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Old 01/01/11, 8:19 PM   #61
clavarnway
Don Flamenco
 
clavarnway's Avatar
 
Orc Warlock
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Jmickey View Post
No, this macro is intended to assist in accounting for latency and other delays and to keep the Imp casting 100% of the time. If you wish to use the macro to cause the Imp to begin casting you would use:

#showtooltip SPELLNAME
/petattack [target=target, exists]
/cast [@pettarget, exists] Firebolt
/cast SPELLNAME
This line:

/petattack [target=target, exists]
Is the line that will cause the imp to start attacking. The rule is to prevent the macro causing you to auto target mobs if you current target dies and have you imp begin attacking it.
I noticed that if you mash your abilities so they cast ASAP, repeatedly hitting this macro will result in your Imp stopping and recasting Firebolt repeatedly. Is there a way to control your imp with your DPS spells without having him reset his cast bar if you spam your keys? I've checked macro sites but I can't find anything that fits what I'm describing. I know of a command that casts a channeled spell, and won't recast if you are currently channeling it, but I can't find anything that works for cast time spells.


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Old 01/01/11, 10:24 PM   #62
Ebar
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by clavarnway View Post
I noticed that if you mash your abilities so they cast ASAP, repeatedly hitting this macro will result in your Imp stopping and recasting Firebolt repeatedly. Is there a way to control your imp with your DPS spells without having him reset his cast bar if you spam your keys? I've checked macro sites but I can't find anything that fits what I'm describing. I know of a command that casts a channeled spell, and won't recast if you are currently channeling it, but I can't find anything that works for cast time spells.
I had the same problem and finally found this macro that works:

#showtooltip SPELLNAME
/petattack [target=pettarget,noexists] target
/cast [@pettarget, exists] Firebolt
/cast SPELLNAME

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Old 01/02/11, 2:07 AM   #63
Zhil
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
Originally Posted by LilPixie View Post
First, thanks for the great guide Jmickey.

Second, most people are really concerned with the added advantages of reaching the haste thresholds in this expansion, but for warlocks still juggling a majority of blue pieces on their character, reaching those thresholds without sacrificing hit and crit is practically impossible. Is there any way of veering the discussion towards a manageable, easiER to attain ratio between haste and crit? (Sacrificing hit is off the table at this point, for raiding purposes, imo.)
Thanks (and I apologize in advance if this is a retarded post.)
This is what I'm confused about also. The 30% threshold is easy to reach, even in blues. Should we stop reforging/gemming into haste at this point and go for crit - Seeing as the 50% threshold is probably not going to be available until 359/372 gear sets?

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Old 01/02/11, 3:56 AM   #64
marky111
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Nazgrel (EU)
Originally Posted by Zhil View Post
This is what I'm confused about also. The 30% threshold is easy to reach, even in blues. Should we stop reforging/gemming into haste at this point and go for crit - Seeing as the 50% threshold is probably not going to be available until 359/372 gear sets?
That's the way to do it. For Destruction and Demonology Speccs.

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Old 01/02/11, 8:12 AM   #65
Aeiri
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Blood Furnace
It makes sense to think that way. However, I simcrafted my gear(pretty much in between the 2 thresholds) and it resulted in a dps increase pretty much across the board to keep gemming/reforging for haste instead of crit. I would recommend taking the time to test your gear as this could just be due to my setup.

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Old 01/02/11, 10:24 AM   #66
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Aeiri View Post
It makes sense to think that way. However, I simcrafted my gear(pretty much in between the 2 thresholds) and it resulted in a dps increase pretty much across the board to keep gemming/reforging for haste instead of crit. I would recommend taking the time to test your gear as this could just be due to my setup.
I don't get these results, my haste and crit values keep changing, enough so that crit sometimes is more valued than haste and the other way around, leading me to the conclusion that one shouldn't ignore either stat. As for which one is better in any given situation, it seems to change for almost every gem.

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Old 01/02/11, 12:16 PM   #67
FlyingDonkey
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Suramar (EU)
2 things I'd like to have your view on:

- The debate on haste seems kinda pointless to me for two reasons: first as destruction lock, haste is the less efficient stat accoding to simulationcraft (for high gear), and thus should be reforged as much as possible. Second, because now DOTs must be refreshed while we had to let them "fall" before. Sure, on raid situation, you'll have to switch target, thus reaching some cap and having a few more ticks would help, but that also means losing on other, more valuable, stats.

- The trinket situation. It's tricky. I don't get why blizzard keeps on having different hidden ICD, it is VERY annoying. Anyway, I see Gale of Shadows (no icd) and Theralion's Mirror (100s icd, 10% proc) are BiS for us. But how can Gale of Shadows can be superior to Darkmoon Card: Volcano (45s icd, 30%)? The main stat of Volcano is superior to Gale and the proc too. Gale gives you 340sp, while Volcano gives you (1600 Intel x ~24% uptime =) 384 intel (averaged of course).
I do not consider the fire damage on Volcano because it seems low to me (0.9-1.5k damage every 50s is low even with our mastery). Anyway, it proves my point further.

Thanks for reading.

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Old 01/02/11, 12:33 PM   #68
Saufsoldat
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Madmortem (EU)
Originally Posted by FlyingDonkey View Post
2 things I'd like to have your view on:

- The debate on haste seems kinda pointless to me for two reasons: first as destruction lock, haste is the less efficient stat accoding to simulationcraft (for high gear), and thus should be reforged as much as possible. Second, because now DOTs must be refreshed while we had to let them "fall" before. Sure, on raid situation, you'll have to switch target, thus reaching some cap and having a few more ticks would help, but that also means losing on other, more valuable, stats.

- The trinket situation. It's tricky. I don't get why blizzard keeps on having different hidden ICD, it is VERY annoying. Anyway, I see Gale of Shadows (no icd) and Theralion's Mirror (100s icd, 10% proc) are BiS for us. But how can Gale of Shadows can be superior to Darkmoon Card: Volcano (45s icd, 30%)? The main stat of Volcano is superior to Gale and the proc too. Gale gives you 340sp, while Volcano gives you (1600 Intel x ~24% uptime =) 384 intel (averaged of course).
I do not consider the fire damage on Volcano because it seems low to me (0.9-1.5k damage every 50s is low even with our mastery). Anyway, it proves my point further.

Thanks for reading.
Firstly, the reason why haste loses so much of its value in BiS gear is because you've reached the 50% threshold, that allows Immolate to gain an extra tick and caps the GCD at 1sec. Reaching that threshold is extremely valuable to your DPS and the value of Haste goes through the roof when you're about to reach that point. However, when you're in-between two thresholds the value of haste is debatable. Crit seems a little better, but it seems like too much effort (to me) to enchant, gem and reforge everything for crit until my gear has reached a state at which it would be possible to reach 50% haste by enchanting, gemming and reforging everything for haste. If you're willing to walk the extra mile, go ahead and shoot for crit as long as you don't have access to a lot of epics.

Gale of Shadows is an extremely good trinket because it has close to 100% uptime and because Haste is a very important stat to us, but I'll agree that Volcano is a lot better. Also, the fire damage component appears to scale with both Spell Power and Mastery (being fire damage), so you should not completely neglect it.

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Old 01/02/11, 1:03 PM   #69
FlyingDonkey
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Suramar (EU)
Originally Posted by Saufsoldat View Post
Firstly, the reason why haste loses so much of its value in BiS gear is because you've reached the 50% threshold, that allows Immolate to gain an extra tick and caps the GCD at 1sec. Reaching that threshold is extremely valuable to your DPS and the value of Haste goes through the roof when you're about to reach that point. However, when you're in-between two thresholds the value of haste is debatable. Crit seems a little better, but it seems like too much effort (to me) to enchant, gem and reforge everything for crit until my gear has reached a state at which it would be possible to reach 50% haste by enchanting, gemming and reforging everything for haste. If you're willing to walk the extra mile, go ahead and shoot for crit as long as you don't have access to a lot of epics.

Gale of Shadows is an extremely good trinket because it has close to 100% uptime and because Haste is a very important stat to us, but I'll agree that Volcano is a lot better. Also, the fire damage component appears to scale with both Spell Power and Mastery (being fire damage), so you should not completely neglect it.
I clearly see your point, but if the DOTs work the way I understood, then again, you have to refresh DOTs before they "disappear". You gain an extra tick only if you let your DOT fall and if you're doing so, you're doing it wrong (except when you must change target of course)
But maybe, I'm just mistaken about how the DOTs works in cata...

About the Gale, we agree, it's an amazing trinket, just not better than Volcano. And I didn't know about the scaling of the Volcano fire damage, thanks for that.

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Old 01/02/11, 1:24 PM   #70
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Saufsoldat View Post
Also, the fire damage component appears to scale with both Spell Power and Mastery (being fire damage), so you should not completely neglect it.
Where do you get the idea that it scales with spell power? Trinket procs usually don't.

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Old 01/02/11, 1:49 PM   #71
Innulock
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by FlyingDonkey View Post
I clearly see your point, but if the DOTs work the way I understood, then again, you have to refresh DOTs before they "disappear". You gain an extra tick only if you let your DOT fall and if you're doing so, you're doing it wrong (except when you must change target of course)
If you get an extra dot tick, you refresh your dot one tick later, here is an example to show how much dps gain this effect alone gives you:

1) Immolate @ 9.999...% haste = 5 ticks 2.7272 sec/tick

82 second fight: 30 ticks= 6 immolate casts

2) Immolate @ 10% haste= 6 ticks 2.727272 sec/tick

82 second fight= 30 ticks= 5 immolate casts

getting over the cap gained you 1.36sec (=1.5/1.10) extra cast time you can spend on incinerate or something else in 82 seconds time, which is actually quite a big dps boost. This is NOT counting the extra dmg you get on conflagrate, and is a dps gain you get on every dot in every spec when you get to a haste point where the dot gains an extra tick.

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Old 01/02/11, 2:12 PM   #72
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Where do you get the idea that it scales with spell power? Trinket procs usually don't.
It does, at least according to the tooltip. Going from unbuffed to having fel armor on increased the tooltip stated damage by around 150 (not quite sure about the number), so I'd assume it scales with sp as well as mastery as mine did more than any other in the guild according to tooltip and I'm the only one with a mastery that would affect the proc.

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Old 01/02/11, 2:33 PM   #73
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Naforce View Post
It does, at least according to the tooltip. Going from unbuffed to having fel armor on increased the tooltip stated damage by around 150 (not quite sure about the number), so I'd assume it scales with sp as well as mastery as mine did more than any other in the guild according to tooltip and I'm the only one with a mastery that would affect the proc.
I'd love to see this confirmed via combat log - tooltips are notoriously unreliable.

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Old 01/02/11, 2:54 PM   #74
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
I'd love to see this confirmed via combat log - tooltips are notoriously unreliable.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis there, as you can see mine did a lot more average than the others, both hit and crit!

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Old 01/02/11, 3:02 PM   #75
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Oh I'm not disputing the mastery thing - that's pretty universal among these discharge proc trinkets. The unusual thing is the spell power scaling.

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