4.0 Pre-Cataclysm Raiding - Page 14

matornot · 10/18/10, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by thetrueavatar

Nothing is sure since simcraft is still in dev and may not reflect the exact behavior of the patch. However, be aware that it's not reallly relevant to compare glyph during a single raid. The error margin due to RG, raid composition, fight is higher than the dps bring by the glyph. This means you can't say if the difference of dps is related to your glyph change or due to more crit/pro,action done by your mate, fight difference,...
The only way to reduce this "noise" is to do the test a lot of time in the same situation and then compute an average which is what simcraft does.

This is exactly right. If you want to exclude simcraft from your glyph decisions, there is a somewhat accurate way to test these two particular glyphs on a dummy. First do a fight with neither glyph, then look at your recount damage done. If your Incinerate damage is double that of your Immolate (DoT) plus Conflagrate damage, then the 10% Immo DoT glyph is better than the 5% Incinerate glyph. On a dummy my Incinerates do about 35% of my damage, followed by Conflagrate at 18% and Immolate (DoT) at 14%. 2*(18+14) < 35 , so Glyph of Immolate is provides almost twice as much DPS as Glyph of Incinerate.

hoeding · 10/18/10, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by matornot

There is no longer any need to spam Demonic Empowerment in PvE because it doesn't provide a dps increase, in fact it's arguably not worth speccing into. On fights like Putricide it's sometimes better to have your pet attack a different target than yourself, so it might be better to keybind Pet Attack than to macro it to your spam spell. Cleave is used on CD and doesn't need to be macroed. Firebolt can still benefit from the macro if your imp's cast time is >1.5 sec, though you might want to add in [@pettarget] so he doesn't necesarily have to be attacking your current target. Devour Magic can no longer cleanse friendly targets, only purge enemy targets, and I assume the Felhunter will do it automatically if the target has a dispellable buff.
Edit:: Also, spamming a macro with "/petattack" in it will cause your Imp to repeatedly cancel his Firebolts, therefore doing no damage.

I think you overlooked the part where I said the macro was still using 3.3.5 abilities, they were mainly left in there as an example because order is important in the error clearing part of the macro.

Xavar · 10/18/10, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gimply

One aspect of raiding that hasn't been mentioned much (or I couldn't find it) is AOE damage.
Which spell does the best AOE dps for each of Aff/Demo/Destro?

In particular, the vile spirits achievement on LK is always a good test.
The lack of range on hellfire for demo 'locks is a problem too.

Thoughts?

I was not having any range issues with Hellfire in ICC last week. I was able to dps Vile Spirits fine, in fact, it was very nice to be able to AoE while running.

For comparison, we had an afflic lock using Seed and I used Hellfire exclusively and our AoE was pretty much the same. Of course, when I had Immo Aura ready to go, I blew everyone away.

Tehehe · 10/19/10, 7:43 PM

If anyone uses EventHorizon, here is my current configuration for destruction raiding only. Read through the comments to see what bars are displayed - but it is basically the destruction priority from top to bottom. Some bars are combined (e.g., Immolate & Conflagrate).

https://gist.github.com/356e701a9860...e_myconfig.lua

To use it, put the file (named myconfig.lua) in your EventHorizon_Warlock addon directory.

Altermoon · 10/19/10, 8:10 PM

Why 3 in Dark Arts ? (Destro spec)
Imp gcd cannot be less than 1.5 sec, or no?

I mean with 2 Dark Arts Imp will cast exactly as 3. Explain please.

rei-gouki · 10/19/10, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Someone stated that using this macro had no effect for him, I finally got around to testing it out, and I've found out why... It looks like the imp's GCD is not scaling with haste as it should. With the fire bolt's cast time at 1.26s, the imp has a noticeable time between his casts, and I can not somehow make that pause go away. When I spec to affliction and use the imp (No Dark arts talent) his cast time becomes 1.8s, and I can make him chaincast flawlessly.

I'll post a bug report on this and hope it gets fixed.

Just some additional information in case others try to check this for themselves in the hopes Blizz fixed it.

I'm operating at 280-300ms latency is case that's important.

The cast time stated in the tooltip for Imp's Firebolt is 1.3s in Destro, 3/3 Dark Arts, and 1.48s in Aff 2/3 Dark Arts. In both cases, I used Recount to monitor activity time and number of casts. I was unable to reduce the cast frequency to below 1.6s in either case even with /use Firebolt macroed.

I respecced Aff to 0/3 Dark Arts and the Imp's Firebolt cast time became 1.86s. On its own, he had a cast frequency of every 2.43s over 140s. I tested again with the /use Firebolt macro and got 2.04s over 100s, so it appears to still be important to have the macro.

I also used Quartz to monitor the Firebolt casts and the GCD swirl over the Firebolt button clearly finishes before the cast does in all cases.

wrt Improved Soulfire's >80% limit removal, just checked and no, it's not active on live. And the SP nerf mentioned, it appears to have brought it just under our standard rotation with Incinerate filler in DPS and probably still has the <50% condition as stated in the tooltip for the +20% rather than the <25% on PTR given the state of Improved Soulfire. Do note that the margin appears to be fairly slim so you can expect that the SP filler outside of Backdraft will still decently out threat it for any tanking applications you may find yourself in.

xeonoex · 10/19/10, 10:41 PM

So it seems that by far the best way to AoE as destro is to just tab Immolate everything. It beats rain and seed by far from what I've tried.

Has anyone else found a better aoe rotation?

meddie · 10/20/10, 4:18 AM

noticing that improved soul fire does not reapply the buff if you cast soul fire while improved soulfire is already up.
If I get an empowered imp proc and my imp soulfire buff is still active. given that I have 8 secs to use the proc is it worth waiting for the current imp soulfire buff to drop before I use the proc or should I use the proc instantly in the hope of another.
Wondering if there is a cut off point when it becomes more efficient to wait for the imp soulfire to drop before using the proc

xeonoex · 10/20/10, 4:19 AM

Originally Posted by WereCatf

I have only noticed that I get much better dps by just single-targeting everything. AoE on 4 mobs results in about 6.7k dps if I remember correctly whereas single-target is 10k. Thus atleast for me it seems much better use of my time to just single-target nuking everything down.

That was pretty much what I realized when I figured out just to tab Immolate. My 6+ target dps was lower than my single target dps, so I figured it would just be better to spam my highest DPCT spell on as many mobs as possible.

My single target is in the low 20k, my seed was about 16k, and my rain of fire was about 14k IIRC, but tab Immolate is in the high 20k range.

Seems like they nerfed AoE way too hard.

Warlocomotif · 10/20/10, 7:49 AM

OP updated.

Also, please read what's already been posted before you ask questions about the new scale factor for haste in the simulationcraft thread.

Saufsoldat · 10/20/10, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by meddie

noticing that improved soul fire does not reapply the buff if you cast soul fire while improved soulfire is already up.
If I get an empowered imp proc and my imp soulfire buff is still active. given that I have 8 secs to use the proc is it worth waiting for the current imp soulfire buff to drop before I use the proc or should I use the proc instantly in the hope of another.
Wondering if there is a cut off point when it becomes more efficient to wait for the imp soulfire to drop before using the proc

The tooltip of the talent states that Improved Soul Fire has a 15sec cd, that should answer your question.

Asthor · 10/20/10, 1:02 PM

Did some calculating for haste needed to make Dark Arts points optional due to the imp gcd bug.

Haste rating needed for 1.5 sec firebolt with Mind Quickening

Haste rating	Dark Arts points
1925	0
1405	1
885	2
364	3

With the haste rating above along with the talent points in Dark Arts associated with it, the imp has the closest cast time to 1.5 as possible.

Emidi · 10/20/10, 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by Asthor

Did some calculating for haste needed to make Dark Arts points optional due to the imp gcd bug.

Haste rating needed for 1.5 sec firebolt with Wrath of Air totem

Haste rating	Dark Arts points
1925	0
1405	1
885	2
364	3

With the haste rating above along with the talent points in Dark Arts associated with it, the imp has the closest cast time to 1.5 as possible.

i tested the castspeed of the imp at a dummie with a moonkin in grp. with 1410 haste and 1/3 in dark arts the casttime was 1,6 sec and only with 2/3 in dark arts it was 1,4. did i disregard something?

• Zakalwe · 10/20/10, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Emidi

i tested the castspeed of the imp at a dummie with a moonkin in grp. with 1410 haste and 1/3 in dark arts the casttime was 1,6 sec and only with 2/3 in dark arts it was 1,4. did i disregard something?

Our pets don't actually benefit from moonkin aura or wrath of air totem. They do benefit from mind quickening, though, so the above numbers are true in any raid with a shadow priest.

angaroth · 10/20/10, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by Emidi

i tested the castspeed of the imp at a dummie with a moonkin in grp. with 1410 haste and 1/3 in dark arts the casttime was 1,6 sec and only with 2/3 in dark arts it was 1,4. did i disregard something?

Can you post a log of this? The tooltip is saying one thing, but the actual result is different, at least for most of us.