Yes, I was just doing base numbers (1.01 through 50%, incremented haste .01 each time). I didn't account for Wrath of Air; does it affect haste differently, or is it just statically added on top of your haste value (10%+5% = 15% haste)?

Okay wow, adding in Wrath of Air changes things greatly.

With Wrath of Air here are the haste areas you want to avoid:


1.5%-4.7% (impossible to refresh HoG after the first refresh)

15%-23% Time between HoG cast ending and Immolate Debuff ending: .9s starting at 15% - .1s at 23.8%

(oddly enough when you hit 23.81% it jumps back up to 2.45s between HoG cast ending and Immolate debuff ending)

37%-42% .9 - .5

So if my math is right, without Wrath of Air you need to be under 23 or over 30% haste, and if you have Wrath of Air you want to be under 15% or over 23%. To convert that to rating:

Bad: 491 - 780 (might actually be impossible to refresh with 750-780 haste)
Good: 781 - 1233
Mediocre to Bad: 1234 - 1405 (gets worse closer to 1405)
Good: 1405.3+

Literally once you hit 1405.3 rating with Wrath of Air everything becomes peachy.

This is, of course, assuming the formula you posted under the notes section regarding Immolate/HoG is correct.

Edit: Faight posted a lot of this info while I was typing this post. Note to self: don't take a break to cook food while typing a long post
There is not an optimal amount of haste so much as particular thresholds for Demo locks to avoid. The first, as Warlocomotif mentioned, is at 10% haste. If you have 9.99% haste, your Immolate will last 13.64 sec, which can make it difficult or impossible to refresh with HoG. This first threshold is the most dangerous because the subsequent thresholds offer lower variance between Immolate's base duration (15s) and it's actual duration. Here is a list of the thresholds to avoid as Demo locks. Note that you are safe if your haste is equal to or greater than one of these thresholds, but you should try to gain (or possibly lose) haste if your haste is slightly lower than any of these numbers:

Without 5% Haste Buff (No Shammy, Moonkin, or Shadow Priest)

Haste Rating	Haste from Gear
328	10%
984	30%
1640	50%

With 5% Haste Buff (Shammy, Moonkin, and/or Shadow Priest)

Haste Rating	Haste from Gear
157	4.77%
781	23.81%
1406	42.86%

For Destro there is no danger in having any particular amount of haste, but you do get a dps boost for each of these thresholds that you meet, both from Conflag damage and from Immo uptime. Note that the thresholds are lowered when Improved Soul Fire is active. Fun Fact: The amount of haste rating required to meet the fourth threshold with 5% haste buff and Improved Soul Fire active is 1337. (I'm completely serious!)

The macros people are posting will hide the red message that pops up on your screen. Your character's annoying complaints can be silenced by disabling "error speech" in the game options.

I have some issues regarding how to socket my gear these days..

Is there any post/thread somewhere here which I haven't found who deals with this topic? For instance, when to grab your socket bonus and not. 20 int vs 10 int + 10 haste when the bonus is 5 spell power i.ex..

You'd need 2030 haste from gear to get a 9th tick.

Aha! So I guess it's int all the way then.

It always did about 2% total damage for destro/mages/moonkins. Scaling with talents is nice though.

Here is what I have been using for my shadowbolt spam macro

/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Blood Fury()
/use Demonic Empowerment
/cast Shadow Bolt
#/petattack [target=crus]
/cast [target=hoeding] Devour Magic
/cast Cleave
/cast Firebolt
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1


This macro disables sound effects, does your spells, clears the error message that shows up on your screen and then reenables sound. It also spams pet abilities for you. (3.3.5 abilities anyways )

There is no longer any need to spam Demonic Empowerment in PvE because it doesn't provide a dps increase, in fact it's arguably not worth speccing into. On fights like Putricide it's sometimes better to have your pet attack a different target than yourself, so it might be better to keybind Pet Attack than to macro it to your spam spell. Cleave is used on CD and doesn't need to be macroed. Firebolt can still benefit from the macro if your imp's cast time is >1.5 sec, though you might want to add in [@pettarget] so he doesn't necesarily have to be attacking your current target. Devour Magic can no longer cleanse friendly targets, only purge enemy targets, and I assume the Felhunter will do it automatically if the target has a dispellable buff.
Edit:: Also, spamming a macro with "/petattack" in it will cause your Imp to repeatedly cancel his Firebolts, therefore doing no damage.

Nothing is sure since simcraft is still in dev and may not reflect the exact behavior of the patch. However, be aware that it's not reallly relevant to compare glyph during a single raid. The error margin due to RG, raid composition, fight is higher than the dps bring by the glyph. This means you can't say if the difference of dps is related to your glyph change or due to more crit/pro,action done by your mate, fight difference,...
The only way to reduce this "noise" is to do the test a lot of time in the same situation and then compute an average which is what simcraft does.