4.0 Pre-Cataclysm Raiding - Page 12

tr0tsky · 10/16/10, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Peste

Untrue. Being GCD locked means haste becomes less valuable if all of your spells are at or below 1.5 seconds cast. Sure you may cast something faster, but the GCD is still going to stop you from casting another spell. That means it is worth forgoing additional haste and getting whatever the next best stat is.

Except that a lot of our bonus from haste comes from getting extra tics on our dots, which doesn't cap. More tics on Immolate translates to higher Conflag damage as well.

matornot · 10/16/10, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

It looks like the imp's GCD is not scaling with haste as it should. With the fire bolt's cast time at 1.26s, the imp has a noticeable time between his casts, and I can not somehow make that pause go away. When I spec to affliction and use the imp (No Dark arts talent) his cast time becomes 1.8s, and I can make him chaincast flawlessly.

For the time being it's safe to say that destro should spec into Dark Arts only to the point at which Firebolt hits 1.5 sec, and put those extra points into Improved Corruption then Doom and Gloom.

I just checked my Succy and she casted 10 Lashes of Pain in 15 sec, while my GCD is at 1.05 sec. If/when they fix this, it will be nice to get an extra 50% damage out of her.

About Incinerate vs. SB for Demo, my SBs always turn out on top despite the tooltips indicating Incinerate's higher base damage.

Originally Posted by buddyro18

Been testing the imp, felhunter and succubus out. Imp isn't breaking more than 750 dps on my tests (that's on target dummy, fel armor only), the felhunter tops out at around 1350, even with the talent for bite, and the succubus is doing 1750 with the lash of pain glyph. So please do tell me how to make my imp out dps these others, because i just can't see it.

Fel Embers is considered part of the player's damage done, so your imp's damage is actually higher than recount says. The main reason, however, is for Empowered Imp.

Xayide · 10/16/10, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by tr0tsky

Except that a lot of our bonus from haste comes from getting extra tics on our dots, which doesn't cap. More tics on Immolate translates to higher Conflag damage as well.

Also, don't forget haste lowers the GCD by up to 0.5s, so the effect on the cast time of spells only stops mattering when they are at or below 1s, not 1.5s.

Krimsun · 10/16/10, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Frankly you'd be better off using Soulburn on instant soul fire's whenever you have to move.

On movement heavy or add fights that would be true, but on stationary fights I don't think that it is. And granted, most fights do have adds or movement, but I've been stuck running demo to give my guild pact so far, so my only play with Afflic has been on the dummies.

Mystearica · 10/16/10, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by buddyro18

Been testing the imp, felhunter and succubus out. Imp isn't breaking more than 750 dps on my tests (that's on target dummy, fel armor only), the felhunter tops out at around 1350, even with the talent for bite, and the succubus is doing 1750 with the lash of pain glyph. So please do tell me how to make my imp out dps these others, because i just can't see it.

Thanks.

Did you remember 3/3 Dark Arts & Glyph of Imp? Using an Imp as affliction is only remotely possible as the Drain spec. Even then I'm unsure which will do more. Especially now that it was pointed out that the Imp doesn't scale past the 1.5sec GCD, where the Succubus doesn't scale with haste at all. You can probably get away with only putting 1 or 2pts into Dark Arts(probably 2 if you're reforging Haste into Mastery for Draining) & still get 3/3 SnF with the imp, if its capped at 1.5sec.

Mystearica · 10/16/10, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by buddyro18

Thank you for only reading the first line of my post. /ignored.

Obviously you would reforge crit first. I assumed that was obvious. I mentioned reforging haste into mastery as in Hit/Haste items that don't have crit or spirit, which you wouldn't reforge for any spec other than the drain spec. I apologize for not going into more detail.

Warlocomotif · 10/16/10, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mystearica

Obviously you would reforge crit first. I assumed that was obvious. I mentioned reforging haste into mastery as in Hit/Haste items that don't have crit or spirit, which you wouldn't reforge for any spec other than the drain spec. I apologize for not going into more detail.

You would reforge hit to mastery and then gem for whatever hit you need.

I considered including a clause about reforging away hit rating that you do need to make space for gems- but figured it was probably beyond the scope of the OP.

Ekeln · 10/16/10, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

You would reforge hit to mastery and then gem for whatever hit you need.

I considered including a clause about reforging away hit rating that you do need to make space for gems- but figured it was probably beyond the scope of the OP.

According to the new scaling factors in the Simcraft thread, Destro now wants Haste just like Demo.

• Jessamy · 10/16/10, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by drxyron

Im looking for some advice, i need some help with this macro :

/cast [@pettarget,exists]Felstorm
/cast Shadow Bolt

my char keeps yelling "i cant use that yet", can somebody help me to make gim shut up ?

Add these two lines to the beginning and end of your macro.

/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
/script UIErrorsFrame:RegisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")

Warlocomotif · 10/17/10, 1:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ekeln

According to the new scaling factors in the Simcraft thread, Destro now wants Haste just like Demo.

I'll say to you what I said in response to a private message I got today:

We're still doing a *lot* of work on simc on a more or less daily basis, for example today we found out that the imp's gcd will not go below 1.5s (effectively making him not scale with haste very well). Even beyond that however there are factors like reaction time, latency and gear setup that further modify the value of each stat.

All things accounted for, the current stat value suggestions should work pretty well for the typical reader- where as more advanced readers will likely want to simulate their own character in their relevant gear setup- readers who do opt to use the current suggestions should find no real significant loss in DPS either way.

Additionally something I did not mention in that response, there's the fact that as of cataclysm part of the benefit from haste comes in steps; for example (and these numbers are really meant as no more than an example): From 0 to 9% haste, immolate will tick 5 times- as of 10% haste immolate will tick 6 times. This creates a fairly significant rise in the value of haste at that specific point. Because of this, it is a *really* bad idea to look at the scale factors of a gear profile that isn't yours, and assume that the same scale factors would be accurate for yourself- it may generally be close to true for crit, mastery and intellect- to do so for haste is very bad.

Saufsoldat · 10/17/10, 2:14 AM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Additionally something I did not mention in that response, there's the fact that as of cataclysm part of the benefit from haste comes in steps; for example (and these numbers are really meant as no more than an example): From 0 to 9% haste, immolate will tick 5 times- as of 10% haste immolate will tick 6 times. This creates a fairly significant rise in the value of haste at that specific point. Because of this, it is a *really* bad idea to look at the scale factors of a gear profile that isn't yours, and assume that the same scale factors would be accurate for yourself- it may generally be close to true for crit, mastery and intellect- to do so for haste is very bad.

I thought this was not an issue since we don't let dots run their full duration anymore, but rather refresh them shortly before they fall off.

Warlocomotif · 10/17/10, 2:33 AM

Originally Posted by Saufsoldat

I thought this was not an issue since we don't let dots run their full duration anymore, but rather refresh them shortly before they fall off.

At 9% haste that would mean refreshing immolate between 11.01s and 13.76s, at 10% that would mean between 13.64s and 16.36s, that's almost casting it 25% more frequently at 9%. Also in terms of damage it certainly matters for Conflagrate.

Melbin2000 · 10/17/10, 2:55 AM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Demonology (Cremation):
The way dot haste works (To the best of my understanding), is as follows: The server takes the time it takes between each tick (ie: 3 seconds), reduces that with haste, and then takes the full (normal) duration of the dot, divides it by the hasted tick speed, and then rounds the outcome to determine the number of ticks the dot will have. For example, immolate at 10% haste: 15/(3/1.1)=5.5, that is rounded to 6 and so immolate gets 6% haste. However at 9% haste, it's: 15/(1/1.09)=5.45, and so it's rounded to 5, the duration now (due to the hasted speed) becomes 13.8s. Because Hand of Gul'dan has a 12 second cooldown and 2 second cast time (before haste) it can at certain specific haste values become very difficult (or even impossible) to correctly refresh immolate using just Hand of Gul'dan. The best thing you can do is just make sure you're at a haste value where this doesn't happen and hope for blizzard to fix this issue shortly.

Assuming Blizzard does not fix this, anyone have any idea for what this optimal haste value would be? I'm sitting at 976 Haste, and though there is enough time to cast Hand of Gul'dan before Immolate falls off, I'm finding that I have to time it really well (to the point of waiting a second of doing nothing waiting for Hand of Gul'dan's cooldown to finish).

faight · 10/17/10, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by Melbin2000

Assuming Blizzard does not fix this, anyone have any idea for what this optimal haste value would be? I'm sitting at 976 Haste, and though there is enough time to cast Hand of Gul'dan before Immolate falls off, I'm finding that I have to time it really well (to the point of waiting a second of doing nothing waiting for Hand of Gul'dan's cooldown to finish).

I did some quick spreadsheet math and it looks like between 8.3-9.9% haste it's impossible to keep up Immolate with Hand of Guldan. The next trouble spot starts at 23% haste, where the time between the end of the HoG cast and the end of the Immolate debuff comes down to less than 1s. Between 23% and 29% it shrinks, and when you hit 29.9% haste there is roughly a .3s window between the end of the HoG cast and the end of the Immolate debuff. Once you get to 30% it jumps back up to a 2.6s window. Between lag and other spell casts, and if there is any sort of travel time on HoG it might actually be impossible to keep it refreshed betwee 29.0 and 29.9% haste. As it stands as you approach 29% haste you'll probably find yourself trying to decide whether you can cast another Incinerate/etc or if you should wait a second and cast HoG as it comes off of cooldown.

So basically you want to be low 20%, or over 30%. Steer clear 8-9%, and of the mid to late 20's.

I will also point out that the late 40's is also a bad area to be in, but it never dips below .6s between the end of HoG and the end of Immolate.

That said if you can hit 50% haste you're golden.

Warlocomotif · 10/17/10, 3:21 AM

Just to clarify, I suspect the above posted means those haste values before accounting for wrath of air (5%), is that correct?