Destruction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release) - Page 21

turturin · 01/18/12, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Oggs

I was wondering too if this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft won't be better than single target one in encounters where destruction does good and AOE is needed. I would appreciate your thoughts about that.

AoE requires mana. Mana feed provides it passively while AoEing. Giving that up is a dps loss, what you gain in jinx is brought equally well by an affliction lock, boomkin (mushrooms), or unholy dk. If you run a 10man without one of those classes and AoE damage is holding you back, you should spec affliction or demo anyway, not resort to a modified destro build.

Pawo · 01/19/12, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by turturin

AoE requires mana. Mana feed provides it passively while AoEing. Giving that up is a dps loss, what you gain in jinx is brought equally well by an affliction lock, boomkin (mushrooms), or unholy dk. If you run a 10man without one of those classes and AoE damage is holding you back, you should spec affliction or demo anyway, not resort to a modified destro build.

If you find yourself needing to aoe while destro, you should switch specs. I'm not on a computer with sim craft at the moment, but last time I ran that destro jinx build through sim raft it was around a 300 dps loss per point you take out of manafeed, putting the spec behind affliction in single target dps.

Still, that being said, if you find yourself moving enough to justify the extra life taps, the jinx destro build could work just fine to help the rest of your raid edge out the necessary aoe while you keep destro's strong single target and burst potential.

Gakpad · 01/23/12, 3:53 PM

With the inclusion of haste in our Doomguards on simulationcraft, for many destruction locks our scale factors are showing haste as our second best secondary stat after mastery and even some as our best stat, after the 2681 threshold is reached. I am assuming this is because of additional thresholds that grant our DG additional casts in his duration. Does anybody happen to know what these thresholds are? Additionally since on many fights where we are only able to cast DG once due to the fight length, what would these thresholds be with ICM procced since we can virtually guarantee that it will be procced at the start of the fight for our first doomguard?

Klavarnae · 01/24/12, 12:21 AM

Doomguard's are not affected by haste, they always have the same amount of casts when standing still.

Gakpad · 01/24/12, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Klavarnae

Doomguard's are not affected by haste, they always have the same amount of casts when standing still.

They aren't affected by percentage-based haste modifiers such as Wrath of Air or heroism. They do however snapshot your haste when they are summoned. That's not what this discussion is about. I did however take it upon myself to create a spreadsheet illustrating the haste points from your gear alone (i.e. from your haste RATING) at which the doomguard gains an additional cast in his duration here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VFQRERFd1dpRVE

Oggs · 01/24/12, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Oggs

Doing some simulationcraft tests, this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft results in an increase of 30 dps on my character. This probably needs chaos bolt to be cast on CD for the soul leech procs. I also think that perhaps in heroic DS gear having 2 points in doom and gloom could be done without any GCD wasted on life tap, i'll probably do some tests some day on my character if i get the gear.

I did the tests with the BIS profile of the SIMCRAFT and that build (the first one) does give an increase of aprox. 65 dps.
The build with 2 points in doom and gloom isn't factible.

Klavarnae · 01/24/12, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gakpad

They aren't affected by percentage-based haste modifiers such as Wrath of Air or heroism. They do however snapshot your haste when they are summoned. That's not what this discussion is about. I did however take it upon myself to create a spreadsheet illustrating the haste points from your gear alone (i.e. from your haste RATING) at which the doomguard gains an additional cast in his duration here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VFQRERFd1dpRVE

You could be right and I could be wrong on this, but I remember reading somewhere on these forums (I think a post from zakalwe) that doomguards will cast faster doom bolts with haste rating, but they will not cast another doom bolt before 3 seconds, hence there will always be 3 seconds between doomguard casts. Again, I could be wrong, this is just my understanding of the things I've read on these forums.

Gakpad · 01/24/12, 7:55 PM

Originally Posted by Klavarnae

You could be right and I could be wrong on this, but I remember reading somewhere on these forums (I think a post from zakalwe) that doomguards will cast faster doom bolts with haste rating, but they will not cast another doom bolt before 3 seconds, hence there will always be 3 seconds between doomguard casts. Again, I could be wrong, this is just my understanding of the things I've read on these forums.

I'm about 99% sure he does cast more with haste because when I summon him with ICM up he definitely casts more doombolts. However the doomguard AI is garbage and I revised my post on MMOC to reflect a secondary use the spreadsheet serves:

While this would all be well and dandy if the Doomguard chain casted and began to cast the exact moment he was summoned, he unfortunately does not. He waits in between casts, and he doesn't start casting immediately when summoned. Therefore, these haste breakpoints for him are realistically not going to be something you can reliably gear for since there's no way to predict how much time he'll actually spend casting each time you summon him.

We can, however, use this information on his haste breakpoints when deciding how to follow simulated stat weightings as destro past 2681 haste. Since SimulationCraft assumes the Doomguard AI is perfect, if you are close to any of these thresholds past 2681 haste, it will still show haste as a good (if not your best) stat. This is a bit misleading because in practice, what simcraft is showing as a dps gain is not because of the Doomguards faulty AI. So my official recommendation would be to ignore haste once you reach 2681 and move it to the back of your priority in terms of secondary stats, just as it was before simcraft implemented the Doomguard scaling with haste.

agressiv · 02/01/12, 9:46 PM

Anyone now actually run out of mana in fights? I used to never go below 95% in just about any fight, I ran OOM in several fights today. Guessing we had a bug they hotfixed?

Dregg · 02/15/12, 6:35 PM

Anyone else having issues with Bane of Havoc being on a target, but not delivering any damage ?

Noticed it on Hagara HC (DPSing one pillar, having Havoc placed on another pillar, while standing in the middle). Today I monitored it, and after casting BOH for the 4th time on the same pillar, it finally started to actually deal damage.

I do not believe it is a range issue, as on Morchok HC, I have seen BOH work fine over much longer distances.
But also on this fight, I have occasionally experienced the same problem: BOH is cast on the Boss, is shown as debuff, but doesn't contribute any damage.

My fellow Warlocks in our guild have experienced the same, but we couldn't figure out what the reason might be, and how to prevent this. Ideas anybody ??

Grimmarg · 02/16/12, 5:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dregg

Anyone else having issues with Bane of Havoc being on a target, but not delivering any damage ?

Noticed it on Hagara HC (DPSing one pillar, having Havoc placed on another pillar, while standing in the middle). Today I monitored it, and after casting BOH for the 4th time on the same pillar, it finally started to actually deal damage.

I do not believe it is a range issue, as on Morchok HC, I have seen BOH work fine over much longer distances.
But also on this fight, I have occasionally experienced the same problem: BOH is cast on the Boss, is shown as debuff, but doesn't contribute any damage.

My fellow Warlocks in our guild have experienced the same, but we couldn't figure out what the reason might be, and how to prevent this. Ideas anybody ??

From what I've experienced, the issue arises when you put BoH on something you have already damaged. It works perfectly fine for me, when it is the first thing I apply to any target, but if I do anything else first, it seems to bug out. I haven't gone about testing it much, since my warlock is my 3rd alt, but it is always working for me, if I apply BoH first.

It's an annoying bug, nonetheless.

Mattameus · 02/17/12, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by Dregg

Anyone else having issues with Bane of Havoc being on a target, but not delivering any damage ?

I do not believe it is a range issue

My fellow Warlocks in our guild have experienced the same, but we couldn't figure out what the reason might be, and how to prevent this. Ideas anybody ??

I have been dealing with this as well. Mainly on Zonozz. My usual habit is to CoE > BoH a tentacle at the start of the phase. But yeah.. I sometimes have to reapply it MANY times. I even stopped using my /focus /targetlasttarget macro with it.

I will test the damage theory.. or in my case change the rotation to BoH > CoE. Sounds promising and I know that occasionally it works first time... i've just not been able to put my finger on why.

FlyingDonkey · 02/17/12, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by Gakpad

They aren't affected by percentage-based haste modifiers such as Wrath of Air or heroism. They do however snapshot your haste when they are summoned.

"In most cases the best way to achieve this is to simply summon your doomguard ~10-12 seconds into the fight as all procs are off cooldown and available before the pull."

PutressENJIN · 02/17/12, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mattameus

I have been dealing with this as well. Mainly on Zonozz. My usual habit is to CoE > BoH a tentacle at the start of the phase. But yeah.. I sometimes have to reapply it MANY times. I even stopped using my /focus /targetlasttarget macro with it.

I will test the damage theory.. or in my case change the rotation to BoH > CoE. Sounds promising and I know that occasionally it works first time... i've just not been able to put my finger on why.

Well, CoE is warlock specific. So, yours will disappear if another lock puts his up which wouldn't matter anyway. As far as BoH not responding to damage done to other targets? I have no idea, I have never had that problem before. Could you possibly be casting CoD by mistake on your baned target?

Dregg · 02/17/12, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by PutressENJIN

As far as BoH not responding to damage done to other targets? I have no idea, I have never had that problem before. Could you possibly be casting CoD by mistake on your baned target?

I doubt anyone would be THAT dumb to overwrite BOH with BOD and then be surprised to not have BOH deal damage. And are you sure you never had that problem before ? I'd bet you just never checked / noticed ?

E.g. Morchok HC among the first things I do after the Pull, is throwing up BOH on Morchok, as I am usually in the "left" group who is then DPSing the "twin". About half of the time, by the end of the fight, BOH has done close to 1,5 Mio Dmg. In other fights, it is exactly 0 - and my DPS drops to the low 30s instead of ~40k. It really stinks and it would be nice to have an explanation.

I will try the "apply BOH before anything else" idea but am not convinced.
E.g. I never noticed such a behaviour during the Nefarian encounter where I would switch BOD/BOH between Nef and Ony several times. Possible this bug was introduced with 4.2 or 4.3 patch ?