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Old 07/07/11, 2:09 PM   #166
Rakupenda
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
I was doing some execute range DPS testing out on the Melee dummies in ToC grounds I noticed that the extra 12% damage increase from Death's Embrace is actually going into effect at 35% and not the advertised 25%. Not really hugely helpful unless your waiting for the execute range to refresh a Bane, but figured I'd mention it to see if other people are seeing the same thing.

The issue stems from the fact that crit isn't re-calculated per tick, which means unless you update it, it will never see the additional 5% crit.


It does in fact start at 35% instead of the displayed 25% (as of 4.2, 7/7/11)

I executed in 3% intervals starting at 23% on up to 37% on the Meele Target dummies near ToC. Used Corruption, UA, and BoD.

From 23-34% ticks all reflected
Corruption: 2945 CRIT:6052
UA: 3140 CRIT: 6452
BoD: 15503 CRIT: 31856

At 37% ticks reflected
Corruption: 2630 CRIT: 5404
UA: 2803 CRIT:5761
BoD: 13842 CRIT: 28443

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Old 07/10/11, 10:30 AM   #167
Taoquitok
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Blade's Edge (EU)
The talent was originally at 35% I do believe, so the question is whether the 35% is a bug or it's actually a tooltip error. Nice findings though

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Old 07/11/11, 5:44 PM   #168
Ascendant
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Borean Tundra
Originally Posted by VoidStar View Post
I don't think I'm understanding you Ascendant: casting two Corruptions always takes longer than casting one Seed of Corruption, therefore one Soulburn:Seed of Corruption that will hit two targets is strictly better than casting two Corruptions. The same is certainly not true of a plain Seed of Corruption, but that isn't what the guide is talking about.
Direct quote from the guide: "For fights with more than 2 targets, then Soulburn: Seed of Corruption is the clear winner, followed by spamming Seed of Corruption." You must not have read the second part of the guide because it certainly is what the guide is talking about.

Though I agree that an initial soul burn and seed would be good for multiple targets, spamming seed afterwards is certainly not the best choice for 3 targets and this information needs to be updated. I don't think spamming regular seed becomes the best choice until there are at least 4 or 5 targets, but I don't have any solid data indicating exactly which point seed overpowers multi-dotting.

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Old 07/12/11, 3:22 AM   #169
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
You're right: I seem to have misread the guide, I read your comment and the guide recommendation as being about Soulburn: Seed of Corruption whereas it appears you (and indeed the guide) meant it to be about Seed of Corruption in general.

If your contention is that SoC is a poor choice on three targets then really you can't say that it's "certainly not the best choice for 3 targets" without providing some reasoning or evidence to support the claim. I suspect you're right, for adds that live long enough multi-Dotting is likely to be the better choice, but if we want to update the guide then we have to know what the answer actually is.

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Old 07/12/11, 10:10 PM   #170
jordancub
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Blackrock
Even after reaching the new haste cap (extra tick) of 2488 rating as a non-goblin for CoA, is it still not viable over BoD? Considering the 2p proc as well.

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Old 07/13/11, 3:27 AM   #171
Ascendant
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Borean Tundra
Originally Posted by VoidStar View Post
If your contention is that SoC is a poor choice on three targets then really you can't say that it's "certainly not the best choice for 3 targets" without providing some reasoning or evidence to support the claim.
Do you not currently raid or run heroics with your lock? Anyone who is currently playing and uses recount can clearly see a world of difference when manually dotting up 3 adds as opposed to spamming seed on them. This isn't rocket-science. It's something that is easily reproducible and can be very easily tested by anyone.

Honestly either way it doesn't matter to me whether the information is updated or not. I'm just trying to help out, as is the creator of this thread. I figure with all the help Jmickey has given us over the years, the least we can do is provide feedback. Though I lack any specific program to calculate the data to compare the options of what to cast when, I'm sure someone around here can.

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Old 07/13/11, 6:40 AM   #172
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Ascendant View Post
Do you not currently raid or run heroics with your lock? Anyone who is currently playing and uses recount can clearly see a world of difference when manually dotting up 3 adds as opposed to spamming seed on them. This isn't rocket-science. It's something that is easily reproducible and can be very easily tested by anyone.

Honestly either way it doesn't matter to me whether the information is updated or not. I'm just trying to help out, as is the creator of this thread. I figure with all the help Jmickey has given us over the years, the least we can do is provide feedback. Though I lack any specific program to calculate the data to compare the options of what to cast when, I'm sure someone around here can.
I'm not saying you're wrong Ascendant, in fact you've clipped off the very next sentence of my post where I said I thought were likely to be correct. All I was saying was that if we're going to make definite statements, especially if those form part of the consensus guide for best practice, then I think we should provide evidence. We're supposed to be Elitist here, so I think we need to ensure that we're rigorous, otherwise our new answer may be no better than our old one.

Incidentally, I suggest you take a look at the Fallacies of Relevence category on Wikipedia. You may find it informative.

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Old 07/13/11, 6:50 PM   #173
Taoquitok
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Blade's Edge (EU)
Originally Posted by jordancub View Post
Even after reaching the new haste cap (extra tick) of 2488 rating as a non-goblin for CoA, is it still not viable over BoD? Considering the 2p proc as well.
Interesting idea. Also something to note, with BoA glyphed, the next major tick is at 2842 (2687 as goblin) which could be doable in full T12/heroic gear (especially the goblin required amount). I wonder if this would be more beneficial than the UA glyph, especially once you take into account the 30second cd on soulswap.

Any simcraft wizzes willing to test this out?

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Old 07/13/11, 7:44 PM   #174
LordObsidian
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Spirestone
Interesting idea. Also something to note, with BoA glyphed, the next major tick is at 2842 (2687 as goblin) which could be doable in full T12/heroic gear (especially the goblin required amount). I wonder if this would be more beneficial than the UA glyph, especially once you take into account the 30second cd on soulswap.

Any simcraft wizzes willing to test this out?
#!./simc
warlock=Urgfelstorm
origin="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/spirestone/Urgfelstorm/advanced"
level=85
race=worgen
role=spell
use_pre_potion=1
professions=Engineering=525/Tailoring=525
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/talent#warlock-22322200301332132103000000000000000003300000000000000000
glyphs=bane_of_agony/corruption/haunt/shadow_bolt/life_tap/soul_swap/unending_breath/health_funnel/drain_soul
actions=flask,type=draconic_mind
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_felhunter
actions+=/dark_intent
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/use_item,name=balespiders_handwraps
actions+=/volcanic_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|!in_combat|target.health_pct<=20
actions+=/demon_soul
actions+=/corruption,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&miss_react
actions+=/unstable_affliction,if=(!ticking|remains<(cast_time+tick_time))&target.time_to_die>=5 &miss_react
actions+=/bane_of_agony,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&miss_react
actions+=/haunt
actions+=/fel_flame,if=buff.tier11_4pc_caster.react&dot.unstable_affliction.remains<8
actions+=/summon_doomguard,if=time>10
actions+=/drain_soul,interrupt=1,if=target.health_pct<=25
actions+=/shadowflame
actions+=/life_tap,mana_percentage<=35
actions+=/soulburn,if=buff.demon_soul_felhunter.down
actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.soulburn.up
actions+=/shadow_bolt
actions+=/life_tap,moving=1,if=mana_pct<80&mana_pct<target.health_pct
actions+=/fel_flame,moving=1
actions+=/life_tap
head=lightweight_biooptic_killshades,type=cloth,ilevel=359,quality=epic,stats=1016arm or_301int_512sta,gems=burning_shadowspirit_208hit_208haste_20int,enchant=60int_35crit
neck=valionas_medallion,heroic=1,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=215int_322sta_143haste _143mastery,reforge=mastery_crit
shoulders=shadowflame_mantle,heroic=1,type=cloth,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=1009ar mor_266int_429sta_191haste_171hit,gems=40int_10haste,enchant=50int_25haste
shirt=antisepticsoaked_dressing,ilevel=1
chest=shadowflame_robes,heroic=1,type=cloth,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=1346armor_3 45int_578sta_247crit_227haste,reforge=crit_hit,gems=40int_20int_20hit_20int,enchant=2 0all
waist=embereye_belt,type=cloth,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=782armor_282int_454sta_2 08crit_172haste,reforge=crit_hit,gems=40int_40int
legs=shadowflame_leggings,heroic=1,type=cloth,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=1177armor _345int_578sta_469haste_217hit,gems=20int_20haste_40int_20int,enchant=95int_80sta
feet=einhorns_galoshes,heroic=1,type=cloth,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=925armor_266 int_429sta_191haste_171mastery,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=40int_10haste,enchant=50haste
wrists=emberflame_bracers,type=cloth,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=608armor_227int_34 1sta_148hit_154mastery,reforge=mastery_haste,enchant=50int
hands=balespiders_handwraps,type=cloth,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=869armor_282int_ 454sta_157hit_216haste,gems=40int,enchant=50haste,addon=synapse_springs
finger1=signet_of_high_arcanist_savor,ilevel=359,quality=epic,stats=190int_286sta_121 hit_131crit,reforge=crit_haste
finger2=band_of_secret_names,ilevel=359,quality=epic,stats=190int_286sta_127crit_127h aste
trinket1=darkmoon_card_volcano,ilevel=359,quality=epic,stats=321mastery,reforge=maste ry_haste,equip=onspelldamage_1200+10fire_1600int_30%_12dur_45cd
trinket2=bell_of_enraging_resonance,heroic=1,ilevel=372,quality=epic,stats=363crit,re forge=crit_haste,equip=onspellcast_2178sp_30%_20dur_100cd
back=rippling_flamewrath_drape,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=695armor_227int_341sta_1 62haste_133hit,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=volcanospike,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=175int_262sta_105hit_123haste_23 33sp,enchant=power_torrent,weapon=sword_1.60speed_309min_574max
off_hand=molten_scream,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=227int_341sta_156crit_144hit,ref orge=crit_haste,enchant=40int
ranged=theresas_booklight,ilevel=359,quality=epic,stats=107int_161sta_72mastery_72hit ,reforge=mastery_crit
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=20
# gear_agility=20
# gear_stamina=5874
# gear_intellect=4394
# gear_spirit=21
# gear_spell_power=2333
# gear_hit_rating=1745
# gear_crit_rating=912
# gear_haste_rating=2842
# gear_mastery_rating=519
# gear_armor=8427
# meta_gem=burning_shadowspirit
# tier11_2pc_caster=1
# hands=balespiders_handwraps,addon=synapse_springs
# back=rippling_flamewrath_drape,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=volcanospike,weapon=sword_1.60speed_309min_574max,enchant=power_torrent
I used the above profile on my own gear, switched Bane Of Agony glyph and changed bane of doom to bane of agony with the same conditionals as corruption.

DPS with Bane of doom (No glyph+ extra haste) = 29315
DPS with bane of agony (Glyph + extra haste + action change) = 29084

Looks like BOD is still better, Im by no means a simcraft whizz so if ive done anything wrong please forgive the mistake, if anyone can verify the findings all the better.

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Old 07/14/11, 12:01 PM   #175
Moruff
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Firetree
@LordObsidian

actions+=/bane_of_agony,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&miss_react

You generally don't want to do this with BoA since the last tick does more dmg than the first tick. Just change it to

actions+=/bane_of_agony,if=!ticking&miss_react

It's a small difference though, I'm sure.

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Old 07/14/11, 4:54 PM   #176
vejito
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kael'thas
Raid performance section

I think the Raid Performance section needs to be updated, or I'm just missing something.

"Affiction > Destruction > Demonology

The difference between Affliction and Destruction continues to be <1% while Demonology continues to be ~5-8% behind"

The Simcraft section shows Demo as slightly behind afflic and Destro in 3rd.

"Demonology still reigns supreme in AoE DPS, with Affliction being 2nd best and Destruction being last. With the recent nerf to Soul Swap in 4.2 Destruction should will be he spec of choice for fights involving purely 2 targets."

I thought that manually dotting both targets and having BoD on one and BoA on the 2nd was a very minor dps loss when not using glyphed SS. If that's the cause, afflic should still be the spec of choice for fights involving purely 2 targets.

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Old 07/14/11, 5:39 PM   #177
Aeiri
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Blood Furnace
Originally Posted by vejito View Post
I think the Raid Performance section needs to be updated, or I'm just missing something.

"Affiction > Destruction > Demonology

The difference between Affliction and Destruction continues to be <1% while Demonology continues to be ~5-8% behind"

The Simcraft section shows Demo as slightly behind afflic and Destro in 3rd.

"Demonology still reigns supreme in AoE DPS, with Affliction being 2nd best and Destruction being last. With the recent nerf to Soul Swap in 4.2 Destruction should will be he spec of choice for fights involving purely 2 targets."

I thought that manually dotting both targets and having BoD on one and BoA on the 2nd was a very minor dps loss when not using glyphed SS. If that's the cause, afflic should still be the spec of choice for fights involving purely 2 targets.
Are we looking at the same sim results? Destruction is 1-2k behind Demonology depending on when bloodlust is used in the sims securing it the lowest dps performance in patchwork or any movement based encounter for single target.

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Old 07/15/11, 2:55 AM   #178
Jmickey
<3 Kitty
 
Jmickey's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Aeiri View Post
Are we looking at the same sim results? Destruction is 1-2k behind Demonology depending on when bloodlust is used in the sims securing it the lowest dps performance in patchwork or any movement based encounter for single target.
Actually, no, we aren't looking at the same sim results. Sim results when 4.2 was released reflected perfectly what the current raid performance section says, these have since changed and I haven't had a chance to update it yet, which I will be doing soon.


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Old 07/15/11, 10:49 AM   #179
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Note that Demonology relies really heavily on being in the bosses' face. If you can't do that then you gimp it *a lot*.

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Old 07/23/11, 2:54 AM   #180
Ascendant
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Borean Tundra
Does anyone have any numbers as to how Doomguard is scaling from int and mastery? I have searched everywhere and have not been able to find any data on this. I have heard information claiming mastery is substantially empowering the DG but nothing confirmed. I have also not found any data confirming whether or not the Infernal receives the same benefit from mastery.

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