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Old 01/20/11, 2:55 PM   #136
chiyeuk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Arathor
Originally Posted by Jmickey View Post
Destruction
Tier Talent Notes Recommendation
2 Emberstorm Provides significant mana regen Required
Shouldn't Emberstorm read: "Reduces cast time for Soul Fire and Incinerate"?

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Old 01/20/11, 3:17 PM   #137
Jmickey
<3 Kitty
 
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Blood Elf Warlock
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by chiyeuk View Post
Shouldn't Emberstorm read: "Reduces cast time for Soul Fire and Incinerate"?
Yes, was a typo. Thanks for picking that up.


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Old 01/20/11, 3:39 PM   #138
sarkastro
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Breklin View Post
Fel Synergy heals your pet - not you. The point of taking the talent is that it allows you to use Soul Link and not worry about the health of your pet. Glyphed you're getting 25% damage reduction with Soul Link, which is far better than 8% stamina.
While this could very well change in Heroic, I have had zero issue running Soul Link (glyphed) withough Fel Synergy, and I have found the extra stamina from DE quite helpful.

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Old 01/20/11, 3:44 PM   #139
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Naelyan View Post
Hi,
the reducing of the imp's cast time by 0.75 will give you more chances to proc ISF.
Isn't this still bugged and limited to 1.5 seconds thus make the 3rd point useless?

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Old 01/20/11, 5:44 PM   #140
Breklin
Von Kaiser
 
Breklin's Avatar
 
Worgen Priest
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by sarkastro View Post
While this could very well change in Heroic, I have had zero issue running Soul Link (glyphed) withough Fel Synergy, and I have found the extra stamina from DE quite helpful.
If you have access to a Healing Stream totem, sure, your Imp will probably be fine in 90% of cases and is why you have no problem. I also can't speak for heroic modes but I'd rather be self-sustaining than rely on outside sources to ensure my pet stays alive.

An extra 5-6k health is nice but the points are better spent on Fel Synergy.

Originally Posted by Astrylian
They're not so much raiding, as they are grouping up to simultaneously attempt to solo bosses.

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Old 01/20/11, 6:37 PM   #141
Estha
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis (EU)
In most cases, one point in fel synergy is far enough to keep the imp alive in my experience, including every hardmode and aoe-heavy-fight - with or without healing stream. In future contents (and higher haste levels) we may be able to swap one point out of dark arts for additional stamina (2/3 instead of 1/3), if my math is not too bad.

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Old 01/20/11, 6:54 PM   #142
sarkastro
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Icecrown
Whether it's HST, VE, or any number of smart/aoe heals, the chances of one of them not being available to keep your pet up has been nominal at best in my experience. The fact that my pet still has zero problem staying up regardless of the passive healing I have in my group tells me there are more than enough heals that don't consume healer mana to go around. With as tight as healer mana is right now, I would much rather my character be more self-sustaining than my pet. Every heal they don't have to cast on me is another potential life saved.

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Old 01/21/11, 2:01 AM   #143
Burberri
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warlock
 
<G2>
Silvermoon
Based on 4.0.3 modeling, each point in Demonic Embrace is worth 35 HPS (fel armor + soul leech). It also increases your EHP through soul link by a little over 3k. Yeah its not great, but I have never had a problem with my pet dying unless you like camp him in the lava during nef phase 2.

to me its some benefit v. no benefit as to why I take DE.

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Old 01/21/11, 8:38 AM   #144
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by sarkastro View Post
Whether it's HST, VE, or any number of smart/aoe heals, the chances of one of them not being available to keep your pet up has been nominal at best in my experience. The fact that my pet still has zero problem staying up regardless of the passive healing I have in my group tells me there are more than enough heals that don't consume healer mana to go around. With as tight as healer mana is right now, I would much rather my character be more self-sustaining than my pet. Every heal they don't have to cast on me is another potential life saved.
If your pet had not been low on hp, that Wild Growth/Circle of Healing/Chain Heal might have hit a player instead of your pet. Just because healers are not directly targetting your pet does not mean it doesn't cost them mana to keep it up. The benefit of the second point is certainly doubtful, but it's not like 1 point in Demonic Emrabce will matter very often either considering most raid damage is tuned for players without Soul Link.

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Old 01/26/11, 6:59 AM   #145
Cepha
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Since we are doing CotFW Heroic and damage optimization became interesting for this encounter I am asking myself if there is a break even Point for recasting ISF.
Example:
I know I will change platforms in about 8 seconds and the buff will run out in 2seconds.
Is it worth to recast ISF, although I will loose a big part of the buff while changing platforms.
Anyone thought about this before? Could not find anything about that.

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Old 01/26/11, 9:32 AM   #146
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Cepha View Post
Since we are doing CotFW Heroic and damage optimization became interesting for this encounter I am asking myself if there is a break even Point for recasting ISF.
Example:
I know I will change platforms in about 8 seconds and the buff will run out in 2seconds.
Is it worth to recast ISF, although I will loose a big part of the buff while changing platforms.
Anyone thought about this before? Could not find anything about that.
Short answer: yes, if you're not gaining the benefit of the ISF (or any other side effect procced from an otherwise low priority spell) for a proportion of its duration then its value will be diminished and there will come a point where casting other spells would be better dps.

Unfortunately, the situation you describe also affects priority in other ways.

For instance, even though you are no longer attacking the Djinn on the platform you're leaving, they're still taking damage from any DoTs left up, which means that in some cases it will be better to re-apply DoTs than to cast otehr spells, depending on how long the DoT has left to run. This is further complicated by the fact that you can refresh your instant DoTs while running towards the jump, but not your cast time spells. Also, you may have time to cast one Soul Fire, but not two Incinerates (say) which would mean that even though the incinerates are better dps, you can't cast one and a half Incinerates!

In essence, what I'm trying to say is that even though it may be theoretically possible to determine the best course of action, it would be very complicated and the answer is likely to change very quickly as you approach the time when you must jump. The difference between the "best" strategy and running your normal priorities until forced to stop is likely to be small as the period of our "rotation" is quite small (~15seconds other than CoD).

All things considered, if it were me: I would run my normal rotation until just before having to move (including Soul Fire) and finish by re-applying my DoTs just before I jumped, but whatever you're most comfortable doing is likely to give the best result.

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Old 01/26/11, 11:22 AM   #147
Burberri
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warlock
 
<G2>
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Marraver View Post
Excuse me if I'm retarded, but do we aim for the 2589 rating the spreadsheet shows (under the non-goblin haste numbers with dark intent and wrath) for the 7th tick or the 2635 as stated above? I'm just trying to make sense of the difference between these 2 numbers.
Note he is talking about GCD capped, which is impossible post 4.0.6 ( you would need 39%ish haste rating)

The 2635 number is for the 8th immolate tick which you can achieve currently in 4.0.3 with nearly BiS heroic gear, but will be unobtainable in 4.0.6 due to the loss of 15% haste from ISF. The haste rating required to hit the 7th tick in 4.0.6 is 2589.

.

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Old 01/28/11, 12:58 AM   #148
rei-gouki
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Aman'Thul
Jmickey, sorry to be a bother, but what is the function of the "0.00049999" in the haste formulae? Are you attempting to cause the calculated haste targets be as low as possible given the numbers or is it a representation of the way Blizz rounds their numbers? Couldn't you have just gone to a 4th (or more) decimal place for something like that and just applied a safe rounding at the end?

EDIT: Found the post by Keldion that more or less explains it short of a blue post. Seems tick speed rounding is where haste rating thresholds gets pushed around.
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t111390-...3/#post1828020

Last edited by rei-gouki : 02/10/11 at 1:29 AM. Reason: Update

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Old 01/28/11, 9:20 AM   #149
Asharfh
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Les Sentinelles (EU)
Originally Posted by rei-gouki View Post
Jmickey, sorry to be a bother, but what is the function of the "0.00049999" in the haste formulae? Are you attempting to cause the calculated haste targets be as low as possible given the numbers or is it a representation of the way Blizz rounds their numbers? Couldn't you have just gone to a 4th (or more) decimal place for something like that and just applied a safe rounding at the end?
I think this is about how float numbers rounding works in the WoW programming language.


I computed new haste thresholds for the 4.0.6 patch with this formula :

21 (7th corruption tick) goblin : 0 (already achieved through buffs)
220 (6th immolate tick) goblin : 91
1993 (8th corruption tick) goblin : 1846
2589 (7th immolate tick) goblin : 2437

Can anyone confirm these numbers ?


I also have a question about casting speed : What are the differences with haste other that it doesn't affect the global cooldown and the imp casting speed ?

By the way thanks to JMickey for this great post and please excuse my bad english.

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Old 01/28/11, 6:20 PM   #150
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
When the DoT is applied.

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