AoE requires mana. Mana feed provides it passively while AoEing. Giving that up is a dps loss, what you gain in jinx is brought equally well by an affliction lock, boomkin (mushrooms), or unholy dk. If you run a 10man without one of those classes and AoE damage is holding you back, you should spec affliction or demo anyway, not resort to a modified destro build.

If you find yourself needing to aoe while destro, you should switch specs. I'm not on a computer with sim craft at the moment, but last time I ran that destro jinx build through sim raft it was around a 300 dps loss per point you take out of manafeed, putting the spec behind affliction in single target dps.

Still, that being said, if you find yourself moving enough to justify the extra life taps, the jinx destro build could work just fine to help the rest of your raid edge out the necessary aoe while you keep destro's strong single target and burst potential.

With the inclusion of haste in our Doomguards on simulationcraft, for many destruction locks our scale factors are showing haste as our second best secondary stat after mastery and even some as our best stat, after the 2681 threshold is reached. I am assuming this is because of additional thresholds that grant our DG additional casts in his duration. Does anybody happen to know what these thresholds are? Additionally since on many fights where we are only able to cast DG once due to the fight length, what would these thresholds be with ICM procced since we can virtually guarantee that it will be procced at the start of the fight for our first doomguard?

Doomguard's are not affected by haste, they always have the same amount of casts when standing still.

They aren't affected by percentage-based haste modifiers such as Wrath of Air or heroism. They do however snapshot your haste when they are summoned. That's not what this discussion is about. I did however take it upon myself to create a spreadsheet illustrating the haste points from your gear alone (i.e. from your haste RATING) at which the doomguard gains an additional cast in his duration here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VFQRERFd1dpRVE

I did the tests with the BIS profile of the SIMCRAFT and that build (the first one) does give an increase of aprox. 65 dps.
The build with 2 points in doom and gloom isn't factible.

I'm about 99% sure he does cast more with haste because when I summon him with ICM up he definitely casts more doombolts. However the doomguard AI is garbage and I revised my post on MMOC to reflect a secondary use the spreadsheet serves:

Anyone now actually run out of mana in fights? I used to never go below 95% in just about any fight, I ran OOM in several fights today. Guessing we had a bug they hotfixed?

Anyone else having issues with Bane of Havoc being on a target, but not delivering any damage ?

Noticed it on Hagara HC (DPSing one pillar, having Havoc placed on another pillar, while standing in the middle). Today I monitored it, and after casting BOH for the 4th time on the same pillar, it finally started to actually deal damage.

I do not believe it is a range issue, as on Morchok HC, I have seen BOH work fine over much longer distances.
But also on this fight, I have occasionally experienced the same problem: BOH is cast on the Boss, is shown as debuff, but doesn't contribute any damage.

My fellow Warlocks in our guild have experienced the same, but we couldn't figure out what the reason might be, and how to prevent this. Ideas anybody ??

From what I've experienced, the issue arises when you put BoH on something you have already damaged. It works perfectly fine for me, when it is the first thing I apply to any target, but if I do anything else first, it seems to bug out. I haven't gone about testing it much, since my warlock is my 3rd alt, but it is always working for me, if I apply BoH first.

It's an annoying bug, nonetheless.

I have been dealing with this as well. Mainly on Zonozz. My usual habit is to CoE > BoH a tentacle at the start of the phase. But yeah.. I sometimes have to reapply it MANY times. I even stopped using my /focus /targetlasttarget macro with it.

I will test the damage theory.. or in my case change the rotation to BoH > CoE. Sounds promising and I know that occasionally it works first time... i've just not been able to put my finger on why.

Well, CoE is warlock specific. So, yours will disappear if another lock puts his up which wouldn't matter anyway. As far as BoH not responding to damage done to other targets? I have no idea, I have never had that problem before. Could you possibly be casting CoD by mistake on your baned target?

I doubt anyone would be THAT dumb to overwrite BOH with BOD and then be surprised to not have BOH deal damage. And are you sure you never had that problem before ? I'd bet you just never checked / noticed ?

E.g. Morchok HC among the first things I do after the Pull, is throwing up BOH on Morchok, as I am usually in the "left" group who is then DPSing the "twin". About half of the time, by the end of the fight, BOH has done close to 1,5 Mio Dmg. In other fights, it is exactly 0 - and my DPS drops to the low 30s instead of ~40k. It really stinks and it would be nice to have an explanation.

I will try the "apply BOH before anything else" idea but am not convinced.
E.g. I never noticed such a behaviour during the Nefarian encounter where I would switch BOD/BOH between Nef and Ony several times. Possible this bug was introduced with 4.2 or 4.3 patch ?

True Story.

Precisely what happened to me last week now that you mention it.

I also believe it to be a recent bug. Best example I have is from BoT the dragons (drawing a blank on their names). I made a macro for BoH that would apply BoH, Focus the target, then /targetlasttarget. Basically making it very simple to swap back and forth and apply BoH. This worked perfectly on any & every boss (as best i recall) until Dragon Soul.

My solution recently has been to apply BoH.. then look for the little dmg numbers.. if nothing.. then re-apply. I still believe that to be higher dps than going without BoH at all.

I COULD be wrong about the following but I think this might provide some proof/insight:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (click the Buffs cast tab, then click the # sign next to Bane of Havoc to view graph.)

Thats a graph that shows the Zonozz fight. It shows 4 periods where BoH was "active" on a target. It also says I cast BoH 6 times. During the 3rd phase where BoH was active I don't see the dps spike that I would expect to see based on the other phases. (could also be me just screwing up my rotation)

Another possibility is that the first BoH I applied did not take as the times don't appear to line up when I compare the link above with the link below.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

(we do 5 stacks each time... hence why we have such a stupidly slow kill time. But it works for us considering we usually only have 2 ranged dps)

[quote=Dregg;2101359]I doubt anyone would be THAT dumb to overwrite BOH with BOD and then be surprised to not have BOH deal damage. And are you sure you never had that problem before ? I'd bet you just never checked / noticed ?

Well honestly I don't see any other explanation. The 2 other locks that I raid with are both primary Destruction and have not experienced any problems with damage being distributed via BoH. We go over logs pretty thoroughly as well and haven't noticed any problems since we frequent the ej forums a lot and noticed this issue being brought up. I am just giving my 2 cents on the issue.

I've had BoH not working for me several times. Even managed to recreate it several times on dummies. So the bug do exsist. As far as I've noticed it doesn't matter if you have damaged it before, BoH just decides it won't work and only thing you can do is reapply it.

This is a known issue. BoH on Morchok, not on Kohcrom is working well. So get in the Kohcrom team.

Tested it more this week. It appears although I could have missed something.. that as long as BoH is the first spell YOU cast on the target.. it works. Once I even noticed that rathrak went off on a target next to the one i was about to bane.. thus spreading the debuff to that target which caused the BoH I applied seconds later to not work.

Can anyone else test/confirm/deny that applying BoH FIRST does indeed work consistently? So far so good for me.

p.s. I believe I even have video of the rathrak incident. I will try to crop it and provide a link.

Still trying to recreate this and having no luck. I've talked to quite a few locks on my server and no one has had any problems with this. So it seems it is not a class wide issue.

New to Destruction. I'm still trying to figure out where exactly should I place Bane of Havok in different encounters.

Obvious Kochrom is obvious. But besides that.

Yor'Sahj when I'm AoEing the black adds is obvious too, but should I put it on the fat guy when I'm switching into the drops, or should I leave Bane of Doom on him and Agony the drop?

Havoking the last pillar on Hagara frost phase is logical too, as is havoking the second boulder when two raid members are frozen.

Havoking DW's soon to be cadaver on madness: okay too.

Ultraxion: um. Yeah. Nothing to see here.

But what about the rest? Havok on Blackthorn, okay, but what about the adds - am I supposed to havok the second dragon?

Oh, and the spine. Spine's a mess.

I recommend for Blackhorn that you put BoH on Goriona in the beginning. It will equal about 750k damage on Goriona.

That works on normal on hc Havoc on Blackhorn is the way to go. And about Havoc working on Morchok, now 3 tickets later it's said to be a known bug and it will be fixed in "next" patch... Also I'm not 100% sure about this but same bug seem to occur on Madness if there is one platform between you and tentancle with havoc...