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Old 11/14/11, 2:07 PM   #31
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
If the thread will permit some idle pondering then I think that pushing demo towards near-melee is both a good and likely course of action from what we've seen so far.

Demo locks are already significantly advantaged by being in near-melee range (or really disadvantaged by being at range as we seem balanced including our near-melee range abilities) so pushing the spec more in that direction seems possible, and if Shadow Bolt really does change into a near-melee range ability in Meta (as the description implies) then it will basically be a necessity.

Demo will have to made explicitly "melee range" as far as the game is concerned for this to work though as encounters like Majordomo Staghelm seem to target their "at range" abilities by spec.

With talents such as Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and instant or "cast while moving" abilities a key disadvantage of requiring melee range is reduced.

Lastly, it would be good to say to raid leaders that Demo is supposed to be a melee range spec, as this tends to hold much more weight than "I'll do better damage ig you let me lurk with the melee"!

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Old 11/15/11, 11:14 AM   #32
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Demonic Slash could easily be a ranged attack: "Controlling the fel power of the very nether itself you create gashes in space and time and the bodies of any of your enemies foolish enough to stand in the patented pan."

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Old 11/17/11, 11:23 AM   #33
Kashii
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by MBar View Post
Probably worth noting here the proposed resource changes incoming for Warlocks:
  • Unique resources for each spec.
  • Affliction will continue to use Soul Shards, but with improvements.
  • Demonology will use Demonic Fury. Demonic Fury builds during combat, and when maxed transforms you into Meta / Demon Form. Additional abilities available for Meta. Supposedly, you will be in Meta more often.
  • Destruction will use Infernal Embers. Fire spells build up bonus damage, which is then released through nukes.
I'm curious how these new "resource systems" will play out. To me, at first blush, it seems that what is really going on is adding ramp up time to Demo and Destro specs so that their damage curve is more like affliction. I also wonder if Infernal Embers will be a self-buff or a debuff on the target which will end up like another version of Shadow Embrace.

Originally Posted by vileguy View Post
Hellfire while moving comes from a talent which won't exist. Likely, hellfire won't be castable while moving without this talent, or else it will be castable while moving for everyone, unless they make it a spec feature, which isn't likely.
Like others have said, speculation is difficult at this point because we really don't know what curent talents are going to be baked into basic 5.0 abilities or what might be added simply by selecting Affliction/Demo/Destro. Seems that if making the choice of spec is to be a significant one, then there would have to be a good bit of "if you are Demo then you can Hellfire while moving" sort of thing.

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Old 11/17/11, 9:40 PM   #34
Cybsled
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
I'm curious how these new "resource systems" will play out. To me, at first blush, it seems that what is really going on is adding ramp up time to Demo and Destro specs so that their damage curve is more like affliction. I also wonder if Infernal Embers will be a self-buff or a debuff on the target which will end up like another version of Shadow Embrace.
Based on it's description and the talents they are removing (Imp SF), it sounds like it will be a self buff and won't be target dependent.

That's actually one thing I am concerned about. Blizzard stated that they removed Imp SF because Infernal Embers is supposed to be it's stand in, but while Imp SF was a flat DPS increase for a set period of time, Infernal Embers sounds like it will be more streaky. They still haven't revealed what the mechanic for the "release" will be...if it will be something you manually have to input, or if the damage will incrementally be released when you hit certain milestones in your damage/# of nukes cast, or if it will only work on certain spells. They talked about having big conflag hits, so I'm guessing it will either be manually triggered or only certain spells will use the bonus damage (like conflag).

Last edited by Cybsled : 11/17/11 at 11:06 PM.

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Old 11/18/11, 3:33 AM   #35
krilz
Don Flamenco
 
krilz's Avatar
 
Orc Warlock
 
Laughing Skull (EU)
Originally Posted by Cybsled View Post
Based on it's description and the talents they are removing (Imp SF), it sounds like it will be a self buff and won't be target dependent.

That's actually one thing I am concerned about. Blizzard stated that they removed Imp SF because Infernal Embers is supposed to be it's stand in, but while Imp SF was a flat DPS increase for a set period of time, Infernal Embers sounds like it will be more streaky. They still haven't revealed what the mechanic for the "release" will be...if it will be something you manually have to input, or if the damage will incrementally be released when you hit certain milestones in your damage/# of nukes cast, or if it will only work on certain spells. They talked about having big conflag hits, so I'm guessing it will either be manually triggered or only certain spells will use the bonus damage (like conflag).
Did a quick Google and found an answer from a Q&A from the developers. Infernal Embers will increase the damage of your Conflagrate and Soul Fire and the ability you choose to use will use up all your Infernal Embers.

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Old 11/23/11, 8:22 AM   #36
Cybsled
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
Blizzard just made available a MOP talent calculator

Talent Calculator - Game - World of Warcraft!

Of note is that you can also click on the 3 specializations and it gives a listing of what the available spells are.

Notable things:

General class changes: Shadow Ward is now Twilight Ward and it absorbs shadow or holy. Fel Armor has changed, now it just increases armor, stamina, and healing received, but it is now a passive vs. an actual spell. Curse of Enfeeblement combines Curse of Tongues and Curse of Weakness, decreasing physical damage and cast time by 30%. Tool tip says it is less effective on bosses. Nethermancy is a passive at level 50 that increases your int by 5%. New spell at 64 is Unending Resolve: 10% base mana cost, 3min cd, Reduces all dmg by 50% and prevents spell from being interrupted for 12 seconds. Dark Intent has changed, now it is a raidwide buff that increases spell power by 6% for 1 hour. New spell at 88 is Demonic Portal...it literally sounds like it's from the game Portal in that you create 2 portals and people who go in one come out the other. It has 5 charges, but charges regen at 1 charge per 15 seconds. The tooltip mentions it has a 70 yard range. Interesting spell.

Destruction: Bane of Agony, Bane of Doom, and Hellfire have been removed as available spells (they still get corruption, but no seed of corruption). Chaos bolt appears to be GONE. Infernal Embers boosts dmg of soulfire or conflag. Aftermath is now a base passive at 54, biggest change is now it makes it so rain of fire DOES NOT have to be channeled anymore and it stuns all enemies inside it for 2 seconds! It still makes conflag daze as well. Rain of Fire now also does bonus dmg vs. immolated targets. Fire and Brimstone at level 62 is different, now it says your next incinerate, immolate, conflag, or soulfire will hit all targets within 15 yards of your primary target and it notes that it is instant cast /w a 10s cd (I guess we see the use of this spell now, since RoF does bonus dmg vs. immolated targets). Bane of Havoc has been changed, it now lasts 15 seconds so that the next 4 single target spells cast will also hit the bane target, 2m cd. Backlash is now automatically given at 73. Emberstorm is given at 80 and has been changed so that it increases infernal ember benefit by 4% and each point of mastery increases bonus by 0.50%. New spell at 86 Destructive Influence: Each attack by your demon reduces cast time of your next soulfire by 0.1 seconds, stacking up to 40 times..

Demonology: Rain of Fire and all the fire single-target spells except Soulfire have been removed. Bane of Agony removed. Bane of Doom is now demo only. Metamorph is given at level 10. Demonic Fury tooltip indicates it increases your damage by 10%, which is modified by mastery (Shadow bolt, corruption, soul fire, and drain life build it up). Wild Imps at 32, base is 1 imp that casts 5 firebolts (each bolt yields 10 demonic fury), tooltip says # of imps and cost of cast increases based on amount of demonic fury you have built up. Immolation aura is now different, it turns Hellfire into a spell that costs demonic fury vs. mana, does not need to be channeled, and it does not damage you. Demonic Rebirth is a passive at 54 (instant resummon), you have a 20s window to cast and it has a 2m cd. Hand of Guldan is now a base spell. Decimation is a passive at 69, based on the tooltip is essentially a soulfire execute where if you cast a soulfire on a target below 25%, your soulfire is 2 seconds less to cast, but if it is over that amount, your next soulfire has double cast time for 30 seconds. Demonic Freedom at 73, heals demon and removes all CC. Shadow Flame appears to be demo only now. Master Demonologist is passive at 80, boosts dmg by you in meta form, demonic fury benefit, and demon dmg by 1%, each point of mastery increases by 0.1%. Carrion Swam, new passive at 86. If you cast shadowflame in meta form, shadowflame costs fury vs. mana and it knocks enemies away.

Affliction: No hellfire/RoF. No fire spells except soul fire. Unstable Affliction give at 10. Soulburn and drain soul appears to be affliction only now. Drain soul creates 1 shard per 4 seconds and drain soul still acts like an execute, where it's damage is doubled on targets below 25%. Soul burn changes: Health funnel instantly heals + reduces dmg, fear becomes death coil essentially (no healing), seed of corruption places corruption on all damaged targets from the seed explosion, demonic circle is more or less the same. Seed of Corruption is Affliction only (No more seed bombs for the other specs!). Bane of Agony is affliction only. Malefic Grasp at 42, it does dmg + makes your dots tick 100% faster. Nightfall procs now change Malefic grasp vs. shadowbolt (since SB changes into grasp). Improved Fear passive at 69, fear now also slows target by 30% for 5s after fear wears off. Soul swap is still in. Potent Afflictions, passive at 80, all periodic shadow dmg increased by 13%, each mastery point increases bonus by 1.63%.

Talents have changed since Blizzcon as well in some cases, most notably the level 60 tier (based on my memory of the panel).

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Old 11/23/11, 8:29 AM   #37
ruthlessmind
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Bonechewer
Click Here ← Click Here
Spells: Broken up by general and spec specific. Also lists the level learned.

All specs
1 Imp
1 Shadow Bolt: 5% base mana. 1.7 sec cast. 879 Shadow damage
3 Corruption: 2% base mana. 1410 Shadow damage over 18 sec.
4 Imp: Blood Pact: Increases stamina by 4
5 Life Tap: You Life Tap for 15% of your total health, restoring 20% of your maximum mana.
6 Fel Armor: Increases your armor by 2603, total Stamina by 10% and the amount of health generated through spells and effects by 10%
7 Drain Life: added: Empowered Channel: Recasting this spell before it finishes boosts the duration by 3 sec. Stacks 5 times.
8 Summon Voidwalker
9 Create Healthstone
11 Health Funnel: added: Empowered Channel: Recasting this spell before it finishes boosts the duration by 3 sec. Stacks 5 times.
13 Soul Fire: 12% base mana. 2 sec cast. 2051 Fire damage
14 Fear
17 Curse of Enfeeblement: Binds the target in demonic energy, reducing physical damage by 30% and increasing the casting time of all spells by 30% for 30 sec.
18 Soulstone Resurrection
20 Summon Succubus
22 Eye of Killrog
24 Unending Breath
29 Summon Felhunter
31 Enslave Demon
32 Banish
34 Twilight Ward: Absorbs 4026 Shadow or Holy damage. Lasts 30 sec.
42 Ritual of Summoning
49 Summon Infernal
51 Curse of Elements
58 Summon Doomguard
64 Unending Resolve: The Warlock hardens his skin, reducing all damage taken by 50% and preventing his spells from being interrupted for 12 sec.
66 Soulshatter
68 Ritual of Souls
76 Demonic Circle
77 Fel Flame: Deals 311 Shadowflame damage to an enemy
82 Dark Intent: Infuses all party and raid members with shadow, increasing their spell power by 6% for 1 hour.
88 Demonic Portal: Create a demonic gateway between two locations. Stepping into the gateway causes any party member to be instantly transported to the other gateway. Limit 5 charges. The portal generates one charge every 15 seconds. 70 yd range

Affliction
10 Unstable Affliction
12 Soulburn: 15 sec cool down. Once soulburned, that spell cannot be soulburned again for 60 sec.
12 Drain Soul: Drains the soul of the target, causing 956 Shadow damage and energizing one Soul Shard every 4 sec. Lasts 12 sec. If the target is at or below 25% health, Drain Soul causes double the normal damage.
22 Seed of Corruption
27 Soulburn: Health Funnel: Your Health Funnel will instantly restore 36% health and reduce damage taken by 30% for 10 sec.
36 Bane of Agony: Banes the target with agony, causing 7918 Shadow damage over 1 min. This damage is dealt slowly at first and builds up each time it deals damage.
42 Malefic Grasp: Binds the target in twilight, causing 1052 Shadow damage over 3 sec. In addition, all of your periodic spells tick 100% faster while afflicted by Malefic Grasp. Empowered Channel: Recasting this spell before it finishes boosts the duration by 3 sec. Stacks 5 times.
47 Soulburn: Fear: Grants the Soulburn empowerment to your Fear. Your Fear will instantly horrify your target, causing them to run in fear for 4 sec.
47 Nightfall: Shadow Trance: Your next Malefic Grasp will instantly deal damage and cause all of your periodic spells tick 100% faster for 9 sec.
62 Soulburn: SoC
69 Improved Fear
79 Soul Swap
80 Mastery: Potent Afflictions: Increases all periodic shadow damage you deal by 13%. Each point of Mastery increases periodic shadow damage by an additional 1.63%
86 Soulburn: Demonic Circle

Demonology
10 Metamorphosis
10 Demonic Fury: Your Shadow Bolt, Corruption, Soul Fire, Drain Life and demon attacks generate Demonic Fury. Demonic Fury increases your damage dealt by up to 10%. (Modified by Mastery)
12 Demonic Leap: Leap into the air upon demonic wings, moving a short distance. Using this ability activates Metamorphosis. 10 sec cooldown. Instant cast
22 Hellfire
32 Wild Imps: Summons 1 Wild Imp from the Twisting Nether to cast 5 Firebolts at the target. The cost and number of Imps summoned increases as your Demonic Fury increases. Each Firebolt generates 10 Demonic Fury. Instant Cast. 30 sec cooldown
36 Bane of Doom: Banes the target with Impending Doom, causing 1911 Shadow damage every 15 sec. Lasts for 1 min. When Bane of Doom deals damage, it has a 20% chance to summon a Wild Imp.
42 Summon Felguard
47 Metamorphosis: Immolation Aura: While using Metamorphosis, your Hellfire spell now costs Demonic Fury, no longer deals damage to you and does not need to be channelled.
54 Demonic Rebirth
62 Hand of Gul'dan: Summons a falling meteor dealing 305 Shadowflame after 2.5 sec to all enemies within 6 yards. Targets struck are afflicted with Curse of Gul'dan. Limit 3 charges. You gain 1 charge every 15 sec. Curse of Gul'dan: Reduces movement speed by 35% for 10 sec. Stacks 3 times. Generates 25 Demonic Fury if the target has not already been afflicted with the Curse of Gul'dan.
69 Decimation: The cast time of your Soul Fire spell is reduced by 2 sec. If Soul Fire hits a target above 25% health, the cast time will double for 30 seconds.
73 Demonic Freedom
79 Shadowflame
80 Mastery: Master Demonologist: Increases the damage done by your demon servants, the benefit of Demonic Fury and damage you deal while transformed into a demon by 1%. Each point of Mastery increases damage by an additional 0,1%
86 Metamorphosis: Carrion Swarm: While using Metamorphosis, your Shadowflame spell now costs Demonic Fury and knocks enemies away from you.

Destruction
10 Conflagrate: Target enemy instantly explodes, dealing 70 Fire damage. Instant cast. 10 sec cooldown
12 Immolate
22 Rain of Fire: Now Deals 50% additional damage if the target is immolated.
36 Bane of Havoc: Banes the target for 15 sec, causing the next four single target spells cast by the Warlock on another target to also strike the baned target.
42 Incinerate: Deals 703 Fire damage to an enemy. Generates 1 Infernal Ember if the target is immolated.
42 Infernal Embers: This is a hidden aura that gives you the alternate power bar. Infernal Embers are generated by casting Incinerate on Immolated targets and are consumed by Conflagrate and Soul Fire. If a spell consumes you Infernal Embers, its damage is significantly increased.
47 Shadowburn
54 Aftermath: Your Rain of Fire does not need to be channelled and will stun all enemies within it for 2 sec. Your conflagrate will daze the target for 5 sec
62 Fire and Brimstone: Your next Immolate, Incinerate, Conflagrate or Soul Fire will hit all targets withing 15 yards of the target. Instant cast. 10 sec cooldown
73 Backlash
80 Mastery: Emberstorm: Increases the benefit of Infernal Embers by 4%. Each point of Mastery increases the Infernal Embers bonus by an additional 0,5%
85 Destructive Influence: Your demon's attacks reduce the casting time of your next Soul Fire by 0,1 sec. Stacks up to 40 times.

This spoiler lists spells.
Click Here ← Click Here
Changes to Talent Trees

Tier 1- Requires level 15:

Dark Regeneration [Instant, 3 min CD]: Restores 50% of max HP and increases all healing received by 25% over 25 20 seconds.
Soul Leech: Shadowbolt, Incinerate, and Malefic Grasp heal for 25 15% of damage done
Harvest of Life [Channeled, 3 sec duration]: Drains life from the target and all targets within 10 20 yards causing 92 104 shadow damage and heals for 2% max HP per target every 1 sec. Re-casting before it ends extends the duration by 3 sec, up to 5 times.


Tier 2- Requires level 30:

Howl of Terror [IC, 40 sec CD]: Howl, causing 5 enemies within 10 yards to flee for 8 seconds. Damage may interrupt the effect. When hit by a damaging attack, the cooldown on Howl of Terror is reduced by 1 sec.
Mortal Coil [IC, 45 sec CD]: Causes the target to run in Horror for 3 sec. Caster gains 25% max HP.
Shadowfury [IC, 20 sec CD]: Stuns all enemies in targeted 8 yards for 3 sec.


Tier 3- Requires level 45:

Hour of Twilight [90 sec CD]: When brought under 20% HP, all damage taken reduced by 50% for 10 sec.
Spell Drain [IC, 15 sec CD]: The next single target spell or ability focused at you deals no damage and heals you for half the damage it would have dealt. Lasts 4 sec.Formerly Tier 4 ability
Soul Link: All damage and healing received is split with the active demon.
Sacrificial Pact [5 min CD]: Sacrifices the demon Your demon sacrifices half its health to prevent all damage you would take for 10 sec.


Tier 4- Requires level 60:

Bloodstone [2 min CD]: Restores 44% base health and increases healing received by 50% for 10 sec.
Spell Drain [IC, 20 sec CD]: Next single target spell received within 4 sec heals for 50% of the damage it would have done otherwise.
Nether Ward: Transforms Twilight Ward into Nether Ward, absorbing 3141 damage for 30 seconds. Nether Ward causes you to taken 15% reduced damage from the school of magic that it absorbs.

Blood Fear: Your Fear is instant, but costs 10% of your max health
Burning Rush: Your Life Tap causes you to move 25% faster for 8 sec
Dark Bargain [IC, 30 sec CD]: Absorbs damage equal to 20% of your max health. Lasts 30 sec. Any shield remaining when the spell expires is dealt to you as damage.



Tier 5- Requires level 75:

Grimore of Supremacy: Increases damage from Demons by 10% and more powerful abilities, works on all summons and both Infernal and Doomguard.
Grimore of Service [2 min CD]: Instantly summons a second demon for 30 seconds.
Grimore of Sacrifice [2 min CD]: Sacrifices the demon to increase the caster's health and damage for 3 minutes. Summoning a demon cancels the effect.


Tier 6- Requires level 90:

Archimonde's Vengeance [60 sec CD]: Curses and enemy, causing them to take 25% of the damage the caster receives for 15 seconds.
Kil'jaeden's Cunning: Allows casting and channeling while moving, but increases doubles cast time/tick intervals.
Illidan's Guile Mannoroth's Fury [IC, 2 min Cd: Shadowbolt, Incinerate, and Malefic Grasp cause splash damage to enemies within 10 yards of the between you and your spell's target for 30 sec Active: You can activate this ability to increase the splash amount to 100% for 20 sec. The passive effect ceases until the cooldown resets.

This spoiler shows changes to talents

Last edited by ruthlessmind : 11/23/11 at 8:58 AM.

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Old 11/23/11, 8:51 AM   #38
Dastey
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Neptulon (EU)
Made a topic on MMO Champion HERE with the changes (Also check reply #11 for a better visible post)

What is really interesting to me is Soul Fire
- Instant for Demonology, so probably used once every 30 seconds until you hit 25%
- 2 seconds cast time for Destruction but demon attacks reduce it by 0,1 sec stacking 40 times. So we can get it for while on the move instant or the 1 second global cap. But will it be worth it to use over Conflagrate at any point? If not there really isnt any reason to have the pet unless it does more damage than a sacrifice does.
EDIT: Soul Fire could still be 4 seconds assuming it increases as you level, still would require it to hit harder than conflagrate before actually using it


Also things to be tested is definitely the damage component of Malefic Grasp. With nightfall giving 9 seconds 100% tick rate it might be worth to actually cast Drain Soul meanwhile even though it isnt under 25%.

And the new AoE changes for destruction looks amazing.
AoE immolate > Rain of Fire > Single target DPS

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Old 11/23/11, 1:44 PM   #39
Nehrak
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Llane
Changes I didn't see listed above me:

General
- Fel Armor is passive, not a buff. No more forgetting to put it on anymore.

- Searing Pain is gone. (I bet you didn't notice either until it was pointed out.)



Affliction
- Haunt is gone. Presumably Malefic Grasp is meant to compensate for that, especially its Nightfall effect. One of the first things to test, assuming it stays that way: does a Nightfall'd Malefic Grasp double-dip with a channeled Malefic Grasp? Either I'm blind, or there's no mention of being unable (i.e. - cooldown) to instantly cast Malefic Grasp after using it via Nightfall. Also, how does Empowered Channel affect Malefic Grasp when Nightfall proc? Giant nuke damage plus dot-boost effect? Base nuke damage plus dot-boost effect?

- Bane of Agony lasts for one minute now, ramping up to the maximum damage as usual. It seems to be much more comparable to Bane of Doom, now, especially when Malefic Grasp is factored in. (On the calculator, base Agony damage is 7918 over 60 seconds; Doom is 1911 every 15 sec, or 7644 over 60, plus the chance for the Imp.)



Demonology
- Demonic Leap no longer damages or stuns. It's just a Meta-inducing leap effect, now. (More fuel for the "melee-range focus" that was speculated?)

- Hand of Gul'dan has an area of effect component, both to the damage and the snare effect. I'm also guessing that the snare component to the 6yd aura has three charges upon impact, which it attempts to apply to anyone/-thing within it (dispelling the aura after?). The recharge part of it confuses me, since as worded the aura lasts forever and regains charges. Now that I'm rereading it, the "charges" part is just weird and makes me wonder if they changed it from a pulsing, stacking snare (like how Aura of Foreboding works for the stun part) to baking it in with the damage.


Destruction
- Shadowburn's "5 second kill" effect grants 5 charges of Infernal Embers. That seems like a lot on fights with relatively minor add components where you can go straight to the boss after (e.g. - Cho'gall).

- Conflagrate is no longer based on Immolate; it's closer to Fire Blast now.

- Destruction doesn't have a way to "lure" Infernals and Doomguards now, assuming they keep the "drawn to Agony/Doom'd target" mechanic in. Bane of Havoc lasts 15 sec and carries a 2 min cooldown. I'm curious if Blizzard will stick on a mechanic where they go after Immolated targets as well (or perhaps give us a Hunter's Mark type ability that will lure both pets and guardians to that target).


General Observations
- Overall, I'm glad they're doing away with one thing that felt weird until now. I'm referring to the fact that everyone had multiple AE abilities. They're making it clear that everyone will bring something different to the AE table, while also having the ability to "double-up" on the AE -- Aff: Soulburning Seed + Seed spam; Destro: Fire and Brimstone + Immolate + Rain of Fire; Demonology being itself -- while also making them somewhat unique in terms of function and form.

- I'm wondering if the spec-only abilities are incomplete for us, though. Browsing through other classes (Shaman) showed a number of passives, including the "spec-reward" ones, that we're at the moment lacking. I mean Demonic Knowledge, Shadow Mastery, Cataclysm, ones like that. It also seems odd they would remove abilities like Siphon Life from Affliction as well, unless it's a blatant move to reduce Affliction self-healing outside of using Drain Life/Harvest of Life. It could be that the number of non-passive abilities (e.g. - Demo) is meant to make up for it.

- Corruption still feels odd being in Destruction's spell list. I'm hoping that they'll have Immolate replace it (at level 10?), even though it currently doesn't say so on the tooltip. It's an RP/flavor reason, for the most part. It would also emphasize that you're supposed to be focusing on Incinerate, Soul Fire, and Conflagrate, rather than making sure all your dots are up and ticking (hi Affliction?). I exaggerate, but I think you guys get the point.

Last edited by Nehrak : 11/25/11 at 1:37 AM. Reason: Say "okbai!" to Searing Pain.

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Old 11/23/11, 7:15 PM   #40
Cybsled
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
Blizzard did mention that some of the spells will turn into other spells (shadow bolt turns into incinerate for destro), so it's possible corruption might change into something else.

I was thinking about the destro AE combo (AOE Immolate then Rain of Fire). Aftermath states that it makes it so RoF isn't channeled anymore, which makes it sound like a "fire and forget" spell (pun not intended), so does that mean you can stack another RoF on top of the one you just cast?

In theory, destro warlocks would also have a powerful AE stun combo if they chose Shadowfury as their CC talent. 2 seconds from RoF + 3 seconds from Shadow fury, then potentially you could recast RoF and get another 2 seconds. PVP has diminishing returns, but most NPCs don't, which means you could potentially keep huge clusters of mobs on lockdown for a pretty long time considering damage doesn't currently break our stuns.

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Old 11/24/11, 4:34 AM   #41
Geobram
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Saurfang (EU)
Originally Posted by Cybsled View Post
I was thinking about the destro AE combo (AOE Immolate then Rain of Fire). Aftermath states that it makes it so RoF isn't channeled anymore, which makes it sound like a "fire and forget" spell (pun not intended), so does that mean you can stack another RoF on top of the one you just cast?
I suspect that they will make "improved" RoF something more like Starfall the balance druid spell, but with a much smaller cooldown. maybe something like a CD of the length of the spell so you can not cast it double

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Old 11/24/11, 7:22 PM   #42
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Cybsled View Post
Blizzard did mention that some of the spells will turn into other spells (shadow bolt turns into incinerate for destro), so it's possible corruption might change into something else.

I was thinking about the destro AE combo (AOE Immolate then Rain of Fire). Aftermath states that it makes it so RoF isn't channeled anymore, which makes it sound like a "fire and forget" spell (pun not intended), so does that mean you can stack another RoF on top of the one you just cast?

In theory, destro warlocks would also have a powerful AE stun combo if they chose Shadowfury as their CC talent. 2 seconds from RoF + 3 seconds from Shadow fury, then potentially you could recast RoF and get another 2 seconds. PVP has diminishing returns, but most NPCs don't, which means you could potentially keep huge clusters of mobs on lockdown for a pretty long time considering damage doesn't currently break our stuns.
Unless I'm misreading things, Shadow Bolt does not "turn into" Incinerate for Destro, it's simply that Destro will always prefer to use Incinerate, just as Aff will almost certainly prefer Malefic Grasp or Drain Soul (if they don't prefer this then Blizzard have probably got their balancing wrong!)

It doesn't seem unreasonable for Destro to use Corruption: it doesn't have a Bane to maintain on single target and is otherwise quite basic at the moment: I imagine it'll be keep up Immolate, use Incinerate until you have a reasonable number of embers then use Soul Fire if it's instant or Conflagrate otherwise.

The only spec abilities that I can see that cause one spell to turn into another are during Metamorphosis.

On that subject though: the whole mandatory "enhancement" of spells with effects at level does strike me as a bit... restrictive... in places, two examples that spring to mind are the Carrion Swarm ability that ruins Shadowflame by knocking enemies away (simultaneously annoying everybody and counteracting our other melee range abilities) and Aftermath meaning that destro's only persistant AoE automatically stuns (which is often undesirable).

This sort of thing is reasonable if they were *extra* abilities, or talents you could choose not to take, but when they are automatic abilities that make certain abilities (or in the case of AoE where you don't want a stun, entire play styles) unsuable or irritating seems poorly thought-out.

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Old 11/24/11, 9:37 PM   #43
Cybsled
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
When would RoF's stun be undesirable? Typically when you're AEing things, it's with the express purpose of killing lots of things very quickly. A mechanic that makes npcs stay put (and thus eat more AE) would be beneficial in the majority of situations.

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Old 11/25/11, 12:21 AM   #44
rijn dael
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Frostmourne
If you are kiting mobs as you aoe them down, cc can really break your pack up.

Think H Maloriak, the black swills when someone had snare talents in their build - or the life platform of tot4w if someone broke the plants up, which made the DK's next snare not hit them all.
Lastly, imagine h rag, if you group up your sons - multiple warlocks using RoF / similar abilities would put them on stun DR straight up.

It is fine to have abilities like SF that will stun like that - it is just a problem when you can't control it.

Last edited by rijn dael : 11/25/11 at 12:36 AM.

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Old 11/25/11, 4:24 AM   #45
PsyBomb
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Aerie Peak
The new Nightfall mechanic looks interesting. The way I figure it, the priority is to maintain DoTs, with MG as primary filler and Drain Life taking over while you have a Nightfall debuff up. Drain Soul will probably be the secondary filler in Execute range, unless it is overwhelmingly powerful (in which case it takes over as Primary filler). AoE suddenly makes an extremely sharp distinction between durable and transient secondary targets. In the former case, SB-Seed into UA spam popping Nightfalls when they come up is highest DPS. In the latter, Standard Seed Spam is highest.

For Demonology we'll need to see just how the numbers look in the end (cap power, exact ability morphs, usage rates, and generation rates). Ideally for me, Blizz will set it up such that it creates a dynamic equilibrium, enabling you to make smart choices about Power use/gain abilities to maintain a transformed state near-indefinitely in combat. On the other hand, it could be a simple "Click here to transform, using all your Power instantly to become a demon for X time according to the power used". Either way works.

Destro... again, here we badly need what the scale of the numbers looks like. How many Embers can you hold? Since the only ways we've heard to gain them are one per Incinerate on an Immolated target and 5 for killing a Shadowburned mob, I'm assuming that you can only hold 5 or 10. If this is the case, then it looks like a basic priority of Immo-SF(if Instant)-Conflag-Incinerate. Not bad for basing the rest of the abilities around.

Actually, looking at these and other classes, the basic priority queues have been simplified tremendously overall. However, in doing so Blizzard is leaving us with a lot of wiggle room to use all of our extra abilities and distinguish the great from the good.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

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