Demonology in Cataclysm (4.3 Release) - Page 13

Jmickey · 06/28/11, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by angaroth

The OP lists a belt, [Cinch of the Flaming Ember], as an alternate to the [Reckless Ember Topaz] in a yellow gem slot. Which would be cool but would require some pretty intricate origami.

Spelling mistake that caused the link to go completely off the rails. Fixed.

Admired · 07/01/11, 1:39 AM

Corruption

Extra Ticks % Rating Goblin
1 8.3% 21 0
2 25% 1993 1846
3 41.7% 3970 3804
4 58.4% 5945 5745

I went for the 1993 Haste while in a raid group with DI.
I was unable to achieve 25%. In face, I had 1994 but had 24.99% Haste.
Obviously, it could be rounded up, but 24.99 =/= 25
1995 should suffice. Perhaps your numbers could change?

Yukela · 07/01/11, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Admired

I went for the 1993 Haste while in a raid group with DI.
I was unable to achieve 25%. In face, I had 1994 but had 24.99% Haste.
Obviously, it could be rounded up, but 24.99 =/= 25
1995 should suffice. Perhaps your numbers could change?

You achieve 25% wtih 1993 rating with DI + Wrath/Mind quickening i believe?

Admired · 07/02/11, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Yukela

You achieve 25% wtih 1993 rating with DI + Wrath/Mind quickening i believe?

Oh, I'm still off by like 1 point.
You need 1996 apparently to get 25.00%
1993 still doesn't work, you'll get 24.98 or so.

Keldion · 07/02/11, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Admired

Oh, I'm still off by like 1 point.
You need 1996 apparently to get 25.00%
1993 still doesn't work, you'll get 24.98 or so.

24.98% haste is enough for 8 ticks. The thresholds in the OP are based on my spreadsheet and were rounded to the third decimal place.

daia · 07/02/11, 8:17 PM

From my tests, the Doomguard gains about 3 average damage per Doom Bolt hit per mastery point when the snapshot is taken. This is not including the chance to crit, or Mastery: Master Demonologist.

The snapshot takes into account SP, mastery, haste, and crit. ToTT did not add more damage. .Bloodlust did not add more casts.

Signorina · 07/06/11, 4:47 AM

As 4.2 we still start the fight with felguard and swap to felhunter. But if it is a target swapping fight or air phase fight then glyphed sucubbus is superior. Can someone please advise if this the situation according to your real time raid experiences.

Since we are able to access items with higher stats, Is it logical to keep haste at 1993 and reforge/gem everything to mastery or should we aim for a higher haste cap?

Yukela · 07/06/11, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Signorina

As 4.2 we still start the fight with felguard and swap to felhunter. But if it is a target swapping fight or air phase fight then glyphed sucubbus is superior. Can someone please advise if this the situation according to your real time raid experiences.

Since we are able to access items with higher stats, Is it logical to keep haste at 1993 and reforge/gem everything to mastery or should we aim for a higher haste cap?

I made a BiS profile Profiler - Wowhead (most likely trinkets are not optimal) and while keeping the previous stat priorities i got down to 2247 haste and the next immolate tick being at 3264, so yeah staying as close to =>1993 and going for mastery is still optimal.

VoidStar · 07/07/11, 3:22 AM

Originally Posted by Yukela

I made a BiS profile Profiler - Wowhead (most likely trinkets are not optimal) and while keeping the previous stat priorities i got down to 2247 haste and the next immolate tick being at 3264, so yeah staying as close to =>1993 and going for mastery is still optimal.

I don't want it to seem like I'm harping on about the same subject all the time, but the Immolate haste thresholds are completely meaningless for single-target Demo. In fact, single-target Demo cares only about the Haste thresholds for Corruption and Shadowflame, the ninth and fifth ticks (respectively) of which are both very far out of current reach.

Yes, for multi-DoTting situations the haste thresholds for Immolate (and Agony) do have an impact, but hardly one worth bending our gearing out of shape to try and achieve.

Rained · 07/08/11, 5:44 AM

I've read through the posts and can't seem to find an answer, my question is what indeed is the optimal opener? Demon Soul with Felguard or Felhunter? If Felguard do I use felstorm and then soulburn switch back to Felhunter, or dont even bother with felstorm?

Drainar · 07/14/11, 11:18 AM

Jmickey, I looked you up on the armory, and in your demo spec, you're using Glypf of Corruption instead of Glyph of Incinerate, is this just personal preference or is it a dps increase in some encounters?

Drainar · 07/14/11, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tokens

It seems that SimCraft indeed is calculating Doomguard DPS wrong. It has a casttime of 3 seconds regardless of haste, which is (1.08 * 60 sec) / 3 = 21 casts which usually is the case for demo. Obviously fewer casts as destro and affliction. The demonology BIS profile calculate it at a ~2 sec cast time, which is not possible.

In demonology you'll get 20 extra seconds to your guardians, which would mean they are up 65 seconds and not 60 seconds. The calculation with haste included would be: (1.08*65)/3 = 23 casts instead of 21. Without haste: (1.0*60)/3 = 21 casts.

So either you made a mistake or I read it wrong, then my excuses.

Meegosh · 07/14/11, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rained

I've read through the posts and can't seem to find an answer, my question is what indeed is the optimal opener? Demon Soul with Felguard or Felhunter? If Felguard do I use felstorm and then soulburn switch back to Felhunter, or dont even bother with felstorm?

Optimal opener (as of now) :

X sec before pull : equipping your mastery focused gear
~5-6s before pull : preburning
~1-2s before pull : using moonwell chalice (when available) -> meta -> equipping normal gear
pull : curse of elements (if you have to) -> demon soul + felstorm -> other spells
at the end of your felguard's felstorm (or near the end) and before your soulburn wears off : pop felhunter.

Originally Posted by Drainar

Jmickey, I looked you up on the armory, and in your demo spec, you're using Glypf of Corruption instead of Glyph of Incinerate, is this just personal preference or is it a dps increase in some encounters?

It is a dps increase on most encounters, the front page must not be up to date.

Originally Posted by Drainar

In demonology you'll get 20 extra seconds to your guardians, which would mean they are up 65 seconds and not 60 seconds. The calculation with haste included would be: (1.08*65)/3 = 23 casts instead of 21. Without haste: (1.0*60)/3 = 21 casts.

So either you made a mistake or I read it wrong, then my excuses.

He had allready considered the 20 extra seconds in the 1.08*60 (the tooltip of the spell states 1.08 min), which indeed means 65s, over 45s for other specs.

Eph · 07/14/11, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by Meegosh

Optimal opener (as of now) :
pull : curse of elements (if you have to) -> demon soul + felstorm -> other spells

For the "other spells" I have simulated Immolation Aura and Hand of Gul'dan as the ideal first spells when using the pre-felguard method.

Also it should be mentioned again (yours and other's original math and gear setups here) that you need a significant amount of additional mastery (near 2800 total according to those posts) to outweigh the lost dps from a pre-combat Metamorphosis.

Meegosh · 07/15/11, 8:38 AM

Originally Posted by Eph

Also it should be mentioned again (yours and other's original math and gear setups here) that you need a significant amount of additional mastery (near 2800 total according to those posts) to outweigh the lost dps from a pre-combat Metamorphosis.

Not totally true, that 2800 number was just taken randomly to show that it worked.
Everyone should compute what mastery they need on their alternate gear following that formula :

M1 = 179.28 * 50 * ( -1.36 - ( 1 / 17 ) + (36 / 34) * (1.36 + 0.02 * M2/179.28))

With :

M2 : Your normal gear's mastery
M1 : Your mastery focused gear's mastery

For instance; I have a 1669 mastery normal gear, so I need at least 1958 mastery on my alternate gear for it to be a dps gain. I have a 3108 mastery alternate gear, so I should gain quite a lot (an estimation for those who never took the time to gather such a gear : 3108-1958 = 1150, 1150/179.28*2 = 12.83 => I gain 12.83% damage for 34s - The damage being lost allready being taken into account - )