It all seems very troublesome at the moment but with the removal of Shadowflame and Immo Aura not being a single target DPS increase I don't think we actually will need to go into melee range. Except if we want to use our "fun toys" tanking glyph to save the raid from a 1% Chimaeron wipe.
Right now the auto attack we have still refreshes corruption, and breath of gul'dan is still doing more damage then hand of gul'dan. They aren't really delivering what they said is the intent.
Ghostcrawler is giving me a strong Abashi vibe as of late (those who played EQ1 will know what I'm talking about). If the class design doesn't fit with 'The Vision' (ie, anything outside the box), it is clearly unintended and will need to be removed post-haste.
He outright posts that they wanted demo to feel different from affliction and destro, then they seem to revert or nerf every change that would actually make the spec stand out as something truly different.
Ghostcrawler is giving me a strong Abashi vibe as of late (those who played EQ1 will know what I'm talking about). If the class design doesn't fit with 'The Vision' (ie, anything outside the box), it is clearly unintended and will need to be removed post-haste.
He outright posts that they wanted demo to feel different from affliction and destro, then they seem to revert or nerf every change that would actually make the spec stand out as something truly different.
Griping about devs flip flopping on class design is all well and good and a long-standing warlock tradition, but let's try to have a little more constructive substance going forward.
After playing a few days on the beta (leveled 4 warlocks from 85 to 87), some thoughts about what could/should be fixed or added imho :
Destro :
- add a proc to watch, anything reactive really, which would be a nice addition to the "fixed" rotation it is now
- create a little synergy between immolate and embers (for multidot) : something along "each immo tick has X% chance to create 0.1 ember"
Demo :
- make sure Breath of guldan is less powerfull than hand of gul'dan, otherwise we'll be forced to go melee (again)
- add something to do while in meta (dps), not being able to refresh dots, and being limited to no-HoG/only-BoG + filler is just not enough
After doing some leveling and testing on a couple locks myself demo's new direction is a positive one BUT I would recommend:
*HoG/Shadowflame-Guldan both useable in meta form
*Fel Flame renewal of Doom/Corr while in meta form
*40 yard range on slash
*Melee autoattack fury geneneration needs to be removed (bug?) so we aren't married to melee range.
*HoG needs to be single target spell which centers itself on the targeted mob, recticle seems buggy or makes /targetlasttarget type macro's needed and shadowflame already covers aoe version of the spell mechanic.
As for the damage difference between HoG/Shadowflame I'll hope that gets covered in a numbers tuning later patch. I also think pets need a bit of balance work but are probably on the same number balance fixing schedule. Overall though I feel the Wrathguard/DG needs to be a bit better than it was in cata. As a premier or special pet it should at least match what baseline pets do in terms of single target with its aoe being its utility. Perhaps 90%'ish as tanky as VW and 100-110% of succy/shiv damage as a ballpark target? I will write off wild imps as just bad AI right now but they also need a look before going live.
Has anyone been able to figure out exactly how soul fire scales? The tooltip says it scales with crit chance, but with the limited testing I've had time to do I couldn't figure out in what way. None of the formulas I tried added up to the damage amounts I was seeing in the beta.
Does anyone else have the time and inclination to do some controlled tests with varying amounts of crit and spell power?
By taking out the 3% critical effect meta gem and just testing the difference in soul fire tooltip damage (doesn't show the increased damage it gets from crit, tested by reforging from 600 to 1300 crit tooltip damage stayed the same) I was getting a 7% damage increase from 14% crit chance, so I am guessing it is pretty much 1% damage every 2% crit chance.
I will test more in a bit.
EDIT: It can't be that, beucase at lower crit ratings it was doing more like .4% per 1% crit instead of .5%
EDIT2: It appears that crit strike chance gained from intellect doesn't increase the damage of soul fire, when I took the Soul Fire tool tip damage x my crit% gained from gear and my crit% that I have with no gear (1.2% crit chance) it was pretty accurate at all crit rating amounts.
So its looking like 1:1 damage increase to crit chance except you can't count the crit gained from intellect.
Threating Presence in voidlord and new fel guard(don't remember name) should increase warlock threat generation or demon. It should work like rogue ToT or hunter MD? Voidlord ability that increase hp don't working.
So its looking like 1:1 damage increase to crit chance except you can't count the crit gained from intellect.
Thanks - I did some further testing of my own using dark soul to easily achieve different crit levels, and my numbers seem to confirm your theory.
Very significantly, however, it appears that currently soul fire does *not* scale with crit when cast using a burning ember. This may be a bug, I'm not sure. I'd also like to see that conclusion confirmed by independent testing.
Thanks - I did some further testing of my own using dark soul to easily achieve different crit levels, and my numbers seem to confirm your theory.
Very significantly, however, it appears that currently soul fire does *not* scale with crit when cast using a burning ember. This may be a bug, I'm not sure. I'd also like to see that conclusion confirmed by independent testing.
I have also confirmed that Soul Fire scales directly with crit chance. In other words (not accounting for mastery here):
Total SF = (AvgDmg * CritMod) * (1 + CritChance)
Unfortunately the beta server has been down today so I haven't gotten a chance to see if I can replicate the bug with it not scaling during an ember-cast.
I did some testings yesterday to figure out spell power scaling of warlock spells and pet abilities. These coefficients were obtained by comparing tooltip and pet pane numbers at different spellpower levels. For a better comparison i nomalized these values to a standard cast time of 3 seconds or a dot duration of 15 seconds. I disregarded any haste, crit and mastery scaling.
set rules to determine spell power cefficients according to cast time or duration seem to be gone
33% nerf to Malefic Grasp is imo logical and mandatory to ensure usage of Drain Soul as execute filler spell
Shadowburn hits extremely hard (~70k in ilvl 403 gear)
So I think they may have been doing some tweaking with base damage and coefficients lately in the build. Over the weekend I was coming back with some different numbers than FlyingCow's coefficients would indicate. After running a system of equations, I came up with these coefficients (highlighted in red behind the spoiler) for some destro spells.
Shadowburn seems a little over the top of course, because both its base damage and coefficient are huge compared to the other spells. I'd expect that to undergo more changes as we progress through beta.
Talent
- The "flavor text" quotes seem to have been removed. (I find this saddening.)
- Dark Regeneration also affects the pet. Healing is now 30% of max health; duration is 12 sec.
- Soul Leech also heals your pet and includes Chaos Bolt (see Destro).
- Grimoire of Sacrifice now regenerates 2% max hp every 5 sec.
- Kil'jaeden's Cunning (Passive): Movement reduction down to 20% (from 30%).
Class
- Pets use "Fel Energy"; they regen 10/sec.
- Everlasting Affliction text was removed from the spells that had it (Agony, Corruption, etc.)
- Empowered Channel text was removed from the spells that had it.
- Curse of Enfeeblement reduces casting time by 50% (Players: 25%).
- Dark Soul passive effects removed. Glyph of Dark Soul provides 10% of the bonus passively, but reduces Dark Soul use effect by 10%.
- Command Demon removed.
- Soul Harvest is back as a passive, out of combat regen.
- Summon Doomguard/Terrorguard: Doom Bolts deal 20% more damage on <= 20% hp targets.
Glyphs
- Glyph of Demon Hunting (Major): Requires Demonology.
- Glyph of Dark Soul (Major): See Dark Soul (General).
- Glyph of Life Tap: No longer consumes health but absorbs healing instead. (!!!!) The effect stacks, and lasts 30 sec.
- Glyph of Conflagrate: See Conflagrate (Destro) for effect.
- Glyph of Hand of Gul'dan: See Hand of Gul'dan (Demo) for effect.
- Glyph of Imp Swarm: Requires Demonology. See Wild Imps (Demo) for effect.
- Glyph of Verdant Spheres (Major): You have Verdant Spheres instead of Soul Shards hover around you! Kael'thas was an Affliction Warlock, who knew?
Affliction
- Drain Soul: During execute (<= 20% hp), it also provides the faster-dots effect like Malefic Grasp.
- Nightfall: 10% chance to proc from Corruption; limit 5 times per minute. (I'm guessing Doom is 60-100%?)
Demonology
- Breath of Gul'dan: Removed.
- Hellfire: Removed.
- Rain of Fire added.
- Carrion Swarm: (Bugged?) Unchanged, but does not transform to/from anything. It only requires Metamorphosis now.
- Hand of Gul'dan: Primary targetting is auto-center on target. Glyph allows manual targetting.
- Demonic Fury no longer appears to passively increase damage. This was moved strictly to Mastery.
- Metamorphosis: Immolation Aura -- While using Metamorphosis, your Rain of Fire spell now deals damage around you and does not need to be channelled.
- Molten Core: The Shadowflame dot from Hand of Gul'dan and a Wild Imp's Firebolt have a 5% chance to trigger Molten Core when they deal damage. Molten Core reduces Soul Fire cast time by 50% and it generates extra Demonic Fury.
- Decimation: Casting Soul Fire on a <= 25% hp target causes Molten Core. (I.E. - Chained, faster Soul Fires as in previous functionality.)
- Wild Imps: Now passive, which is to summon a Wild Imp via Shadow Bolt casts at most once every 20 seconds (modified by haste; mine lists at 18.08sec). Glyph provides the (learned) ability to summon 5 at once while suppressing the passive effect on cooldown (the previous b15589 functionality).
Destruction
- Burning Embers are generated by casting Incinerate and are consumed by Chaos Bolt to deal damage or Ember Tap to heal you.
- Destructive Influence (Passive): Burning Embers increase your focus, periodically reducing the casting time of your next Chaos Bolt by 0.X (0.2?) sec. Stacks up to 20 times. Appears to be NYI.
- Pyromaniac (Passive): Chaos Bolt benefits from Backdraft, but consumes all three charges.
- Chaos Bolt replaces Soul Fire and deals Shadow damage.
- Conflagrate no longer uses charges. Glyph of Conflagrate adds a second charge, but the snare reduces to 30%.
- Havoc: Now three spells; 15 sec duration. 90sec/1.5min cooldown (from 120sec/2min).
These are some of my findings as Demonology:
Corruption gives 6f per tick.
Doom gives no fury. Tooltip says 30f per tick though.
Molten Core doesn't increase Soul Fire's fury return. SF gives 40f in caster form with or without MC. Tooltip says 30f.
Hand of Gul'dan hits the target like it does on live. Instant cast now though.
Glyph of Life Tap absorbs 25k healing (I have 171k hp on my level 87 warlock.)
Pets give half of their previous fury. 8-12f, depending on pet.
Touch of Chaos does not give fury and is still melee range only. It does about 1k damage and refreshes Corruption.
Mastery gives bonus damage unrelated to current fury level.
Mastery tooltip formula doesn't match stance tooltip. Casterform =mastery*0.667, Meta = mastery*2. Tooltips on the form itself seems to be the old one still. Will have to determine what is really happening.
Grimoire of Sacrifice doesn't kill pet.
Soul Harvest is passive, just being out of combat heals you and your pet.
Glyphing Wild Imps puts the spell in the general tab and makes it usable. Costs 150f. Unglyphing may be bugged and Imps may not come back out.
DA's Demonic Slash gives 60f.
Last edited by Eph : 04/25/12 at 8:39 AM.
Reason: removed duplicate info covered in other post
17.25% mastery reduce damage taken by 7.94%. Now we lost a lot damage taken reduction. I don't know how but I got 3.01% passive dodge chance. It isn't from spirit. I has yesterday on 86 level 4% dodge today on level 87 I have 6% dodge.
Fel Flame's damage is no longer being increased by Chaotic Energy, keeping it consistent with Blizzard's statement that it is strictly used for periods of movement. Incinerate will be our primary ember generation spell. Additionally, Fel Flame and Incinerate no longer require Immolate on their target to generate embers.
At the moment, Pyromania is bugged and only consumes three Backdraft charges if you have three or more accumulated.
Most individuals consider 13 to be an unlucky number. A warlock's unlucky number is 12.
I am a bit confused by the "Demonology is Mega OP" on the tool tip of metamorphosis. Through the transitional phase of leveling through the beta. I do not all feel like I am Mega OP. Perhaps that is a lvl 90 in raid gear thing.
I think it was sarcasm. Fury costs vs generation are not in a good place, chaos wave isn't worth casting at all.
DA is pretty unplayable with the change from fury generating HoG/corruption to fury dumping chaos wave/doom. Not that the damage reduction was working anyway.
The MG/DS dot speedup mechanic appears to have changed in a recent beta build - it no longer shortens the duration of the dot, only speeds up the ticks.
Unfortunately, the implementation appears to be bugged because depending on how/when you channel MG, you sometimes end up with a dot that stops ticking long before it fades, and sometimes you end up with a dot that keeps ticking long after its duration reaches zero.
Has anyone figured out how burning embers work when your spell misses? It appears to still cost embers, but less than the full ember it would have cost if you had hit. Disturbingly, the exact fraction of an ember a miss costs seems somewhat random.
EDIT: After some testing on the level 93 dummy it looks like a missed chaos bolt costs ceil(x / 4), where x is the number of embers you currently have. (In this context, one ember is a tenth of a full ember bar.)
I'm making a first pass over dots and hots for MOP. If you have any suggestions or information that I miss, feel free to send a PM. MOP Haste spreadsheet (Lv.85)
Most individuals consider 13 to be an unlucky number. A warlock's unlucky number is 12.
04/14/12, 11:44 PM
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