Destruction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release) - Page 20

Chukken · 12/08/11, 9:06 PM

Hi, say I was wondering how you said haste is the priority until 2681 "2681 Haste rating (2527 rating for Goblins) with full raid buffs", does haste rating with full raid buffs mean you want to hit 2681 haste as a baste rating or you want to hit 2681 including DI and air totem?

CharodeyGarona · 12/08/11, 9:16 PM

Originally Posted by Chukken

Hi, say I was wondering how you said haste is the priority until 2681 "2681 Haste rating (2527 rating for Goblins) with full raid buffs", does haste rating with full raid buffs mean you want to hit 2681 haste as a baste rating or you want to hit 2681 including DI and air totem?

DI and totem don't change your haste rating. Instead, they grant a specific amount of haste (such as 3% for DI).

CharodeyGarona · 12/08/11, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by Medvayne

I guess I'm still not clear as to what it is exactly, I have 20.44% (2618) haste with no buffs. Medvayne @ Emerald Dream - Game - World of Warcraft So, from the looks of it with the 2618 I am there, but I'm not at 30% haste, so I'm not too sure what this means. It's probably me not having a full understanding of it all, but I don't quite understand why that 2618 haste is not converting to 30% roughly. Check out that link to my armory and I think you will see what I am talking about.

I wouldn't necessarily think about it in terms of memorizing specific cut-offs without understanding what they are or how they were obtained, especially when the underlying math is easy. All haste buffs stack multiplicatively (but all haste rating buffs stack additively and result in a single haste buff that then gets stack multiplicatively with others). You need 30% haste. With 3% from DI and 5% from totem, you need 1.3 / 1.03 / 1.05 = 1.2020 haste. So if your unbuffed haste shows up as 20.44%, you're a bit above the threshold. Or you can go in the opposite direction - start with your 20.44% haste and figure what your raid-buffed haste would be - 1.2044 * 1.03 * 1.05 = 1.3026, so you'll be at 30.26% haste, slightly above the 30% you're looking for.

• Zakalwe · 12/09/11, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by CharodeyGarona

I wouldn't necessarily think about it in terms of memorizing specific cut-offs without understanding what they are or how they were obtained, especially when the underlying math is easy. All haste buffs stack multiplicatively (but all haste rating buffs stack additively and result in a single haste buff that then gets stack multiplicatively with others). You need 30% haste. With 3% from DI and 5% from totem, you need 1.3 / 1.03 / 1.05 = 1.2020 haste. So if your unbuffed haste shows up as 20.44%, you're a bit above the threshold. Or you can go in the opposite direction - start with your 20.44% haste and figure what your raid-buffed haste would be - 1.2044 * 1.03 * 1.05 = 1.3026, so you'll be at 30.26% haste, slightly above the 30% you're looking for.

No. The exact number you need is not 30% haste, it's 30.010840%. If you're at 2588 haste rating, for instance, you'll be below the threshold but your unbuffed haste is 20.209725%.

netherflame · 12/10/11, 1:40 PM

Anyone mind explaining the trinket selection in the BiS gear setups, I thought I remember hearing that corrupted mind procs give so much haste that they handcuff us especially during bloodlust. On the simcraft thread it also states that the trinket is very low on the list but that is because it doesn't take passive stats into account, so is there any way we can develop a chart that will take those stats into account?

netsach · 12/10/11, 2:47 PM

The numbers provided in the thread estimate the proc only.

In case of a trinket with primary stats on it, and a proc evaluating to 1500 and 300 int on it (int weighted 3.1), then the "whole" trinket would estimate to 1500 + 300 * 3.1 = 2430.

Let's say another trinket's proc estimates to 2000 dps. And trinket has 300 mastery on it (with a example weight of 1.5) which you will reforge to crit (with an example weight of 2.1). The total dps gain of the trinket will be : T = 2000 + 300 * (0.4 * 2.1 + 0.6 * 1.5) = 2522.

That's why the EJ thread only estimates proc : as far as trinkets with stats on them can have it reforged to anything, it's "total value" depends from how you reforge it (if you do) AND your personnal particular stat weights.

angaroth · 12/10/11, 9:35 PM

Note that Procs are also rated based on scale factors. Mastery or Haste or Crit procs will be worth different things for different people.

Jmickey · 12/13/11, 11:38 PM

The reason the haste proc trinket is BiS is because you will generally want to recast Immolate when it procs to provide an tick, also buffing conflag.

PutressENJIN · 12/15/11, 10:57 AM

I am curious as to why Lightning Rod - Item - World of Warcraft would be bis. I can guess that being able to reforge is a plus compared to a proc from lets say Ti'tahk, the Steps of Time - Item - World of Warcraft

CharodeyGarona · 12/15/11, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by PutressENJIN

I am curious as to why Lightning Rod - Item - World of Warcraft would be bis. I can guess that being able to reforge is a plus compared to a proc from lets say Ti'tahk, the Steps of Time - Item - World of Warcraft

One reason is that Ti'tahk trades too much for the proc - specifically, it trades sockets as well as both secondary stats. That proc may not be worth as much as the two possibly red sockets, a socket bonus, and two secondary stats would be worth for an ilvl 416 item.

oldboy_lock · 12/20/11, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jmickey

The reason the haste proc trinket is BiS is because you will generally want to recast Immolate when it procs to provide an tick, also buffing conflag.

If you have the insignia would it be worth it to put Fel Flame into the rotation so that you keep the higher-haste immolate running for longer? I tried this a few nights ago working it in after Backdraft is used up. Depending on flight time of Fel Flame I was able to keep (what i think) was an extended immolate rolling for an extra 30-40 seconds, and my dps did seem to increase. i suck at parsing logs, but this was the fight i first started to try it on:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

maybe someone with more skill could see if i am crazy or not.

zinnin · 12/20/11, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by oldboy_lock

If you have the insignia would it be worth it to put Fel Flame into the rotation so that you keep the higher-haste immolate running for longer? I tried this a few nights ago working it in after Backdraft is used up. Depending on flight time of Fel Flame I was able to keep (what i think) was an extended immolate rolling for an extra 30-40 seconds, and my dps did seem to increase. i suck at parsing logs, but this was the fight i first started to try it on:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

maybe someone with more skill could see if i am crazy or not.

When you Fel flame to increase the duration it still updates the dot with your current stats so you would still have to fel flame before the haste buff fell off. Since the haste buff is 20 seconds, you can cast immolate right when it procs and then immolate should fall off right before the buff ends and you can recast it then. You can easily get 2 full duration immolates with the buff without messing around with fel flame. Since Immolate has an initial damage component to it, you will basically never gain anything from using fel flame instead of just recasting immolate.

Morninglory · 12/21/11, 8:40 AM

Depending on flight time of Fel Flame I was able to keep (what i think) was an extended immolate rolling for an extra 30-40 seconds

What you are supposing is that Fel Flame actually extends the duration of immolate beyond it's maximum duration plus one tick, which it does not. You can't spam it indefinitely to make your immolate run up to infinity.

giry · 12/30/11, 1:57 AM

Originally Posted by CharodeyGarona

One reason is that Ti'tahk trades too much for the proc - specifically, it trades sockets as well as both secondary stats. That proc may not be worth as much as the two possibly red sockets, a socket bonus, and two secondary stats would be worth for an ilvl 416 item.

You can still use Ti'tahk to "pre pot" the buff then switch to Rod and have ~10 sec of haste buff depending on your luck i`m curently testing this but don`t know when i will have the time to do more with this year ending

Curently i`m using Soul Link spam to proc the staff then switch to rod then only problem is that sometimes you can`t proc it in ~5-6 sec before pull, what i`m not sure if we can switch staffs during combat w/o getting a cd on the proc (same when we switch trinkets). i will post more when i will have the time to test.

Giry

Oggs · 01/17/12, 4:24 PM

Doing some simulationcraft tests, this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft results in an increase of 30 dps on my character. This probably needs chaos bolt to be cast on CD for the soul leech procs. I also think that perhaps in heroic DS gear having 2 points in doom and gloom could be done without any GCD wasted on life tap, i'll probably do some tests some day on my character if i get the gear.

I was wondering too if this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft won't be better than single target one in encounters where destruction does good and AOE is needed. I would appreciate your thoughts about that.