Elitist Jerks Destruction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)

01/29/11, 8:32 AM   #151
rei-gouki
Von Kaiser

Human Warlock

Aman'Thul
 Originally Posted by Asharfh I think this is about how float numbers rounding works in the WoW programming language.
Well, the given example of 30% translates to a tick speed of every 2.30769 sec to 5 decimal places. The time being used is 2.307 sec rather than 2.308 so it's not rounding in the normal sense. If you didn't round the figures at that point of the calculation and let it carry through, the haste targets become exactly 10%, 30%, and 50% for the next 3 ticks of Immolate.
 Originally Posted by Asharfh I computed new haste thresholds for the 4.0.6 patch with this formula : 21 (7th corruption tick) goblin : 0 (already achieved through buffs) 220 (6th immolate tick) goblin : 91 1993 (8th corruption tick) goblin : 1846 2589 (7th immolate tick) goblin : 2437 Can anyone confirm these numbers ?
As I understand it, we simply will be losing the 15% haste from ISF meaning we will only have the 3% from DI and the 5% aura for a total of 8%. In reference to Immolate, all that's needed is 2% for the 6th tick and 22% for the 7th tick. At 128.05 haste rating to 1% @L85, that would mean 256.1 and 2817.1 haste rating, respectively.

w/ 8% haste buff (haste rating, rounded up)
----------
Imm 6th tick: 257
Imm 7th tick: 2818
Corr 7th tick: 43
Corr 8th tick: 2177

Is there a source of haste I'm missing that you've included?

EDIT: typos

 01/29/11, 8:50 AM #152 Saufsoldat Von Kaiser   Saufsoldat Undead Warlock   Madmortem (EU) Haste is multiplicative, haste modifiers do not give you a flat amount of haste.
 01/30/11, 2:29 AM #153 peacefulchaosman Glass Joe   Tyrannus Blood Elf Warlock   Akama Bane of Havoc I'm either misunderstanding your definition Bane of Havoc under the talents (marked as optional) or maybe this ability has been updated. You put "15% of damage done to your damage done to a target gets tran[s]fered to the Banes target". The in-game description states "causing 15% of all damage done by the Warlock to also be dealt to the baned target". I haven't checked it out, but theoretically this means that there is no lost dps to the primary target. If this holds true, would placing Bane of Havoc on certain adds during some boss fights not benefit your overall dps? Obviously it should not be used on adds that need to be burned quickly. Maybe this is not the best tactic to increase overall dps, but I use it during the Siamat fight. The Servants of Siamat must be burned quickly, but most people ignore the Minions of Siamat. So I usually place Bane of Havoc on the Minions and then burn down the Servants, and usually by the time each Servant is dead so is the Minion.
01/30/11, 2:59 AM   #154
Voxx
Piston Honda

Gnome Warlock

Whisperwind
 Originally Posted by peacefulchaosman I'm either misunderstanding your definition Bane of Havoc under the talents (marked as optional) or maybe this ability has been updated. You put "15% of damage done to your damage done to a target gets tran[s]fered to the Banes target". The in-game description states "causing 15% of all damage done by the Warlock to also be dealt to the baned target". I haven't checked it out, but theoretically this means that there is no lost dps to the primary target. If this holds true, would placing Bane of Havoc on certain adds during some boss fights not benefit your overall dps? Obviously it should not be used on adds that need to be burned quickly. Maybe this is not the best tactic to increase overall dps, but I use it during the Siamat fight. The Servants of Siamat must be burned quickly, but most people ignore the Minions of Siamat. So I usually place Bane of Havoc on the Minions and then burn down the Servants, and usually by the time each Servant is dead so is the Minion.
You're correct in your assumption, there is no dps loss on your current target if you Bane another. However you do lose a gcd by doing this, so if you're burning a target down, Bane of Havoc might not be worth the GCD. Bane is an ability that's pretty popular to abuse on fights like Magmaw where you can Bane Magmaw right before he slumps, thus getting a 15% added amount of damage to his body while you dps his head at 100% extra damage. Most Cataclysm fights actually support heavy BoH use at the moment.

(On a side note: the minions you're speaking of have their health deplete regardless of whether you dps them and thus they can be completely ignored if you want.)

01/30/11, 4:09 AM   #155
Jmickey
<3 Kitty

Blood Elf Warlock

Saurfang
 Originally Posted by peacefulchaosman I'm either misunderstanding your definition Bane of Havoc under the talents (marked as optional) or maybe this ability has been updated. You put "15% of damage done to your damage done to a target gets tran[s]fered to the Banes target". The in-game description states "causing 15% of all damage done by the Warlock to also be dealt to the baned target". I haven't checked it out, but theoretically this means that there is no lost dps to the primary target. If this holds true, would placing Bane of Havoc on certain adds during some boss fights not benefit your overall dps? Obviously it should not be used on adds that need to be burned quickly.
That's basically what I was trying to say, I have reworded it to make more sense. The reason it is a marked as optional is due to the fact it isn't a direct single target DPS increase. However, that's not to say you shouldn't take it and use it whenever possible.

I am in the process of adding a BoH section to the OP, and how to maximize it's use on each encounter, it's just an issue of time. There are alot of things I would like to add to all 3 threads, at this point everything should be done by the end of 1st tier (possibly sooner, will have alot more time when everything is on farm), ready for tier 2.

 01/30/11, 11:05 AM #156 rei-gouki Von Kaiser   Reilic Human Warlock   Aman'Thul ergh. It was staring me in the face too. Thanks, Saufsoldat, the 0.15% haste just about covers it. w/ 3% DI and 5% aura haste buffs (haste rating, rounded up) ---------- Imm 6th tick: 220 Imm 7th tick: 2588 Corr 7th tick: 22 Corr 8th tick: 1996 So pretty much confirmed. A point here or there's just rounding.
 02/09/11, 3:07 AM #157 Asharfh Glass Joe     Asharfh Orc Warlock   Les Sentinelles (EU) BoH doesn't care about how far the target you are nuking and the one with BoH are, or at least the maximal distance if it exists is irrelevant in a raid environment. However, the way of using BoH on this particular encounter depends heavily on your strategy and assignment.
 02/10/11, 5:36 PM #158 Lucrece Von Kaiser   Lunarrayne Night Elf Druid   Whisperwind Is there a difference in ICD/duration ratio between Stump of Time and Bell that accounts for such a difference in the trinkets? It seems like the difference would be the amount of reforging going on, where someone with stum could afford to reforge to haste/crit whereas non-stumps would reforge to hit. Also, I have some qualms about proper rotation. Should Incinerate only be cast during a backdraft proc and the downtime of conflagrate after consuming backdraft be refilled with DoT/ISF renewal, or is casting Incinerate still not a DPS loss? I'm finding that half/thirdway into a non-backdraft incinerate my Conflagrate is constantly coming up. I ask this mostly because I see a heavy discrepancy in Incinerate damage between another lock and myself on a basically standstill fight like heroic Chimaeron. I'll do slightly more damage via immolate, corruption, and my debuff uptimes are near to 100% as they can be while the other lock ranks lower, but when it comes to damage breakdowns the difference in Incinerate damage is nearly 20-30% wide. And yet SimCraft at the latest version shows my dps average projected higher by about 700 dps. Kiberium @ Proudmoore - Game - World of Warcraft vs. Tinieblas @ Proudmoore - Game - World of Warcraft vs. Justus @ Proudmoore - Game - World of Warcraft World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis Part of my concern has been that since the patch released I've noticed some warlocks have been complaining about some casting latency, which I've certainly experienced (along with some fps issues that were not there pre-patch). But even then sitting at a nearly 6% haste advantage and noticing my Incinerates going out slower than my other counterparts has become surprising. Trying to pinpoint the issue so far. Last edited by Lucrece : 02/10/11 at 5:48 PM.
02/11/11, 4:46 PM   #159
Reeshet
Piston Honda

Human Warlock

Emerald Dream
 Originally Posted by Jmickey Basically, you should always open with Soul Fire, generally an instant cast through Soul Burn, and continue to keep the buff up as much as possible, this includes hard casting it. In addition using Demon Soul on cooldown is important, preferably with on "Use" trinkets. After that it is simply a case of keeping Immolate, Corruption and Bane of Doom up as much as possible, while using Conflagrate and Chaos Bolt on cooldown.
Possibly worth noting that you can activate Soulburn immediately before combat starts and then Harvest Soul. We do a short 5 4 3 2 1 countdown on our pulls and I pop Soulburn at 4 and Harvest Soul at 3 and then by the time the boss is attacking the tank I still have an instant cast Soulfire and 3 shards for later in the fight.

02/11/11, 5:59 PM   #160
Velocet
Glass Joe

Human Warlock

Hellfire (EU)
 Originally Posted by Reeshet Possibly worth noting that you can activate Soulburn immediately before combat starts and then Harvest Soul. We do a short 5 4 3 2 1 countdown on our pulls and I pop Soulburn at 4 and Harvest Soul at 3 and then by the time the boss is attacking the tank I still have an instant cast Soulfire and 3 shards for later in the fight.
Harvest Soul has a chance to proc power torrent so would waste quite a bit of uptime if it procced. I'd rather hard cast during the tanks countdown.

 02/11/11, 7:11 PM #161 ♦ Carebare ::stare::     carebare Tauren Druid   Mal'Ganis The next person to post about the hp of the Monstrosity gets a 24 hour ban. This is the Destruction spec thread. Go to the public discussion area if you really feel like going on and on about it. i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes. [R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.
02/11/11, 7:14 PM   #162
Kuku
Von Kaiser

Human Warlock

Azgalor
 Originally Posted by Velocet Harvest Soul has a chance to proc power torrent so would waste quite a bit of uptime if it procced. I'd rather hard cast during the tanks countdown.
Hard casting an incinerate with an instant cast Soul Fire waiting might be more beneficial to the rest of your raid.

 02/13/11, 5:32 AM #163 • Meaning King Hippo     Meaning Orc Warlock   Mal'Ganis The line of thinking that started a page ago about not "wasting" power torrent (missing out on 2-3 seconds of a 12 second proc pre-pull) might have merit if people stop "guessing" and "feeling" and either break out the napkin math or fire up simcraft.
 02/17/11, 6:07 PM #164 Gilgrissom Glass Joe   Flipp Gnome Warlock   Blackmoore (EU) When planning my gear I had a hard time reaching the additional Immolate tick at 2589 haste rating without either gemming heavily for haste or swapping in the Stump of Time and I asked myself how much the extra tick is actually worth in DPS. To get that value I simmed my warlock with 2588 haste and 2589 (and a couple of other values close to it) haste and compared the DPS values. To reduce the influence of RNG (and since I expected that the DPS difference would be rather small) I ran all simulations with 100 000 iterations and removed all procs (trinkets, weapon enchant, cloak enchant). Values can be seen below. ```Haste | DPS | delta 2587 20 553 2588 20 554 1 2589 20 969 415 2590 20 970 1``` The simulation output can be found here: 2587, 2588, 2589, 2590 the configuration file can be found here (I only changed the gear_haste value for every pass) and I used the very latest Simcraft (build level 13623). Those values are obviously rather specific to the other stats of the profile, however they should give a first idea of how much other stats you can sacrifice to reach the extra tick. My interpretation would be that swapping in Stump of Time (a net loss of about 130 DPS to the BiS 359 trinket) is absolutely worth it. It even leaves you with another 290 stats worth of DPS you can "lose" and still come out on top. (Note that if you swap out 40 int you will not lose the DPS value of 40 int but instead will only lose the difference between the value of 40 int - the value of 40 haste). Conclusion: Go for the haste cap if you can reach it without losing more than maybe 100-150 int (this should be a very safe bet, could probably go up to even sacrificing 200 int or more). Last edited by Gilgrissom : 02/17/11 at 6:13 PM.
02/24/11, 12:55 AM   #165
Daellia
Von Kaiser

Orc Warlock

Lothar
 Crit is a straight 1% increase per 1% crit (up to a point).
Actually, 1% crit isn't even a 1% increase to damage done. For example, lets assume just for the sake of demonstration that you hit for 100 damage per spell and have a 20% crit chance. Over 100 attacks, assuming perfect statistical distribution, you'd deal 8000 damage non-crit and 4000 damage crit, for a total of 12000. If you raised your crit chance to 25% (5% increase), you deal 7500 damage non-crit and 5000 damage crit, for a total of 12500 damage. That's only a 12500 / 12000 = 4.17% increase to damage done (the ratio of 1% crit to X% damage scales down continuously as your crit chance increases).

That said, Mastery does the same thing, since it stacks additively with itself. 1 Mastery is not necessarily 1.35% increase to fire damage. For example, lets assume you have 12 Mastery already ('bout what I have). That's a 16.2% fire damage increase. If I were to gain an additional 1 Mastery, I'd have a 17.55% increase to fire damage done, for a total benefit of 1.1755 / 1.162 = 1.16% increase to fire damage done.

I do however share your confusion, as even accounting for the 3% increase to crit damage from the Burning Shadowspirit, that still leaves crit roughly 6.5% behind mastery in benefit. Given the fact that crit has a reduced benefit by default on Conflag due to its intrinsic 15% increased crit chance, and the fact that we have utterly zero effects that proc from crit (excluding trinkets and Mana Feed, which is honestly such a small increase in mana efficiency that I would think it can safely be ignored), I'm not sure I understand why Mastery is ranked below crit either.

 Elitist Jerks Destruction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)