Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 15

Akusei · 10/15/12, 1:47 PM

Ok, I get where you're coming from. I guess it would be different if we still had an auto refresh mechanic on one or more of our dots.

I think the point about DPET being the same but needing more Executes makes it easier to conceptualize.

Skelzer · 10/15/12, 7:07 PM

I'm going back to not capping hit, It's a shame, as I hate to fail 8% of my spells, but my dps has sunk since I tried to go hit-capped.

If any of you has got any tips to play hit-capped affli, It'd be really nice if you could share them.

Flöte · 10/15/12, 8:00 PM

i guess it's rng, since a missing haunt hurts way more than a missed corruption that wasnt close to expiring. no idea how simcraft would actually account for that

caliente · 10/18/12, 12:15 PM

on that note, haste is behaving weirdly, when you do a reforge plot with mastery and haste. you can see haste scale almost like a sine curve in compare to mastery. i always try to reforge on top of the nearest amplitude but i dont know how to handle this realy...

Skelzer · 10/18/12, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by caliente

on that note, haste is behaving weirdly, when you do a reforge plot with mastery and haste. you can see haste scale almost like a sine curve in compare to mastery. i always try to reforge on top of the nearest amplitude but i dont know how to handle this realy...

Is it behaving like a sine when taking into account the new way windsong works?

Anyway, It's pretty weird indeed, I haven't been able to perform tests myself, but it seems reforges will give us more than a headache.

Archamedius · 10/19/12, 8:44 AM

OK I am not sure if this belongs in the Simcraft thread or here, so please don't shoot if this is in the wrong thread. I noticed for the 5.0.5 results on the page here: Simulationcraft Results as Demo, it actually says the Felguard is the highest DPS over Wrathguard an all other demons. Can someone explain why that is, and is it really accurate? I would expect the Wrathguard to have significant more DPS than the Felguard given the other talents at that level in the tree provide significant boost to DPS, and the tooltip says the demons do 20% more damage. Does this mean we should be choosing Service of Supremacy if we raid demonology?

Also, I know I am only 87 but when doing dungeons last night as affliction my dps was significantly LOWER than what simcraft says it should be (15-18k vs. 35k) and I know I might be rusty but last time I raided I was really good at staying close to what simcraft was saying I should have (Usually within 500-1k). I was opening with soulburn->soulswap to apply my dots, casting haunt and then following with Maelific Grasp. From there i was alternate MG then Fel Flame to keep up Corruption and UA. I only broke this rotation when I needed to refresh haunt and/or Agony. I had problems though running out of shards and so my Haunt uptime was very low. Should I be using drain soul prior to 20% to recharge shards despite the dps loss to get more haunts out there, or should I be more focused on maintaining the rotation with MG and Fel Flame?

Thanks for the help in advance.

zinnin · 10/19/12, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Archamedius

It actually says the Felguard is the highest DPS over Wrathguard an all other demons. Can someone explain why that is, and is it really accurate?

It means GoServ: Felguard vrs GoSup: Wrathguard. They are both very close on damage, and both viable.

Skelzer · 10/20/12, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by Archamedius

OK I am not sure if this belongs in the Simcraft thread or here, so please don't shoot if this is in the wrong thread. I noticed for the 5.0.5 results on the page here: Simulationcraft Results as Demo, it actually says the Felguard is the highest DPS over Wrathguard an all other demons. Can someone explain why that is, and is it really accurate? I would expect the Wrathguard to have significant more DPS than the Felguard given the other talents at that level in the tree provide significant boost to DPS, and the tooltip says the demons do 20% more damage. Does this mean we should be choosing Service of Supremacy if we raid demonology?

Also, I know I am only 87 but when doing dungeons last night as affliction my dps was significantly LOWER than what simcraft says it should be (15-18k vs. 35k) and I know I might be rusty but last time I raided I was really good at staying close to what simcraft was saying I should have (Usually within 500-1k). I was opening with soulburn->soulswap to apply my dots, casting haunt and then following with Maelific Grasp. From there i was alternate MG then Fel Flame to keep up Corruption and UA. I only broke this rotation when I needed to refresh haunt and/or Agony. I had problems though running out of shards and so my Haunt uptime was very low. Should I be using drain soul prior to 20% to recharge shards despite the dps loss to get more haunts out there, or should I be more focused on maintaining the rotation with MG and Fel Flame?

Thanks for the help in advance.

As far as I know you should refresh UA/Corruption manually, you should only use Fel Flame when you have no other choice.

Archamedius · 10/21/12, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Skelzer

As far as I know you should refresh UA/Corruption manually, you should only use Fel Flame when you have no other choice.

Why is that?

If you refresh UA and Corruption anually you use 2 Global cooldowns, but get at best, 7 seconds more on UA and 9 seconds more on Corruption. If you instead weave in Fel Flame after each Maelific Grasp, doesn't that result in a better net use of GC, since for the same 2 GCs spread out after 2 MGs, I get 12 seconds of additional uptime on both DoTs, not to mention the dps of fel flame to begin with? Last night I was running heroics for the first time, and while my dps wasn't great it steadily improved as I got a little gear and used to the rotation.

Please do not take offense to my questions, I want to really get into the nuts and bolts of how the warlock works under the hood so I ask these questions in the attempts to not be just another drone who does what RandomGuy on the forum says I should do.

Klavarnae · 10/21/12, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by Archamedius

Why is that?

If you refresh UA and Corruption anually you use 2 Global cooldowns, but get at best, 7 seconds more on UA and 9 seconds more on Corruption.

If You refresh either of these dots when they are under 50% of the total dot length, you will add on the full duration of the dot to the remaining time left on the dot (because of the level 90 ability Pandemic). The simcraft that you are looking at is for level 90, so that is the rotation you should be using then.

Skelzer · 10/21/12, 7:39 PM

Originally Posted by Archamedius

Why is that?

If you refresh UA and Corruption anually you use 2 Global cooldowns, but get at best, 7 seconds more on UA and 9 seconds more on Corruption. If you instead weave in Fel Flame after each Maelific Grasp, doesn't that result in a better net use of GC, since for the same 2 GCs spread out after 2 MGs, I get 12 seconds of additional uptime on both DoTs, not to mention the dps of fel flame to begin with? Last night I was running heroics for the first time, and while my dps wasn't great it steadily improved as I got a little gear and used to the rotation.

Please do not take offense to my questions, I want to really get into the nuts and bolts of how the warlock works under the hood so I ask these questions in the attempts to not be just another drone who does what RandomGuy on the forum says I should do.

As Klavarnae stated, Pandemic is the cause.

You can cast UA and corruption anytime if they are running under 50% of their length.
With Pandemic you'll never have to interrupt a channeling spell, because you have much more freedom refreshing dots. Remember that Pandemic does not affect Haunt, so you'll have to time your haunts accordingly.

Anyway, if you don't want to be another drone doing whatever people say on forums (which is cool, you know, you will never be able to adapt to different situations if you do not know your class' ins and outs), just try it at the dummy.

Make two tests, one using Fel flame and another one not using it, you'll notice the difference in dps.

Keldion · 10/21/12, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by Klavarnae

Originally Posted by Archamedius

Why is that?

If you refresh UA and Corruption anually you use 2 Global cooldowns, but get at best, 7 seconds more on UA and 9 seconds more on Corruption.

If You refresh either of these dots when they are under 50% of the total dot length, you will add on the full duration of the dot to the remaining time left on the dot (because of the level 90 ability Pandemic). The simcraft that you are looking at is for level 90, so that is the rotation you should be using then.

In addition, Fel Flame costs a nontrivial amount of mana at level 90; it's fully intended to be used during movement. Refreshing UA and Corruption through Pandemic is much cheaper, which contributes to less frequent usage of Life Tap.

Archamedius · 10/22/12, 8:10 AM

Originally Posted by Skelzer

As Klavarnae stated, Pandemic is the cause.

You can cast UA and corruption anytime if they are running under 50% of their length.
With Pandemic you'll never have to interrupt a channeling spell, because you have much more freedom refreshing dots. Remember that Pandemic does not affect Haunt, so you'll have to time your haunts accordingly.

Anyway, if you don't want to be another drone doing whatever people say on forums (which is cool, you know, you will never be able to adapt to different situations if you do not know your class' ins and outs), just try it at the dummy.

Make two tests, one using Fel flame and another one not using it, you'll notice the difference in dps.

Thanks for all the help and patience guys. I think my confusion was I was comparing the wrong added times. For some reason I kept thinking you would get an additional 7 seconds of UA and 9 seconds of Corruption (the 50% remaining on the DoT). Thats actually the maximum time you may have left on the DoT to get the benefit of a FULL cast (14 and 18 seconds) so the garnered up time per global cooldown is better if you refresh manually.

Question about Demonology:

Got to heroics this weekend, and ended up getting a 463 wand, so I got my wife to make an off hand for me. I ran into problems when in Meta where it would want to auto attack with the wand, especially when attempting to cast Touch of Chaos. It's really playing havok with my GCD. Is this normal? Should I be encouraging the wand dps in some way? basically when I pop meta, I try to cast doom, keep Chaos Wave on cooldown and then spam Touch of Chaos but it makes it difficult because my wand attacks seem to interrupt and I get a lot of errors when casting spells. I fould if I move around a lot (Shifting from side to side) it removes the issue, but I am fairly convinced I must be doing something wrong.

Skelzer · 10/22/12, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Archamedius

s. I found if I move around a lot (Shifting from side to side) it removes the issue, but I am fairly convinced I must be doing something wrong.

You're not doing anything wrong, wands are bugged with demonology.

I don't know if there is a fix incoming, but for now, you should stick to affliction or use a staff.

Teris · 10/23/12, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Skelzer

I'm going back to not capping hit, It's a shame, as I hate to fail 8% of my spells, but my dps has sunk since I tried to go hit-capped.

If any of you has got any tips to play hit-capped affli, It'd be really nice if you could share them.

hit-cap aff in pandaria is a lot like hit-cap cataclysm with one notable exception: keeping your dots up isn't quite as razor-edge as it was last expansion. Thanks to pandemic you can refresh your dots 3-5 seconds before they expire without any significant dps loss. Moving around means spamming fel fire and CoA to push your dots to their maximum time (1.5 x normal dot duration) so when you can stand and fire you have more MG time.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd suggest macro-ing Demon Soul/trinkets to haunt. I always forget to keep them on cooldown so I lose a lot of dps.