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Old 01/07/11, 7:05 PM   #31
Lolth
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Festung der Stürme (EU)
I tested something I wasn't sure about and wanted to know if anybody here had a definite answer regarding that question:

Improved Soulfire has to be kept up all the time because of the haste buff, that's clear. But what if i hard cast Soulfire and begin an Unstable Affliction cast after i finished the Soulfire. The cast is still unhasted, because the SF didn't already hit the target but by the time i finish UA i have the haste buff up. Does UA (regarding the tick speed) take the haste value when i begin casting oder when the cast is finished? It's kind of hard to test because my gear is pretty bad (don't have the time for raiding at the moment) and i only get a new tick with both Hurricane & Imp SF up.

P.S. I know i can cast SF while still under the effekt of the buff, fire it with 0.x sec left on the buff and begin UA. That way i have Imp SF up when i begin the cast (still there from last SF) and when it's finished (new Imp SF because the new SF already hit the target) but the timing is rather annoying to hit and i don't think it's a dps increase to wait the time to actually hit that timing window.

Also please excuse my english, it's not my native language.

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Old 01/07/11, 7:40 PM   #32
Innulock
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Lolth View Post
Does UA (regarding the tick speed) take the haste value when i begin casting oder when the cast is finished?


DoT Tick haste is calculated upon cast finish, just like crit, mastery and spellpower.

Last edited by Innulock : 01/07/11 at 7:54 PM.

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Old 01/08/11, 3:09 AM   #33
Maelcrum
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kel'Thuzad
In regards to the Dark Intent discussion, I found a great table here : Dark Intent - The Guide (2010/12/24)) All credits go to Gherkin and listed authors.

Discussing execute phase, I have yet to be able to model this via Simcraft, however a previous post of mine, that can be found here:SimulationCraft for Warlocks (Cataclysm Edition) (Post 177, author: Raqi) illustrates how to maximize the final moments of our execute phase, which I believe could be a substantial DPS boost if allowed (meaning spare shard and soulburn available).

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Old 01/08/11, 10:32 AM   #34
Malthias
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Korgath
Demon Soul (Felhunter)

I'm curious if there are any other locks out there that have decided to play around with the felhunter instead of succy. I'm not sure if this is being accounted for in all of the damage parses, but right now the Demon Soul buff doesn't actually work with BoA. That's always done consistently more dmg for me than BoD when maintained properly, but Doom receives a 20% buff and Agony doesn't that makes me sad

Hope they fix it soon. Anyone else noticed it when testing?

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Old 01/09/11, 4:00 PM   #35
Burberri
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warlock
 
<G2>
Silvermoon
Glyph of Life tap is not very sexy in actual combat. I can't think of a fight in tier 11 where you don't have to move at some point. Perhaps Malroak. Also between raid buff, ISF/erradication, gear haste, you aren't saving yourself meaningful amounts of time during the coarse of a fight cause you will be very neard the GCD cap without a lot of effort.

In 5-mans it just doesn't matter tbh.

edit : Also glyph of soul link is also a solid raid glyph. I am raid buffed to 120k HP so its an additional 6k effective health.

and don't sneer at glyph of healthstone either. It has use in raids since a lot of t11 has us as dps avoiding/ mitigating damage.

Last edited by Burberri : 01/09/11 at 4:18 PM.

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Old 01/10/11, 10:23 AM   #36
Wolfbeckett
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Aegwynn
Originally Posted by Drumstickx View Post
First of all, sorry for my english, it isn't my native language. It's my first post in these forums so I just hope to be useful.

I m mainly interested in two points: 1)fel flame use and 2)the priority between use the soulburn instant cast to get the Imp SF or to summon a succub. at the beginning of a fight (after use demon soul with the fel hunter). I don't know how to test the first one; with respect to the second one I have been testing it against a dummy for days, and I hardly noticed the difference between these two ways...it depends on "when the trinket's procs come out", so...can anyone give any reasonable argument in favor of one of these?

Thanks for the incredible post and excuse me again for my awful english,
Regarding point number 1, I believe at this point it's been pretty well supported that Fel Flame's damage is simply too low to be useful unless you are moving and have no other instant casts that need to go out. Since it only adds 6 seconds to UA, as opposed to simply hardcasting UA for it's full duration, it's not worth doing for that, and it's abysmal damage makes it not worth casting for that either. Other people might have a different opinion but from my experience it's useless except as movement filler.

Regarding point number two, I haven't tried it to have hard numbers, but I would have to say that if your testing shows them being more or less equal, then just go with the simplest way, which would be the Instant SF right from the start. My gut feeling is you probably CAN see a DPS increase by using the Felhunter at first for the buff then insta-cast succy, but the timing on doing that properly while still getting a benefit from it seems dicey. I'd like to hear if anyone else has an opinion on this though, because it's a good idea in theory.

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Old 01/10/11, 11:23 AM   #37
vejito
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kael'thas
I noticed that Soulburn: Seed of Corruption is listed as an "optional" talent, but the only way to pick it up is to take one point away from a "required" talent. To pick this up, would taking one point out of nightfall be the best way?

Also, I've seen a lot of the top damaging Warlocks use the BoA glyph over the corruption glyph, is there evidence that the corruption glyph is superior?

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Old 01/10/11, 11:57 AM   #38
Jmickey
<3 Kitty
 
Jmickey's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by vejito View Post
I noticed that Soulburn: Seed of Corruption is listed as an "optional" talent, but the only way to pick it up is to take one point away from a "required" talent. To pick this up, would taking one point out of nightfall be the best way?

Also, I've seen a lot of the top damaging Warlocks use the BoA glyph over the corruption glyph, is there evidence that the corruption glyph is superior?
Take 1 point out of Pandemic. 0.25 seconds off the GCD for curses and banes is minimal, and can easily be achieved through haste. Also, a 50% chance to refresh UA when Drain Soul ticks is more than enough.

Simcraft places Glyph of Corruption about 50dps ahead of Glyph of BoA.


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Old 01/10/11, 12:29 PM   #39
Zok72
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Shadowsong
Bane of Agony and Extra Ticks

I am curious whether Bane of Agony's unique damage mechanic (that is to say, lower damage during the earlier ticks and higher damage during the later ticks) gives it a significant damage increase for each extra tick or not.

My reasoning is that if an extra tick is added to the end of the existing sequence of ticks then it would have to have a higher damage than the previous tick which would have been the most powerful tick in the sequence. Because a high damage tick is added, and the damage from the spell is low at the beginning, the final tick would increase the average damage of the ticks significantly more than an extra tick would for another spell where all of the ticks have the same damage.

Is this reasoning correct? If it is not correct, what makes it incorrect i.e. what are the mechanics that govern how the damage is increased when a tick is added to Bane of Agony? Finally, if I am correct, what are the implications for gear choices and do haste thresholds for BoA become important targets?

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Old 01/10/11, 3:50 PM   #40
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Zok72 View Post
I am curious whether Bane of Agony's unique damage mechanic (that is to say, lower damage during the earlier ticks and higher damage during the later ticks) gives it a significant damage increase for each extra tick or not.

My reasoning is that if an extra tick is added to the end of the existing sequence of ticks then it would have to have a higher damage than the previous tick which would have been the most powerful tick in the sequence. Because a high damage tick is added, and the damage from the spell is low at the beginning, the final tick would increase the average damage of the ticks significantly more than an extra tick would for another spell where all of the ticks have the same damage.

Is this reasoning correct? If it is not correct, what makes it incorrect i.e. what are the mechanics that govern how the damage is increased when a tick is added to Bane of Agony? Finally, if I am correct, what are the implications for gear choices and do haste thresholds for BoA become important targets?
I think you are not the only one curious about this mechanic. I've seen the same question asked on a couple of forums. I did a test on my warlock for the 12.5% threshold. My lock is only level 80, though, and my gear sucks. So, I wasn't able to test any higher threshold. (I did not test the 4.167% threshold because I wanted to do the test with constant spell power.)

With 11.99% haste, my bane of agony ticked 13 times: (1.786s interval)
4 weak
4 average
5 strong

With 12.50% haste, my bane of agony ticked 13 times: (1.778s interval)
4 weak
3 average
6 strong

With 12.93% haste, my bane of agony ticked 14 times: (1.771s interval)
4 weak
5 average
4 strong
1 very strong

weak = 312
average = 380
strong = 448
very strong = 515

So the total damage at each value of haste was:
11.99% - 5008
12.50% - 5076
12.93% - 5455

I tried the same test with a much lower spell power, to see if the calculation somehow depended on the total damage of the spell, and, it does:

With 11.99% haste, my bane of agony ticked 13 times: (1.786s interval)
4 weak
4 average
5 strong

With 12.50% haste, my bane of agony ticked 13 times: (1.778s interval)
4 weak
4 average
5 strong

With 12.93% haste, my bane of agony ticked 14 times: (1.771s interval)
4 weak
5 average
4 strong
1 very strong

weak = 252
average = 319
strong = 387
very strong = 454

So the total damage at each value of haste was:
11.99% - 4219
12.50% - 4219
12.93% - 4605

Now, this is very interesting. A "very strong" tick exists after we get to this new value of haste. Over the course of a 300 second fight, would this make a difference?

With 12.5% haste we need to cast BoA 12.98 times (23.1s duration) - you'll clip the last strong tick
With 12.93% haste we need to cast BoA 12.10 times (24.8s duration) - you'll get 1 extra weak tick

Using both trials, we can calculate the number of ticks at each value (weak, average, strong, very strong) and find total BoA damage in the fight for each:
Trial 1 -
12.50% - 65540
12.93% - 65772

Trial 2 -
12.50% - 54460
12.93% - 55512

So, the amount of extra damage you get on BoA by adding that .43% haste varies depending on how your spell power adjusts the ticks. It's a strange mechanic.

Last edited by revulva : 01/10/11 at 8:27 PM.

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Old 01/10/11, 4:24 PM   #41
Xenks
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Azshara
Playing affliction with the succubus, I've noticed it has a nasty habit of going OOM in only a few minutes. Once it goes OOM, it does no damage. I've learned to pay attention to its mana and instasummon a new one when it does OOM, but my gut feeling is that as a fire and forget pet, unless it's regaining mana from things I just don't receive the benefit of in my raid, it's going to OOM and eventually lose to virtually any other pet. As many of my fights are running 10 minutes plus, it will eventually oom, even if I use every soulburn on summoning a new one.

Am I doing something wrong? Nobody else seems to be noting a problem with this.

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Old 01/10/11, 6:35 PM   #42
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by revulva View Post
( CoA numbers )

Now, this is very interesting. going from 11.99% haste to 12.50% haste did not change the total damage of the spell hardly at all. But, in both cases there was a jump when getting the 14th tick: 7.47% in the first trial, 9.15% in the second.

Bane of Agony is about 10% of an affliction warlock's damage so this "jump" due to the threshold could conceivably be non-negligible (200 - 250 DPS depending on gear level). I tried using SimC to test around the thresholds, but, I was not able to observe any "jump" in DPS just above or below a haste threshold for BoA. I don't know if the authors of SimC have figured this mechanic out and are doing it the same as in-game or not.
You're forgetting to divide by number of ticks. A dot's total damage always goes up when it gains a tick, the damage *per tick* is what stays constant. If you divide your total numbers by the number of ticks you'll see that that's true for CoA as well. There's no "jump" in CoA's DPS at any haste threshold, just like there isn't a "jump" in UA's DPS at any threshold.

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Old 01/10/11, 8:04 PM   #43
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
You're forgetting to divide by number of ticks. A dot's total damage always goes up when it gains a tick, the damage *per tick* is what stays constant. If you divide your total numbers by the number of ticks you'll see that that's true for CoA as well. There's no "jump" in CoA's DPS at any haste threshold, just like there isn't a "jump" in UA's DPS at any threshold.
That's right, been doing too many calculations today. Updated my post.

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Old 01/11/11, 2:27 AM   #44
Moox
Glass Joe
 
Moox
Orc Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Jmickey is right, Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 Intellect.
While the tooltip reads "spell power", you can easily verify ingame it indeed gives Intellect. This is the buff you gain: Lightweave.

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Old 01/11/11, 11:02 AM   #45
Innulock
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Cursed crow View Post
I would like to make a suggestion about openings. In most cases I read that most people are using soulburn to got istantly ISF. What I'm doing is simply ask the tank to countdown from 3 before boss pull, wich allows me to precast SF and save one more soulburn usage for rest of the fight. In raid situation that precast can be join together with prepot.
Most people Soulburn (buff lasts 15 seconds) and then get the shard back with Soul Harvest (<3 seconds channel for 1 shard) before the tank pulls. This way you still have 3 shards for the fight, but you can move on the pull and you get the haste buff up faster.

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