Destruction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release) - Page 7

Ezzergeezer · 01/07/11, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cangiz

...
Anyways, is there any chance we can add a section for the multiple uses of Bane of Havoc? There are some very valuable things you can do with this talent.

Eg.
Magmaw - Place it on him as the adds spawn, AOE. Place it on the head just before it dissapears,
...

I'd be very interested to know if placing BoH works when placed on the head and the head is no longer targetable. I've noticed CoE still being up when the head came avaialable for the 2nd time, but it never occured to me to keep BoH on the head as I normally reapply it to the body when AoEing the adds.

Considering the head takes double damage this would be a very nice boost.

Aristeides · 01/07/11, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ezzergeezer

I'd be very interested to know if placing BoH works when placed on the head and the head is no longer targetable. I've noticed CoE still being up when the head came avaialable for the 2nd time, but it never occured to me to keep BoH on the head as I normally reapply it to the body when AoEing the adds.

Considering the head takes double damage this would be a very nice boost.

This does work. Here is a recent 10 man log in which I do this (I just kept BoH of Magmaw the entire time as I figured applying it once at the start of the fight would be better than spending gcds switching between it and BoD between adds and slump phases): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Talon · 01/07/11, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by Aristeides

This does work. Here is a recent 10 man log in which I do this (I just kept BoH of Magmaw the entire time as I figured applying it once at the start of the fight would be better than spending gcds switching between it and BoD between adds and slump phases): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I'm pretty sure BoH is capped at 15% of the damage you do. So the head won't take anymore damage than the body would with BoH on it. But, if you Bane the body while your attacking the head the body will take the inflated damage from attacking the head. Since the body and the head's hp are linked it would be best to put BoH on the body while he's slumped. Also if you CoD(or refresh it) the head right before it goes back up it should be falling off around the time he's going to be slumped again. Which would deal double damage to the head which would be ~30% of what a normal CoD would hit for.

Alduin · 01/08/11, 3:51 AM

Originally Posted by Talon

I'm pretty sure BoH is capped at 15% of the damage you do. So the head won't take anymore damage than the body would with BoH on it. But, if you Bane the body while your attacking the head the body will take the inflated damage from attacking the head. Since the body and the head's hp are linked it would be best to put BoH on the body while he's slumped. Also if you CoD(or refresh it) the head right before it goes back up it should be falling off around the time he's going to be slumped again. Which would deal double damage to the head which would be ~30% of what a normal CoD would hit for.

The problem with using BoD on the head before it goes up is, that the Imp can't attack it (he stands around) and that the head does not take any damage from bombing the adds (which is alot more than 1min BoD damage). So it would be best to use BoD on the body, cast BoH right before Magmaw uses its AE on the body, cast BoD on the exposed head, cast BoH on the head before it goes up and repeat. So the exposed head gains 2x BoD damage during the slump, 1x 15% BoD damage during the body part plus 1x 15% damage of bombing adds while the body get 1x BoD and 1x 15% (x2 because of 100% more damage) during the slump. Should be a pretty nice boost.

Aramezzet · 01/08/11, 4:04 AM

Shadowburn may be worth casting. After comparing the damage in the tooltips I've been playing with Shadowburn over the past few weeks, and according to parses, it deals about the same damage as Incinerate. The sample size is small as I'm only able to fit in three or four Shadowburns per boss fight, but Simcraft corroborates: using the T11 BiS gear profile, Simcraft gets an average of 16300 damage per Shadowburn cast and 15000 damage per Incinerate.

That's a DPS increase over Incinerate.

Derishi · 01/08/11, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Aramezzet

Shadowburn may be worth casting. After comparing the damage in the tooltips I've been playing with Shadowburn over the past few weeks, and according to parses, it deals about the same damage as Incinerate. The sample size is small as I'm only able to fit in three or four Shadowburns per boss fight, but Simcraft corroborates: using the T11 BiS gear profile, Simcraft gets an average of 16300 damage per Shadowburn cast and 15000 damage per Incinerate.

That's a DPS increase over Incinerate.

I actually tested this myself and found the same thing. Running the T11 BiS profile with Shadowburn came up to around a 60 DPS increase over the T11 BiS Profile without Shadowburn.

Alduin · 01/08/11, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Aramezzet

Shadowburn may be worth casting. After comparing the damage in the tooltips I've been playing with Shadowburn over the past few weeks, and according to parses, it deals about the same damage as Incinerate. The sample size is small as I'm only able to fit in three or four Shadowburns per boss fight, but Simcraft corroborates: using the T11 BiS gear profile, Simcraft gets an average of 16300 damage per Shadowburn cast and 15000 damage per Incinerate.

That's a DPS increase over Incinerate.

I use Shadowburn too especially on add "heavy" encounters where it also grants replenishment (on the Halfus you can use SB about 12 times, 3 pre drake 6 on halfus) because you simply do not have enough time to cast immo-inc. Don't see any reason why a 2.x sec cast with 7k damage should be better than instant 7k blast. Also the simcraft BiS WL profile (preraid especially) doesn't look really good. I suppose you can easily get another 1-2k DPS by changing some parts. But 22k DPS in 346er gear - just insane. I don't even get close to 17k in raids. And my imp's firebolts do alot more damage (up to 25% damage over all).

semi · 01/10/11, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Saufsoldat

You're already not supposed to cast any dots unless ISF is up and ISF has top priority in any rotation, so there's really not much point in adding anything to the first post. Also, I doubt that it would be a DPS increase to recast Immolate whenever you gain a buff.

But doesn't ISF only come up once soul fire lands? What do you do with the GCD between casting it and it landing?

Aeiri · 01/10/11, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Demoniknegro

OK I figured it would be helpful to post here because I have achieved 2639 haste rating with no 372 loot and still a few blue pieces. My avg iLvL is 358 and my guild is 12/12. Just giving this info as a reference for what progression you might have to get for it to be obtainable, also I am an engineer which I think is pretty important because of the bad choice of helms for warlocks, I use the +208 hit/haste combination for my cogs. Id also like to mention I have top parses for * 10 man * Bastion, BWD and Four winds as both UA and Demonology(top 10 world wide OR top 10 for my class at the time of kill, and pushing to make top 10 world for all fights.)

The reason I post here instead of the UA/Demo thread is because while those are the two specs I've played I want to play Destro also and I see that many of the warlocks in top guilds(which I treat more valuable than someone with top parses for obvious reason) have a lot of crit and even reforged haste -> crit which obviously means they arent attempting to hit 2639. Im torn because to me it seems like Destro would benefit the most from getting 2639 because of the way conflag works with immolate but yet crit is still taken, in raids I am around 20% crit which seems like more than enough to get 3 crits out of Demon Soul.

You are correct in assuming that Destruction benefits greatly from the new tick of immolate gained at high haste levels. It should be obvious but the reason many warlocks are reforging to crit is because they do not have the gear to reach the 50% haste threshold. They reforge all of it to crit while staying at/above the 30%.

Diemus · 01/11/11, 12:45 AM

Improved Soul Fire now increases Fire and Shadow damage done by 4/8%, rather than 7/15% spell haste. In addition, this talent has been moved to tier-3 Destruction, switching places with Aftermath

Blue Post

Where does this put us. Haste thresholds are harder to reach now, no?

• Zakalwe · 01/11/11, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Diemus

Blue Post

Where does this put us. Haste thresholds are harder to reach now, no?

On the contrary, the new realistic haste threshold to aim for is around 2588. It just happens to provide one fewer immolate ticks than 2637 used to.

Teon · 01/11/11, 1:00 AM

I haven't seen any mention of the current PTR changes to Meta gem's so I figured I'd share what is supposed to be released next client side patch.

Now, wouldn't these changes(supposedly occuring same time as the reversion of Chaotic) change the recommended longterm gem? Seeing as based on the destro stat weights of Critical Strike vs Int, It will only require about 20 intellect to begin severely out-weighting the 54 Critical Strike.

Jewelcrafting
•Meta gems with the Chaotic and Relentless prefixes now have a requirement of 3 red gems.
•New meta gems have been added: Agile Shadowspirit Diamond (Agility/3% critical damage), Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Strength/3% critical damage), and Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect/3% critical damage). These new recipes are unbound and can drop from any Cataclysm creature. The new meta gems have a requirement of 3 red gems equipped.

MMO-Champion - Patch 4.0.6 PTR Notes Update, January 6 Cataclysm Hotfixes

Saufsoldat · 01/11/11, 1:04 AM

Originally Posted by semi

But doesn't ISF only come up once soul fire lands? What do you do with the GCD between casting it and it landing?

Conflagrate, Life Tap, Nether Ward, Soulburn, lots of options in a raid situation.

Demoniknegro · 01/11/11, 3:10 AM

The Improved Soul Fire change is something thats going to hurt Demonology/UA a lot, right now every raid spec uses that 15% haste buff and its by far the MOST important buff to keep on at all times, right now it gives 1920 haste. If there is a warlock out there wondering why his/her damage is low, the number one reason will be not keeping ISF up. This change makes warlock DPS'ing much easier, Im not too sure what other classes rotations are like but ours atm is heavily priority based and the most fun its been in a long time and VERY rewarding if you do it right.

If you ask me theres a huge gap between good warlocks and average warlocks right now, this lessens it. Destro atm is the best dps spec, but not too far ahead of UA and Demo is close by too because of the utility it brings, after this change its by far and away the best.

The 4 piece t11 change is nice and it seems as if it will make its way into our rotation when it procs, Im also glad that they reverted the change to Soul Swap Glyph. I still think something will have to be done as far as buffs for UA/Demo to stay competitive with Destro if these changes stick.

edited after Diemus comment, ty x)

Diemus · 01/11/11, 3:29 AM

Originally Posted by Demoniknegro

The Improved Soul Fire change is something thats going to hurt Demonology/UA a lot, right now every raid spec uses that 15% haste buff and its by far the MOST important buff to keep on at all times, right now it gives 1920 haste. If there is a warlock out there wondering why his/her damage is low, the number one reason will be not keeping ISF up. This change makes warlock DPS'ing extremely easy, Im not too sure what other classes rotations are like but ours atm is heavily priority based and the most fun its been in a long time and VERY rewarding if you do it right.

If you ask me theres a huge gap between good warlocks and average warlocks right now, this eliminates it, destro atm is the best dps spec, but not too far ahead of UA and Demo is close by too because of the utility it brings, after this change its by far and away the best.

The 4 piece t11 change is nice and it seems as if it will make its way into our rotation when it procs, Im also glad that they reverted the change to Soul Swap Glyph. I still think something will have to be done as far as buffs for UA/Demo to stay competitive with Destro if these changes stick.

This isn't necessarily true. If the ISF buff that provides 8% dmg increase is procced only from keeping ISF up, as the haste buff was, then there will still be a tricky rotation to be had.

The notes will be up tomorrow.