it.

I know exactly what you mean, being a Hemo rogue pre-bc (before combat potency). Hemo might not have been the best spec back then, but I was human with MSA and Anubisath offhand. I worked it pretty well sometimes beating dagger rogues and always above the sword rogues.

After all it is a game right? It's nice to spec how you like, to have to most fun.

I was just curious if these high end guilds with fire locks and frost mages were by choice or they actually thought it was better dps. I thought maybe there was something I didn't know about destro builds (and frost mage builds) that made them superior for endgame. I questioned this mainly because I see numerous of them in all the latest kill videos for Tier 5 instances.

Like you say though, if it's by choice thats understandable, if not maybe I'm missing something.

 

nasda

From what you said in there, obviously you didn't watch eoy(from forte, EU Kazzak)'s movies. I highly recommend you to do so before you are making any comments about destruction warlock. You should know how imba shadow destruction locks shadowbolt spamming only playstyle is.

 

• frmorrison

I have seen an Eoy movie before, and Destro Locks are not imbalanced because they have very high mana usage without much healing received from their damage to lessen the mana needed to sustain high dps.

Now a highly skilled player with consumables can get most specs to be "top dps", but if someone is asking for advice if Destro is a decent build, most likely they want to know a general statement , which as said it is a raid competitive build especially if imp scorch is up.

 

Bolche

I have made some little corrections to the pet dps sheet.
I also changed the default setting for the pet buffs to something more likely. FG can push really high dps if he is in a melee dps group (war shout, TSA, Str/Agi Totems, etc.), but a warlock will probably not be in such group.
I also set the glancing blow % to the current value (40%). 30% was the value for the next patch.

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet