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Old 09/06/12, 2:35 PM   #181
Keldion
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Warlock
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by Medvayne View Post
Any word on new Haste breakpoints for Dot's?
Here are the spreadsheets for Level 85 and Level 90.

Last edited by Keldion : 09/06/12 at 2:44 PM.


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Old 09/07/12, 12:59 PM   #182
Viscious
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Shattered Halls
any chance we can get someone to include ds unglyphed breakpoints and its subsequent allignments with wrath/ wrath and lust

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Old 09/07/12, 4:04 PM   #183
wobb
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by Viscious View Post
any chance we can get someone to include ds unglyphed breakpoints and its subsequent allignments with wrath/ wrath and lust
If you are saying with just wrath and wrath+lust, then they are in his sheets.

For instance
Wrath on agony, first BP is 3043[D16] and wrath + lust is 313[G22]

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Old 09/08/12, 2:33 PM   #184
Viscious
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Shattered Halls
sorry, to clarify, I see that there are breakpoints for DS while inactive, with glyph and without.
What i wanted to ask was, would it be possible to get breakpoints when DS is active, in other words with 27 and 30 percent haste included respectively.
Possibly they are irrelevant and thus not included? just curious.

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Old 09/08/12, 3:05 PM   #185
wobb
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by Viscious View Post
sorry, to clarify, I see that there are breakpoints for DS while inactive, with glyph and without.
What i wanted to ask was, would it be possible to get breakpoints when DS is active, in other words with 27 and 30 percent haste included respectively.
Possibly they are irrelevant and thus not included? just curious.
O i see, sorry for the misunderstanding, as for doing an actual spreadsheet, I will leave it up for keldion.

However as for actual effective rating of DS..

Unglyphed DS adds what is effectively 12750 rating.
Glyphed it adds 11475 rating.

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Old 09/08/12, 9:04 PM   #186
Medvayne
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Emerald Dream
Keep in mind that DS will have a different cooldown once you get the T14 4-set bonus. So when you are looking at sims and whatnot and possibly trying to line up this cd with an on use trinket it could prove to be slightly more complicated than one would originally think.

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Old 09/09/12, 3:02 PM   #187
Elmi
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Nathrezim (EU)
This is just an assumption not a recommendation so please correct me if I made any mistakes, which I often do. This is theoretical and there are many assumptions in this text.

Regarding Glyph of Dark Soul, i can see it being actually useful for fights, in which we have to delay Dark Soul for more than 20s BUT the damage inbetween isn't unimportant.
From the top of my mind I can think of the Spirit Kings (30% phase), Elegon (Energy Charge phase), Mel'jarak (Recklessness) and Lei Shi (Get Away!)

Assumed having 4pt14 the overall gain of an unglyphed Dark Soul would be 30% * 20 / t and that of a glyphed one would be (27% * 20) + (3% * (t - 80)) / t with t being the time between the activations.

____________________________________________________________________________________


If we now look at Lei Shi both the Get Away! burst but also the sustained dps seems to be important.
The fight lasts at most 360s (6min hard Enrage).
(log mined data) There generally is a 52s gap inbetween two specials (Get Away! or Hide), there seem to never be two Get Away! in a row but there can be two or more Hide in a row.
Assumption: 50% chance of Hide after Hide or after the pull, 100% chance of Hide after Get Away!

If you use DS on the pull, you can't use DS if the first special is a Get Away!,
if the last special is no Get Away! you can use an additional DS 20s before the Enrage.
Therefore i see the following probabilities:
            | DS on pull | no DS on pull
1 times DS: | 0          | 2
2 times DS: | 4          | 9
3 times DS: | 12         | 9
4 times DS: | 5          | 1
The overall increase of DS would then be:
           | DS on pull | no DS on pull
glyphed:   | 5,54%      | 5,02%
unglyphed: | 5,08%      | 4,05%
So to me it seems that generally using Glyph of Dark Soul for the Lei Shi encounter seems to be a significant DPS increase IF it is necessary to delay Dark Soul for Get Away!
It also would be a DPS increase if you use DS on the pull but assuming DS is necessary on Get Away!, that's not preferable.
Note: The effect of Scary Fog is not taken into account.

____________________________________________________________________________________


Now looking at another fight:
Spirit Kings, 196M HP each, assuming an average DPS 70k per player (6 heals, assuming tank doing also ~70k) * 19 = 1330k rDPS.

This would mean the first 30% phase would hit after about 100s (.7 * 196 / 1.33), the intervall after that would be about 150s (196 / 1.33).

The fight would maybe look something like this:

DS at pull - DS after 100s (first 30%) - DS after 150s (2nd 30%) - DS after 150s (3rd 30%) - DS after 80s (asap on the 4. King) - DS after 90s (as late as possible, this doesn't change anything without glyph but is a little gain with).

the overall gain now would be
unglyphed 6.10%
glyphed 6,36%
(~180dps difference)

With an average of 75k / 80k dps the overall gain would be
unglyphed 6,44% / 6,50%
glyphed 6,28% / 6,26%

So no real difference there. I'd probably chose the better burst over the minimal increase in the overall dps.

____________________________________________________________________________________


Unfortunately I don't have enough data to go through any other fight.

What do you think of the Dark Soul glyph from this angle? Can you think of other fights, where the glyph could be useful?

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Old 09/11/12, 12:05 PM   #188
Medvayne
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Emerald Dream
This is just a little off topic but i've been pondering this for days now.

At what ilvl/wpn does [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest] begin to phase out of being the better weapon? I would assume that for affliction it would phase out earlier than a more bursty spec like Destruction.

With MoP coming in the next couple of weeks, I'd like to get the best gear together to maximize my dps.

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Old 09/13/12, 8:27 PM   #189
Medvayne
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Emerald Dream
Does anyone know if I have to have Dark Soul up at the time of casting or can I use it while the Chaos Bolt is in the air? This would give my another 2.3 secs to get another cast off inside the Dark Soul buff.

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Old 09/14/12, 2:24 AM   #190
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
It needs to be up at the time of casting.

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Old 09/14/12, 4:09 AM   #191
Gilgrissom
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Blackmoore (EU)
While trying to calculate the value of the few still remaining Haste steps for Destruction, I came across a weird behaviour at 1262 Haste rating. At 1263 Haste rating we get an additional tick of Immolate with Bloodlust and 5% Aura, see here or here. Apparently, we are loosing DPS when crossing that specific Haste threshold, which can be seen in the report at File-Upload.net - simc_report.html (I unfortunatelly can not attach documents to a PM and have no other FTP server at hand, sorry for the inconvenient filehosting, you need to hit the smallest "Download" button on the page I linked). I used the default Destruction_T13H profile with "gear_haste=1262" to override the haste rating from gear. In the plot of the DPS value of Haste you can clearly see the drop at +5, which is actually 4 over the threshold.

My only explanation for this behavior would be, that with the increased duration we now refresh Immolate after Bloodlust has fallen off instead of right before, getting less uptime of "bloodlusted Immolate":
With 40 seconds buff duration, at which point would we only get 2 buffed Immolates, instead of 3:
- For 13.5s: Our first refresh would need to happen after 13 seconds of BL. At 13 seconds into BL we get a refresh at 13.0-26.5-40 and therefore 3 buffed Immolates.
- For 16.5s: If the first refresh happens after 7 seconds of BL, we get 3 buffed Immolates at 7-23.5-40, everything after will only get 2.
Factoring in the duration of Immolate without Bloodlust of around 15.5 seconds (1262 Haste with Wrath is about 15% additional Haste, getting us a Ticktime of 2.6), the probability of having only 2 buffed Immolates is (15.5-13.5) / 15.5 ~ 13% and (15.5-7) / 15.5 ~ 55% assuming being at any point in the duration of Immolate when Bloodlust hits is equally likely.

This means that it probably currently is beneficial to sit right below that threshold if you are using GoSac (without it, Haste is the best stat anyway and you will stack it), and that with MoP it might be beneficial to refresh Immolate early when Bloodlust hits, especially considering Pandemic. Will test this scenario later when I get home if noone beats me to it.

**EDIT**
After finally finding some time, I decided that examining the behaviour at level 85 would be a waste ofthat time, with only about 10 more days before MoP hits. However, the described behaviour is pretty much the same for level 90: When plotting the DPS changes for Haste around 4191 Haste Rating, there is still a drop, as can be seen here. The simulated level 90 Warlock refreshes Immolate as soon as possible without losing ticks on it (at least that is how I interpret option "I" in the Action Priority List), so short of forcing the refresh right after Bloodlust triggered there is no "gentle" way to eliminate this problem. I tried doing this by adding "immolate,if=buff.bloodlust.react&buff.bloodlust.remains>38.5" at the very top of the list, but it was a very slight DPS loss while only being executed 0.65 times on average. I would appreciate any help trying to model this behaviour.

Knowing that those haste thresholds are actually bad for our DPS, we can factor this into the reforging/gemming options. Unfortunatelly, the traditional metric of "scale factors" is based on the idea that stats scale continously in a smallish environment, so they will not be very helpful when trying to deal with those thresholds. In general, you will want to sit right below that additional tick unless you can get at least "dps_drop/(scaling_haste - scaling_nextbest)" rating above the drop, assuming you can reforge into the second best stat instead of haste. "scaling_haste" and "scaling_nextbest" are the scale factors for the two stats when ignoring the drop. Idealy, these would be obtained for every character when facing this problem, but using the calculated scale factors for T14H of 1.75 for Haste and 1.70 for Mastery this would mean that as a rule of thumb you should go above the threshold at 4192 haste rating when you can get to at least 4432 haste rating (assuming a drop off about 120 DPS).

Last edited by Gilgrissom : 09/15/12 at 6:16 PM.

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Old 09/22/12, 4:11 PM   #192
Soulless_Abyss
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Korialstrasz
Does Mannoroth's Fury work with Fire and Brimstone?

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Old 09/22/12, 6:48 PM   #193
wobb
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by Soulless_Abyss View Post
Yes, though mannoroths description is misleading. It does not increase radius by 500%, it increases it by ~125%.

The 500% is derived from (pi)r^2. Essentially it increases the radii of fire and brimstone to ~35 yards.

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Old 09/23/12, 6:00 AM   #194
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
It's not misleading, it does what it says. It used to state the increase in radius directly (and you had to work out the area increase if you wanted to know it, and which was greater than it is now), now it states that it increases the area directly (and thus you have to work out the radius increase if you want to know it, and which is less than it used to be.)

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Old 09/23/12, 6:58 AM   #195
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
It's still misleading because it increases the area by 406.25%, not 500%.

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