Demonology in Cataclysm (4.3 Release) - Page 2

wormskull · 12/13/10, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by nehcnhoj

Nice to see the solid numbers behind it, appreciate it. Surprised to know that SB spam is even higher than averaged out Incinerate + MC'd Incinerate.

That aside, I was thinking, about how Crit & Mastery scale with haste. I doubt either of these stats will ever topple haste as the top priority at whatever gear levels (T12 and beyond). My point is, crit should be a linear scale proportionate to haste, mastery on the other hand, might be slightly exponential? My brain is telling me i'm flipped and my mental maths is wrong, anyone have better insight? (This whole stems from the fact that Demo is very much a multiplier's game it really gets quite complex when you factor in the fact that mastery increases the multiplier effect that demo gets from stacking CDs/Procs).

What i'm trying to say is, will haste ever reach a point where Mastery > Crit as the 3rd priority (after hit & haste). Of course this does not affect gemming / enchanting / reforging due to haste still being the 2nd best, It might affect gear choices though, "that 3rd stat that just happens to be on that piece of gear" etc etc.

Thoughts?

My interest in this is probably more practical than theoretical, and five minutes of nuking Patchwerk doesn't really figure in my current plans. I think it would take "a lot" to get mastery competitive with crit against ol' patchy, but think there are any number of possible fight mechanics that lend themselves to periodic burn phases where mastery *might* be one of our best stats. It's beating my ability to model, and going to be hugely determined by environment, but I'm not sold on the idea that we should discount mastery for real-raid gearing to quite the extent the OP suggests.

On a similar note, logs from ICC show that changes to fight mechanics determine the relative value of glyph of incinerate vs glyph of felguard. For single target fights with little movement, Incinerate wins hands down, but once you factor in adds, movement or direct-dps inhibitors (e.g. unchained magic) there are a number of fights where the glyph of felguard becomes way better. I'm expecting this to be the case throughout Cata too, and plan on reglyphing between fights accordingly, which I believe is a more sensible course than a blanket dismissal of the glyph because it's not optimal against a certain abomination...

VoidStar · 12/14/10, 3:42 AM

Originally Posted by wormskull

On a similar note, logs from ICC show that changes to fight mechanics determine the relative value of glyph of incinerate vs glyph of felguard. For single target fights with little movement, Incinerate wins hands down, but once you factor in adds, movement or direct-dps inhibitors (e.g. unchained magic) there are a number of fights where the glyph of felguard becomes way better. I'm expecting this to be the case throughout Cata too, and plan on reglyphing between fights accordingly, which I believe is a more sensible course than a blanket dismissal of the glyph because it's not optimal against a certain abomination...

I may be mis-reading you, but I'm not sure why you feel that adds might make the Glyph of Felguard better compared to Glyph of Incinerate, in fact they should make it worse. The damage of Legion Strike is split between its targets, so adding more targets makes absolutely no difference to the total damage it does, indeed it makes it somewhat worse when trying to burn down a single target in a group, while having multiple Immolates up gives you more Molten Core procs and thus a greater number of empowered Incinerates.

I've found that the deciding factor about which glyph is better is whether or not I manage to use all the Incinerate procs: as it's more or less "filler" it's one of the things that gets left out if other stuff is going on, wheras my Felguard manages to use Legion Strike on cooldown very successfully ;-)

Jmickey · 12/14/10, 4:41 AM

Originally Posted by wormskull

My interest in this is probably more practical than theoretical, and five minutes of nuking Patchwerk doesn't really figure in my current plans. I think it would take "a lot" to get mastery competitive with crit against ol' patchy, but think there are any number of possible fight mechanics that lend themselves to periodic burn phases where mastery *might* be one of our best stats. It's beating my ability to model, and going to be hugely determined by environment, but I'm not sold on the idea that we should discount mastery for real-raid gearing to quite the extent the OP suggests.

On a similar note, logs from ICC show that changes to fight mechanics determine the relative value of glyph of incinerate vs glyph of felguard. For single target fights with little movement, Incinerate wins hands down, but once you factor in adds, movement or direct-dps inhibitors (e.g. unchained magic) there are a number of fights where the glyph of felguard becomes way better. I'm expecting this to be the case throughout Cata too, and plan on reglyphing between fights accordingly, which I believe is a more sensible course than a blanket dismissal of the glyph because it's not optimal against a certain abomination...

The scenario you speak of in your first paragraph would be rare, however, if there are fights like that in Cataclysm raid content it's unlikely they will be often enough to reforge on a fight by fight basis, not to mention the annoyance this will have on your raid team as you spend 10-15 minutes doing it while they wait.

I think you dismiss how little of an increase the Felguard glyph brings. Legion Strike contributes ~16% of the Felguards total damage throughout a fight, this is maybe 2.5% of out total damage done (possibly less). Incinerate is closer to about 6% (over 5 minutes). It is very rare you will miss an Incinerate proc, you would need to be unable to cast for ~12 seconds for any of the buff to be wasted (provided the buff is not overridden by another proc.

I would be happy to re-assess this if/when a fight comes along that shows evidence, through logs, that Felguard > Incinerate, and when that time does come, I will be sure to begin incorporating a section into the OP that will detail which fights you should glyph swap for. Without any actual evidence however, then further discussion would simply be hearsay.

wormskull · 12/14/10, 7:46 AM

I may be mis-reading you, but I'm not sure why you feel that adds might make the Glyph of Felguard better compared to Glyph of Incinerate, in fact they should make it worse. The damage of Legion Strike is split between its targets, so adding more targets makes absolutely no difference to the total damage it does, indeed it makes it somewhat worse when trying to burn down a single target in a group

This is certainly implied by the tooltip, but it's not what I'm seeing happen. I've got no logs since cata, but this one from post 4.03a shows that while LS damage is reduced, it seems that only a portion of the damage is. Possibly the base weapon damage is applied to every target while only the bonus damage is split?

A couple of examples with a single target:

[23:39:18.814] The Lich King afflicted by Legion Strike from Thootom
[23:39:18.814] Thootom Legion Strike The Lich King *6656* (O: -1)
[23:39:24.794] The Lich King's Legion Strike fades

[23:40:22.617] The Lich King afflicted by Legion Strike from Thootom
[23:40:22.617] Thootom Legion Strike The Lich King 3298 (O: -1)
[23:40:28.628] The Lich King's Legion Strike fades

And with multiple targets:

[23:40:48.351] Shambling Horror afflicted by Legion Strike from Thootom
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Shambling Horror 1652 (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul *3580* (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul *3461* (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul *3936* (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul 2053 (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul 1766 (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Drudge Ghoul 1737 (O: -1)
[23:40:48.440] Thootom Legion Strike Shambling Horror 1977 (O: -1)
[23:40:53.710] Shambling Horror's Legion Strike fades

[23:42:17.091] Raging Spirit afflicted by Legion Strike from Thootom
[23:42:17.091] Thootom Legion Strike Val'kyr Shadowguard 2199 (O: -1)
[23:42:17.091] Thootom Legion Strike The Lich King 2219 (O: -1)
[23:42:17.091] Thootom Legion Strike Raging Spirit *3886* (O: -1)

Whatever is happening, it's not a simple division of damage.

I would be happy to re-assess this if/when a fight comes along that shows evidence, through logs, that Felguard > Incinerate, and when that time does come, I will be sure to begin incorporating a section into the OP that will detail which fights you should glyph swap for. Without any actual evidence however, then further discussion would simply be hearsay.

I noticed this when looking at logs for LK10.

My own log (this also happens to be the one with the best Incinerate damage, but the others are likely to drop off WOL soon)

1st in rankings.

2nd in rankings (LS doing almost twice the damage of incin here).

While it's not universal, it certainly seems to be a reasonably common occurrence - enough to make me check for it in future logs and reglyph if I see the same pattern again.

arhmudo · 12/14/10, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by Saufsoldat

If you can time them perfectly, that's good, but usually it doesn't matter if you cast an Incinerate with 1.5s instead of 1.3s cast time every now and then. What's important is that you don't recast any dots while the buff is down, as they will then have the reduced haste for the entire duration, resulting in quite a substantial dmg loss (=one less tick).

I agree that it wouldn't be ideal to recast a dot if the buff is inactive, but I'm not sure what you said is entirely accurate. If damage over time spells are now calculated on each tick, then how why would they have reduced haste for the "entire duration"? Wouldn't the DPS loss apply only for the duration when the Improved Soul Fire buff is not active?

Jmickey · 12/14/10, 8:49 AM

Those logs are certainly quite interesting Wormskull. I am looking forward to seeing some come Cataclysm raiding. I will be sure to keep a close eye on this myself.

Originally Posted by arhmudo

I agree that it wouldn't be ideal to recast a dot if the buff is inactive, but I'm not sure what you said is entirely accurate. If damage over time spells are now calculated on each tick, then how why would they have reduced haste for the "entire duration"? Wouldn't the DPS loss apply only for the duration when the Improved Soul Fire buff is not active?

Your assuming the game updates the DoT every tick, which is not the case. When you cast the DoT the haste and crit values are snap shotted (this may also be true for int/sp), and the values do not update until the DoT is refreshed, either through Haunt (for afflic)/HoG/Physical refreshing.

zandelar · 12/15/10, 5:16 AM

One thing you may have missed, and does lots of extra damage and consumes no GCD. Try to time your fel guards Fel Storm ability with your applications of Hand of guldan. Especially if you have more mastery than normal, might help pick up the slack in that elusive haste stat in the starting raid gear.

VoidStar · 12/15/10, 6:56 AM

As long as the targets are standing in the crit aura (which you can maintain with near 100% uptime as the aura lasts 15 seconds and the cooldown on HoGd is 12) there's no need to align your Felstorm casts with your HoGd casts: it's better to use it on cooldown.

Snifu · 12/15/10, 4:56 PM

I have a small question. I know that the talent build in the OP is the optimal personal DPS build and that it assumes that you are fully raid buffs and the enemy are fully raid debuffed.

My question is if you are the only one in your raid who can apply the spell critical strike debuff to the enemy via shadow and flame? Is the 33% chance with one point in the talent enough to ensure decent uptime? If not, what talent would you take points out of (I assume bane), and would you take one or two points out? It seems to me that a 66% chance to apply the debuff would be enough to keep the debuff up without having to ignore molten core procs to keep the debuff up. But that's more of a gut feeling than anything backed up by math.

blasfem · 12/16/10, 5:16 PM

Question regarding use of Incenerate as nuke vs. Shadowbolt.
Is it possible for Inninerate to be overall dps increase considering these factors:

You can spec 3/3 Shadow and Flame - a 8% dps increase to Incinerate

Even with 3/3 bane. Incinerate is at least 10% faster cast than SB, theoretically that's 10% or more off Meta couldown

Just wondering the actual sim numbers on

3/3 Bane - 1/3 Shadow and Flame (SB nuke)
vs
1/3 Bane - 3/3 Shadow and Flame (Incin nuke)

Also, if going the latter route, you might be able to forgo Bane entirely and just point a point into Life Tap
to partially make up for the mana differential on Incin and SB

~Thalia~ · 12/16/10, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by blasfem

Question regarding use of Incenerate as nuke vs. Shadowbolt.
Is it possible for Inninerate to be overall dps increase considering these factors:

You can spec 3/3 Shadow and Flame - a 8% dps increase to Incinerate

Even with 3/3 bane. Incinerate is at least 10% faster cast than SB, theoretically that's 10% or more off Meta couldown

Just wondering the actual sim numbers on

3/3 Bane - 1/3 Shadow and Flame (SB nuke)
vs
1/3 Bane - 3/3 Shadow and Flame (Incin nuke)

Also, if going the latter route, you might be able to forgo Bane entirely and just point a point into Life Tap
to partially make up for the mana differential on Incin and SB

You're overlooking the base spell coefficients, SB scaling better with gear than Incinerate due to its longer cast time.
That and the fact that if you're using Incinerate as a filler, you're essentially wasting 1 MC proc out of 3, because if you're casting Incinerate when MC procs, the cast time isn't updated while you're still consuming a stack.

SB is intended to be Demonology's filler.

Edit : I did simulated the talent builds you suggested. Here are the results (using my toon and gear)

SB is the standard profile.
Inc is using Bane 1/3 and S&F 3/3
IncNoBane is using S&F 3/3 and Imp LT 1/2

DPS Ranking:
  52690 100.0%  Raid
  17771  33.7%  thali�*_SB
  17509  33.2%  thali�*_Inc
  17454  33.1%  thali�*_IncNoBane

Player: thali�*_Inc gnome warlock demonology 85
  DPS: 17509.1  Error=11.3/0.1%  Range=1602/9.1%  DPR=9.7  RPS-Out=1812.2 RPS-In=1572.2  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=48.2
  Origin: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/marecage-de-zangar/thali%C3%A0/advanced
  Talents: http://fr.wowhead.com/talent#IZfrrf0uMRdosrb
  Core Stats:  strength=640|61(0)  agility=655|75(0)  stamina=5993|4987(4565)  intellect=4182|3574(3229)  spirit=175|175(0)  mastery=13.65|13.65(1013)  health=96924|87874  mana=80380|77576
  Spell Stats:  power=7193|5293(1729)  hit=17.20%|17.20%(1762)  crit=18.54%|12.60%(967)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=18.32%|9.40%(1204)  mp5=1027|1027(0)
  Attack Stats  power=1399|112(0)  hit=14.67%|14.67%(1762)  crit=16.34%|8.40%(967)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  haste=9.40%|9.40%(1204)
  Defense Stats:  armor=7363|7363(7363)  blockv=320|31(0)  miss=4.70%|4.70%  dodge=3.89%|1.98%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: immolate/metamorphosis/incinerate/corruption/fear/soul_link/ritual_of_souls/drain_soul/unending_breath
  Priorities:
    flask,type=draconic_mind/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast/fel_armor
    summon_felguard/dark_intent/snapshot_stats/use_item,name=flamebloom_gloves
    volcanic_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|!in_combat/demon_soul
    hand_of_guldan,if=dot.immolate.remains>(cast_time+travel_time)
    immolate,if=dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time&buff.improved_soul_fire.remains>cast_time&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    soulburn,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.bloodlust.down
    soul_fire,if=buff.improved_soul_fire.cooldown_remains<(cast_time+travel_time)&buff.bloodlust.down&!in_flight
    metamorphosis
    immolate,if=(dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    bane_of_doom,if=(remains<3|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react
    immolation,if=buff.metamorphosis.remains>10
    corruption,if=(!ticking|dot.corruption.remains<tick_time)&miss_react/shadowflame
    hand_of_guldan/incinerate,if=buff.molten_core.react
    soul_fire,if=buff.decimation.react/summon_infernal/life_tap,mana_percentage<=35
    incinerate/life_tap
  Actions:
    bane_of_doom        Count=  6.0|49.61sec  DPE= 59094| 7%  DPET= 54987  DPR=  19.2  pDPS=1190  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=19  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=15616|10801|26740  CritTick=32162|22195|54947|18.8%
    corruption          Count= 18.8|16.00sec  DPE= 24087| 9%  DPET= 21826  DPR=  19.5  pDPS=1513  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=135  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=2683|2010|5296  CritTick=5528|4130|10883|23.7%
    hand_of_guldan      Count= 21.2|14.25sec  DPE= 17487| 7%  DPET= 11910  DPR=  12.2  pDPS=1236  Miss=0.00%  Hit=13970|11086|25623  Crit=28803|22780|52651|23.7%
    immolate            Count= 19.7|15.28sec  DPE= 41784|16%  DPET= 29823  DPR=  25.4  pDPS=2742  Miss=0.00%  Hit=4532|3521|8455  Crit= 9320| 7234|17374|23.6%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4072|3121|7671  CritTick=8386|6413|15762|23.7%
    immolation_aura     Count=  3.1|103.78sec  DPE= 72011| 4%  DPET= 66556  DPR=   5.5  pDPS= 750  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=66  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3397|2873|4794
    incinerate          Count= 68.1| 3.93sec  DPE= 11774|15%  DPET=  7813  DPR=   4.1  pDPS=2674  Miss=0.00%  Hit=9417|6936|21188  Crit=19354|14252|43539|23.7%
    infernal_awakening  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 21010| 0%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=  70  Miss=0.00%  Hit=16788|10942|17872  Crit=34403|22485|36724|24.0%
    shadowflame         Count= 20.9|14.34sec  DPE= 19203| 8%  DPET= 17430  DPR=   3.7  pDPS=1337  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2370|1871|4056  Crit= 4879| 3844| 8334|23.6%  TickCount=88  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3088|2278|6010  CritTick=6360|4681|12349|23.7%
    soul_fire           Count= 41.1| 7.38sec  DPE= 14789|12%  DPET=  9625  DPR=   8.0  pDPS=2025  Miss=0.00%  Hit=11825|9087|21214  Crit=24293|18673|43591|23.8%
   felguard  (DPS=2903.3)
    felstorm            Count=  7.0|45.00sec  DPE= 40819|33%  DPET=     1  DPR= 125.0  pDPS= 954  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=49  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4773|4434|6586  CritTick=9472|8868|13173|22.5%
    legion_strike       Count= 50.5| 6.00sec  DPE=  2851|17%  DPET=  1855  DPR=   2.5  pDPS= 480  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2305|2173|3020  Crit= 4614| 4345| 6039|23.6%
    melee               Count=187.2| 1.60sec  DPE=  2351|51%  DPET=  1471  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1469  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1998|1876|2600  Crit= 3995| 3751| 5200|23.7%  Glance=1498|24.0%
   infernal  (DPS=2563.9)
    infernal_immolation  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 55723|29%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 747  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=32  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1741|1600|2417
    infernal_melee      Count= 78.0| 0.82sec  DPE=  1737|71%  DPET=  1045  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1817  Miss=7.99%  Hit=1683|1617|2007  Crit= 3370| 3233| 4013|23.7%  Glance=1263|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%
   ebon_imp  (DPS=453.3)
    ebon_imp_melee      Count=156.8| 0.83sec  DPE=   828|100%  DPET=   498  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 453  Miss=8.05%  Hit= 801| 801| 801  Crit= 1602| 1602| 1602|23.9%  Glance= 601|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_might_regen/dark_intent
  Constant Buffs: dark_intent_feedback/fel_armor/fortitude/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    anhuurs_hymnal         : start=5.5  refresh=0.0   interval= 57.4 trigger=57.4  uptime=18%
    bloodlust              : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit= 1%
    decimation             : start=1.0  refresh=31.0  interval= 56.5 trigger=1.9   uptime=20%  benefit=36%
    demon_soul_felguard    : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=120.7 trigger=120.7 uptime=20%  benefit=25%
    hand_of_guldan         : start=3.8  refresh=17.3  interval= 45.5 trigger=14.3  uptime=98%  benefit=97%
    improved_soul_fire     : start=16.9 refresh=0.0   interval= 18.1 trigger=18.1  uptime=80%  benefit=75%
    metamorphosis          : start=3.1  refresh=0.0   interval=105.3 trigger=105.3 uptime=37%  benefit=51%
    molten_core            : start=7.1  refresh=1.2   interval= 37.4 trigger=31.2  uptime=17%  benefit=30%
    shadow_trance          : start=4.6  refresh=0.8   interval= 53.0 trigger=43.3  uptime=16%
    sorrowsong             : start=4.2  refresh=0.0   interval= 24.2 trigger=24.2  uptime=13%
    soulburn               : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=106.4 trigger=106.4 uptime= 8%  benefit= 6%
    synapse_springs        : start=5.3  refresh=0.0   interval= 60.7 trigger=60.7  uptime=20%
    volcanic_potion        : start=2.0  refresh=0.0   interval=238.3 trigger=238.3 uptime=15%
    felguard-bloodlust     : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit=16%
    infernal-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
    ebon_imp-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : backdraft_0                   
  Procs:
      9.5 |  28.51sec : ebon_imp
     13.3 |  19.47sec : impending_doom
      5.4 |  43.30sec : shadow_trance
  Gains:
     19397.9 : blessing_of_might
     80379.6 : initial_mana     
    328919.0 : life_tap         
     37959.8 : mana_feed          (overflow=1.1%)
     61100.3 : mp5_regen        
     23910.5 : replenishment    
  Pet "felguard" Gains:
    45906.3 : initial_mana     
     4583.8 : mana_feed          (overflow=97.7%)
     3281.8 : mana_spring_totem  (overflow=83.2%)
    49442.3 : mp5_regen          (overflow=72.2%)
     2472.8 : replenishment      (overflow=83.2%)
  Scale Factors:
    Weights :  Sta=0.0000  Int=0.0000  SP=0.0000  Hit=0.0000  Crit=0.0000  Haste=0.0000  Mastery=0.0000
    Wowhead : 
  DPS Plot Data ( min=-200.0 max=200.0 points=21 )

Player: thali�*_IncNoBane gnome warlock demonology 85
  DPS: 17453.7  Error=11.3/0.1%  Range=1541/8.8%  DPR=9.7  RPS-Out=1805.7 RPS-In=1565.5  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=48.0
  Origin: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/marecage-de-zangar/thali%C3%A0/advanced
  Talents: http://fr.wowhead.com/talent#IzZfrrf0uMRdocrb
  Core Stats:  strength=640|61(0)  agility=655|75(0)  stamina=5993|4987(4565)  intellect=4182|3574(3229)  spirit=175|175(0)  mastery=13.65|13.65(1013)  health=96924|87874  mana=80380|77576
  Spell Stats:  power=7193|5293(1729)  hit=17.20%|17.20%(1762)  crit=18.54%|12.60%(967)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=18.32%|9.40%(1204)  mp5=1027|1027(0)
  Attack Stats  power=1399|112(0)  hit=14.67%|14.67%(1762)  crit=16.34%|8.40%(967)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  haste=9.40%|9.40%(1204)
  Defense Stats:  armor=7363|7363(7363)  blockv=320|31(0)  miss=4.70%|4.70%  dodge=3.89%|1.98%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: immolate/metamorphosis/incinerate/corruption/fear/soul_link/ritual_of_souls/drain_soul/unending_breath
  Priorities:
    flask,type=draconic_mind/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast/fel_armor
    summon_felguard/dark_intent/snapshot_stats/use_item,name=flamebloom_gloves
    volcanic_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|!in_combat/demon_soul
    hand_of_guldan,if=dot.immolate.remains>(cast_time+travel_time)
    immolate,if=dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time&buff.improved_soul_fire.remains>cast_time&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    soulburn,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.bloodlust.down
    soul_fire,if=buff.improved_soul_fire.cooldown_remains<(cast_time+travel_time)&buff.bloodlust.down&!in_flight
    metamorphosis
    immolate,if=(dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    bane_of_doom,if=(remains<3|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react
    immolation,if=buff.metamorphosis.remains>10
    corruption,if=(!ticking|dot.corruption.remains<tick_time)&miss_react/shadowflame
    hand_of_guldan/incinerate,if=buff.molten_core.react
    soul_fire,if=buff.decimation.react/summon_infernal/life_tap,mana_percentage<=35
    incinerate/life_tap
  Actions:
    bane_of_doom        Count=  6.1|48.28sec  DPE= 57931| 7%  DPET= 53572  DPR=  18.8  pDPS=1174  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=19  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=15369|10801|26740  CritTick=31696|22195|54947|18.9%
    corruption          Count= 18.8|16.04sec  DPE= 23921| 9%  DPET= 21642  DPR=  19.4  pDPS=1500  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=135  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=2671|2010|5296  CritTick=5501|4130|10883|23.7%
    hand_of_guldan      Count= 21.3|14.15sec  DPE= 17527| 7%  DPET= 11969  DPR=  12.2  pDPS=1247  Miss=0.00%  Hit=14016|11086|25623  Crit=28809|22780|52651|23.7%
    immolate            Count= 20.0|14.99sec  DPE= 41231|16%  DPET= 28091  DPR=  25.1  pDPS=2754  Miss=0.00%  Hit=4514|3521|8455  Crit= 9290| 7234|17374|23.8%  TickCount=140  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4082|3121|7671  CritTick=8396|6413|15762|23.7%
    immolation_aura     Count=  3.1|103.81sec  DPE= 72062| 4%  DPET= 66716  DPR=   5.5  pDPS= 751  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=66  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3395|2873|4794
    incinerate          Count= 67.2| 3.98sec  DPE= 11838|15%  DPET=  7877  DPR=   4.1  pDPS=2653  Miss=0.00%  Hit=9473|6936|21188  Crit=19475|14252|43539|23.6%
    infernal_awakening  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 20990| 0%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=  70  Miss=0.00%  Hit=16771|10942|17872  Crit=34226|22485|36724|24.2%
    shadowflame         Count= 21.0|14.25sec  DPE= 19066| 8%  DPET= 17289  DPR=   3.7  pDPS=1333  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2361|1871|4056  Crit= 4861| 3844| 8334|23.9%  TickCount=88  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3075|2278|6010  CritTick=6326|4681|12349|23.6%
    soul_fire           Count= 40.7| 7.46sec  DPE= 14696|11%  DPET=  9542  DPR=   7.9  pDPS=1993  Miss=0.00%  Hit=11741|9087|21214  Crit=24155|18673|43591|23.8%
   felguard  (DPS=2905.8)
    felstorm            Count=  7.0|45.00sec  DPE= 40883|33%  DPET=     1  DPR= 125.2  pDPS= 955  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=49  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4772|4434|6586  CritTick=9475|8868|13173|22.7%
    legion_strike       Count= 50.5| 6.00sec  DPE=  2850|17%  DPET=  1854  DPR=   2.5  pDPS= 480  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2305|2173|3020  Crit= 4612| 4345| 6039|23.6%
    melee               Count=187.2| 1.60sec  DPE=  2353|51%  DPET=  1472  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1470  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1998|1876|2600  Crit= 3995| 3751| 5200|23.8%  Glance=1498|24.0%
   infernal  (DPS=2565.9)
    infernal_immolation  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 55725|29%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 746  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=32  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1741|1600|2417
    infernal_melee      Count= 78.0| 0.82sec  DPE=  1742|71%  DPET=  1048  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1820  Miss=7.98%  Hit=1684|1617|2007  Crit= 3369| 3233| 4013|23.9%  Glance=1263|23.9%  Dodge=6.5%
   ebon_imp  (DPS=456.6)
    ebon_imp_melee      Count=157.7| 0.83sec  DPE=   828|100%  DPET=   498  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 457  Miss=8.03%  Hit= 801| 801| 801  Crit= 1602| 1602| 1602|23.8%  Glance= 601|24.1%  Dodge=6.5%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_might_regen/dark_intent
  Constant Buffs: dark_intent_feedback/fel_armor/fortitude/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    anhuurs_hymnal         : start=5.5  refresh=0.0   interval= 57.5 trigger=57.5  uptime=18%
    bloodlust              : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit= 1%
    decimation             : start=1.0  refresh=30.7  interval= 54.4 trigger=1.9   uptime=20%  benefit=36%
    demon_soul_felguard    : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=120.7 trigger=120.7 uptime=20%  benefit=25%
    hand_of_guldan         : start=2.4  refresh=18.9  interval= 78.6 trigger=14.1  uptime=98%  benefit=98%
    improved_soul_fire     : start=16.9 refresh=0.0   interval= 18.2 trigger=18.2  uptime=80%  benefit=75%
    metamorphosis          : start=3.2  refresh=0.0   interval=105.3 trigger=105.3 uptime=37%  benefit=51%
    molten_core            : start=7.1  refresh=1.3   interval= 37.3 trigger=31.0  uptime=17%  benefit=31%
    shadow_trance          : start=4.6  refresh=0.8   interval= 53.0 trigger=43.4  uptime=16%
    sorrowsong             : start=4.2  refresh=0.0   interval= 24.1 trigger=24.1  uptime=13%
    soulburn               : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=106.5 trigger=106.5 uptime= 8%  benefit= 6%
    synapse_springs        : start=5.3  refresh=0.0   interval= 60.6 trigger=60.6  uptime=20%
    volcanic_potion        : start=2.0  refresh=0.0   interval=238.3 trigger=238.3 uptime=15%
    felguard-bloodlust     : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit=16%
    infernal-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
    ebon_imp-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : backdraft_0                   
  Procs:
      9.5 |  28.33sec : ebon_imp
     13.3 |  19.47sec : impending_doom
      5.4 |  43.38sec : shadow_trance
  Gains:
     19397.9 : blessing_of_might
     80379.6 : initial_mana     
    326968.5 : life_tap         
     37895.1 : mana_feed          (overflow=1.1%)
     61100.3 : mp5_regen        
     23910.5 : replenishment    
  Pet "felguard" Gains:
    45906.3 : initial_mana     
     4777.8 : mana_feed          (overflow=97.6%)
     3271.6 : mana_spring_totem  (overflow=83.2%)
    49267.1 : mp5_regen          (overflow=72.3%)
     2465.1 : replenishment      (overflow=83.2%)
  Scale Factors:
    Weights :  Sta=0.0000  Int=0.0000  SP=0.0000  Hit=0.0000  Crit=0.0000  Haste=0.0000  Mastery=0.0000
    Wowhead : 
  DPS Plot Data ( min=-200.0 max=200.0 points=21 )

Player: thali�*_SB gnome warlock demonology 85
  DPS: 17770.5  Error=11.3/0.1%  Range=1774/10.0%  DPR=10.8  RPS-Out=1641.1 RPS-In=1401.1  Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=47.8
  Origin: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/marecage-de-zangar/thali%C3%A0/advanced
  Talents: http://fr.wowhead.com/talent#IZfrrf0uMRdourb
  Core Stats:  strength=640|61(0)  agility=655|75(0)  stamina=5993|4987(4565)  intellect=4182|3574(3229)  spirit=175|175(0)  mastery=13.65|13.65(1013)  health=96924|87874  mana=80380|77576
  Spell Stats:  power=7193|5293(1729)  hit=17.20%|17.20%(1762)  crit=18.54%|12.60%(967)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=18.32%|9.40%(1204)  mp5=1027|1027(0)
  Attack Stats  power=1399|112(0)  hit=14.67%|14.67%(1762)  crit=16.34%|8.40%(967)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  haste=9.40%|9.40%(1204)
  Defense Stats:  armor=7363|7363(7363)  blockv=320|31(0)  miss=4.70%|4.70%  dodge=3.89%|1.98%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: immolate/metamorphosis/incinerate/shadow_bolt/fear/soul_link/ritual_of_souls/drain_soul/unending_breath
  Priorities:
    flask,type=draconic_mind/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast/fel_armor
    summon_felguard/dark_intent/snapshot_stats/use_item,name=flamebloom_gloves
    volcanic_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|!in_combat/demon_soul
    hand_of_guldan,if=dot.immolate.remains>(cast_time+travel_time)
    immolate,if=dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time&buff.improved_soul_fire.remains>cast_time&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    soulburn,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.bloodlust.down
    soul_fire,if=buff.improved_soul_fire.cooldown_remains<(cast_time+travel_time)&buff.bloodlust.down&!in_flight
    metamorphosis
    immolate,if=(dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+tick_time|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
    bane_of_doom,if=(remains<3|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react
    immolation,if=buff.metamorphosis.remains>10
    corruption,if=(!ticking|dot.corruption.remains<tick_time)&miss_react/shadowflame
    hand_of_guldan/incinerate,if=buff.molten_core.react
    soul_fire,if=buff.decimation.react/summon_infernal/life_tap,mana_percentage<=35
    shadow_bolt/life_tap
  Actions:
    bane_of_doom        Count=  6.1|47.77sec  DPE= 57363| 7%  DPET= 52686  DPR=  18.6  pDPS=1168  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=19  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=15269|10801|26740  CritTick=31473|22195|54947|18.9%
    corruption          Count= 18.8|16.08sec  DPE= 24127| 8%  DPET= 21696  DPR=  19.6  pDPS=1510  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=134  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=2700|2010|5296  CritTick=5556|4130|10883|23.7%
    hand_of_guldan      Count= 21.3|14.18sec  DPE= 17569| 7%  DPET= 12013  DPR=  12.2  pDPS=1249  Miss=0.00%  Hit=14032|11086|25623  Crit=28912|22780|52651|23.8%
    immolate            Count= 20.2|14.83sec  DPE= 41002|16%  DPET= 36665  DPR=  24.9  pDPS=2767  Miss=0.00%  Hit=4527|3521|8455  Crit= 9323| 7234|17374|23.6%  TickCount=140  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4090|3121|7671  CritTick=8420|6413|15762|23.7%
    immolation_aura     Count=  3.1|103.61sec  DPE= 72119| 4%  DPET= 66522  DPR=   5.5  pDPS= 753  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=66  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3406|2873|4794
    incinerate          Count= 21.7|11.02sec  DPE= 12360| 5%  DPET= 10682  DPR=   4.3  pDPS= 895  Miss=0.00%  Hit=9875|7445|19675  Crit=20319|15616|40429|23.8%
    infernal_awakening  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 21032| 0%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=  70  Miss=0.00%  Hit=16803|10942|17872  Crit=34610|22485|36724|23.8%
    shadow_bolt         Count= 46.5| 4.95sec  DPE= 13153|11%  DPET=  7185  DPR=   7.5  pDPS=2040  Miss=0.00%  Hit=10520|8170|21580  Crit=21627|16788|44344|23.7%
    shadowflame         Count= 20.7|14.44sec  DPE= 19159| 7%  DPET= 17256  DPR=   3.7  pDPS=1325  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2369|1871|4056  Crit= 4862| 3844| 8334|23.8%  TickCount=87  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=3083|2278|6010  CritTick=6355|4681|12349|23.7%
    soul_fire           Count= 41.2| 7.36sec  DPE= 14634|11%  DPET=  9529  DPR=   7.9  pDPS=2011  Miss=0.00%  Hit=11701|9087|21214  Crit=24113|18673|43591|23.6%
   felguard  (DPS=2906.8)
    felstorm            Count=  7.0|45.00sec  DPE= 40926|33%  DPET=     1  DPR= 125.3  pDPS= 956  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=49  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=4777|4434|6586  CritTick=9484|8868|13173|22.7%
    legion_strike       Count= 50.5| 6.00sec  DPE=  2849|17%  DPET=  1854  DPR=   2.5  pDPS= 480  Miss=0.00%  Hit=2304|2173|3020  Crit= 4614| 4345| 6039|23.6%
    melee               Count=187.2| 1.60sec  DPE=  2353|51%  DPET=  1472  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1470  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1998|1876|2600  Crit= 3995| 3751| 5200|23.8%  Glance=1499|24.0%
   infernal  (DPS=2581.0)
    infernal_immolation  Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 55730|29%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 750  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=32  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1742|1600|2417
    infernal_melee      Count= 78.0| 0.82sec  DPE=  1744|71%  DPET=  1049  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1831  Miss=7.94%  Hit=1684|1617|2007  Crit= 3369| 3233| 4013|24.0%  Glance=1263|24.1%  Dodge=6.5%
   ebon_imp  (DPS=457.0)
    ebon_imp_melee      Count=158.2| 0.83sec  DPE=   828|100%  DPET=   498  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 457  Miss=8.00%  Hit= 801| 801| 801  Crit= 1602| 1602| 1602|23.9%  Glance= 601|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_might_regen/dark_intent
  Constant Buffs: dark_intent_feedback/fel_armor/fortitude/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    anhuurs_hymnal         : start=5.6  refresh=0.0   interval= 57.4 trigger=57.4  uptime=18%
    bloodlust              : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit= 1%
    decimation             : start=1.0  refresh=31.5  interval= 53.5 trigger=1.9   uptime=20%  benefit=37%
    demon_soul_felguard    : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=120.7 trigger=120.7 uptime=20%  benefit=25%
    hand_of_guldan         : start=2.7  refresh=18.6  interval= 87.5 trigger=14.2  uptime=98%  benefit=98%
    improved_soul_fire     : start=16.8 refresh=0.0   interval= 18.2 trigger=18.2  uptime=79%  benefit=75%
    metamorphosis          : start=3.2  refresh=0.0   interval=105.0 trigger=105.0 uptime=37%  benefit=51%
    molten_core            : start=7.0  refresh=1.4   interval= 38.1 trigger=30.9  uptime=19%  benefit=100%
    sorrowsong             : start=4.2  refresh=0.0   interval= 24.2 trigger=24.2  uptime=13%
    soulburn               : start=3.0  refresh=0.0   interval=106.2 trigger=106.2 uptime= 8%  benefit= 6%
    synapse_springs        : start=5.3  refresh=0.0   interval= 60.7 trigger=60.7  uptime=20%
    volcanic_potion        : start=2.0  refresh=0.0   interval=238.3 trigger=238.3 uptime=15%
    felguard-bloodlust     : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit=16%
    infernal-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
    ebon_imp-replenishment : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 0%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : backdraft_0                   
  Procs:
      9.6 |  28.29sec : ebon_imp
     13.5 |  19.22sec : impending_doom
  Gains:
     19397.9 : blessing_of_might
     80379.6 : initial_mana     
    277701.8 : life_tap         
     37873.9 : mana_feed          (overflow=1.1%)
     61100.3 : mp5_regen        
     23910.5 : replenishment    
  Pet "felguard" Gains:
    45906.3 : initial_mana     
     4196.1 : mana_feed          (overflow=97.5%)
     3288.9 : mana_spring_totem  (overflow=83.2%)
    49819.1 : mp5_regen          (overflow=72.0%)
     2478.1 : replenishment      (overflow=83.2%)
  Scale Factors:
    Weights :  Sta=0.0000  Int=0.0000  SP=0.0000  Hit=0.0000  Crit=0.0000  Haste=0.0000  Mastery=0.0000
    Wowhead : 
  DPS Plot Data ( min=-200.0 max=200.0 points=21 )

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: Demonic Pact/bleeding/blood_frenzy_physical/communion/critical_mass/earth_and_moon/hunters_mark
  Constant: leader_of_the_pack/mana_spring_totem/mangle/poisoned/strength_of_earth/sunder_armor/thunder_clap
  Constant: windfury_totem/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 104329020
  MaxEventQueue = 81
  TargetHealth  = 15770225
  SimSeconds    = 3000131
  CpuSeconds    = 77.606
  SpeedUp       = 38658

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=0.999602 Range=1.000000 Gauss=0.999951

Jmickey · 12/17/10, 1:21 AM

Originally Posted by Snifu

I have a small question. I know that the talent build in the OP is the optimal personal DPS build and that it assumes that you are fully raid buffs and the enemy are fully raid debuffed.

My question is if you are the only one in your raid who can apply the spell critical strike debuff to the enemy via shadow and flame? Is the 33% chance with one point in the talent enough to ensure decent uptime? If not, what talent would you take points out of (I assume bane), and would you take one or two points out? It seems to me that a 66% chance to apply the debuff would be enough to keep the debuff up without having to ignore molten core procs to keep the debuff up. But that's more of a gut feeling than anything backed up by math.

Getting the initial buff up will be a tad difficult, but onces it is up, keeping it up should not be hard with 1/3 SnF. You have 30 seconds to refresh it which is a fair few shadow bolts, even with MC procs, DoT refreshing etc.

If your hell bent on putting another point in, you would need to Sim it to be sure where it is best to take out the point, but either Bane or possibly Emberstorm would be best, but that is just speculation.

mierin · 12/17/10, 2:31 PM

I have macroed Blood Fury, Demon Soul, and Metamorphosis together into one button. Is this a mistake? I am doing myself a disservice by not using each of them on their own cooldown?

I am peaking at 12k dps and averaging 9-10k dps against bosses. In heroics its usually around 7-8k. There was a hunter in the Baradin Hold group I was in last night that was doing 16k dps. The only time I was able to maintain 11-12k was when I had my cooldowns popped and my Doomguard summoned during that fight (my only raid experience so far in Cataclysm). I wish I had remembered to log the fight so I could see where I was going wrong. =[

My hit is 16.55% which means I need to bump that up a bit more and I could use some more 346 gear to finish out a few rough spots but can anyone give me some advice on managing the rotation and keeping DPS strong during movement phases? Any other abilities I should macro together to reduce hotkey/button clutter?

Demi9OD · 12/17/10, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by mierin

I have macroed Blood Fury, Demon Soul, and Metamorphosis together into one button. Is this a mistake? I am doing myself a disservice by not using each of them on their own cooldown?

I am peaking at 12k dps and averaging 9-10k dps against bosses. In heroics its usually around 7-8k. There was a hunter in the Baradin Hold group I was in last night that was doing 16k dps. The only time I was able to maintain 11-12k was when I had my cooldowns popped and my Doomguard summoned during that fight (my only raid experience so far in Cataclysm). I wish I had remembered to log the fight so I could see where I was going wrong. =[

My hit is 16.55% which means I need to bump that up a bit more and I could use some more 346 gear to finish out a few rough spots but can anyone give me some advice on managing the rotation and keeping DPS strong during movement phases? Any other abilities I should macro together to reduce hotkey/button clutter?

Blood Fury and Demon Soul should be macro'd together, since they always line up. I would not recommend adding Meta to that macro. With poor or incredible Impending Doom RNG you're delaying cooldowns multiple times per raid mob. In heroics you might not even get a chance for a second Meta.

Use timer bars with fixed duration support for Demon Soul and Metamorphosis. ButtonTimers is a great cooldown/aura tracking mod with fixed time length support. Set your timers for Meta and DS to a 15 second fixed time. If one of the timers runs out before the other begins moving, blow the cooldown. 15 seconds is an arbitrary setting but you get the idea, set it to the longest time you are willing to delay a cooldown.

Well configured timers can help with your rotation in other ways too. Configure an Improved Soul Fire bar with a -1 second adjustment to account for travel time. Set the bar to warn less than cast time. When the bar turns red, that is the absolute earliest you can begin casting Soul Fire without overlapping the proc. Configure an Immolate bar with a -2 second adjustment (lower this as your haste increases) and warn less than cast time. When the bar turns red that is the earliest you can cast Immolate and only overlap one tick.

The only other macros I use for Demonology are Felstorm/Hellfire and Felstorm/Shadow Flame for AOE situations. There is simply a lot of hotkey/button clutter for Warlocks in cata, hopefully others will have good tips on how they have been able to reduce it.

nehcnhoj · 12/17/10, 5:07 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is the logic behind casting our soulfire such that it refreshes the buff "ideally" 0.1 secs after the buff runs off? Wouldn't starting the soulfire cast a split second before the haste buff runs off be a better rotation? My logic behind this is, soulfire is one of our lowest DPET skills(without decimate), therefore if we cast it more often, (as a result of the 0.1 sec refreshing buff logic) the resulting rotation is a lower dps? Is there any benefit from having a 0.1 gap inbetween buffs as opposed to a 1+ maybe 2 second gap? In both scenarios the cast right after SF would not benefit from the 15% haste (i believe), so I'm not sure what the point is here.

If i'm totally off on something I do apologise.