SimulationCraft for Warlocks (Panda Edition) - Page 24

wobb · 08/28/12, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Why would you be trying so hard to sacrifice chaos bolts for shadowburns when each chaos bolt does about 20% more damage on average?

In the same time it takes to cast a CB the, we can do is SB and 2/3 of a Incinerate, which translates into a loss of ~6.5% of our damage and netting us ~.5% more of our total mana.

This leads me to question whether or not using SB at any point is a DPS gain.

Simmed it is coming out to a 900dps loss to exclude SB.

I can't make sense as to why it would be that way tbh, the conflags and immolates do not change, I spend .4s less time "waiting".

**Found the difference I am in someway not spending 1 ember? With SB there is 28.4 CB's and 7.6 SB, w/o SB I only have 35 CB's.

• Zakalwe · 08/28/12, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by Loot

Guys, I have been playing the profiles for affliction and can't figure out what does add_ticks%2 does, for example

actions+=/agony,cycle_targets=1,if=ticks_remain<add_ticks%2&target.time_to_die>=8&miss_react

Trying to undestand it, optimize, implement in play if possible...

The % is the division operator, add_ticks is the number of ticks that would be added if you recast it with your current haste level, and ticks_remain should be self explanatory.

realCool · 08/28/12, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Why would you be trying so hard to sacrifice chaos bolts for shadowburns when each chaos bolt does about 20% more damage on average?

But the DPET of Shadowburn is higher. Otherwise we would still be using Chaos Bolt during Executes. So using Shadow Burn has to be a dps increase over using Chaos Bolt. Or is there a flaw in this logic?

wobb · 08/28/12, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by realCool

But the DPET of Shadowburn is higher. Otherwise we would still be using Chaos Bolt during Executes. So using Shadow Burn has to be a dps increase over using Chaos Bolt. Or is there a flaw in this logic?

Yes the DPET is higher that is unarguable, however the 1.5s we free up goes to our filler spell (incinerate in this case). The combined damage of 3/4 of an incinerate and a SB is slightly lower then a CB, however we do gain 3/4 of an ember* as well. SB is @ best a break even proposition for any one given ember, however the added 3/4 of an ember makes it <1% gain in total DPS to use SB.

*Value would be higher as we gain 2 embers/crit

jason1975 · 08/28/12, 7:52 PM

Originally Posted by wobb

Yes the DPET is higher that is unarguable, however the 1.5s we free up goes to our filler spell (incinerate in this case). The combined damage of 3/4 of an incinerate and a SB is slightly lower then a CB, however we do gain 3/4 of an ember* as well. SB is @ best a break even proposition for any one given ember, however the added 3/4 of an ember makes it <1% gain in total DPS to use SB.

*Value would be higher as we gain 2 embers/crit

Based solely on the DPET, it seems like this should be your optimal playstyle:

Boss above 25%
Pool embers when no damage multipliers up (DS/Trinkets), only using CB when you're in danger of capping embers
Purge embers via CB during DS/Trinkets on CB.

Boss between ~25% and 20%
Pool embers for SB, only using CB when you're in danger of capping
Sit on DS/Trinkets unless you can squeeze in 2 between then and boss=dead

Boss <= 20%
Blow CD's, Purge embers on SB at all times

realCool · 08/28/12, 8:28 PM

Originally Posted by wobb

Yes the DPET is higher that is unarguable, however the 1.5s we free up goes to our filler spell (incinerate in this case). The combined damage of 3/4 of an incinerate and a SB is slightly lower then a CB, however we do gain 3/4 of an ember* as well. SB is @ best a break even proposition for any one given ember, however the added 3/4 of an ember makes it <1% gain in total DPS to use SB.

*Value would be higher as we gain 2 embers/crit

I tried simulating using CBs instead of Shadow Burns during execute while Dark Soul is active and it was a 300 DPS loss. As such it is definitely a small DPS gain and following that pooling embers for that in the right way should also lead to an DPS gain. Of course that would not be a great one, as you have pointed out, but almost all improvements to destruction result only in a small gain as it seems. Still we want to find the theoretically best possible output here right?

wobb · 08/29/12, 5:34 AM

Originally Posted by realCool

I tried simulating using CBs instead of Shadow Burns during execute while Dark Soul is active and it was a 300 DPS loss. As such it is definitely a small DPS gain and following that pooling embers for that in the right way should also lead to an DPS gain. Of course that would not be a great one, as you have pointed out, but almost all improvements to destruction result only in a small gain as it seems. Still we want to find the theoretically best possible output here right?

I would be tempted to say it is a dps gain to use chaos bolt in execute as long as doing so wouldn't cost you a full ember (as is happening when you sim currently w/o using SB)

You get ~3/4*(1+(critchance)) everytime you SB instead of chaos bolting. Over the course of 13 casts with 0% crit 12 casts with 10% crit and so on we would lose a whole ember and thereby lower our dps.

For simplicity yes, SB as an execute will increase our DPS. What I am suggesting though is that when you no longer lose a full ember from replacing SB with CB then it will be a dps gain to do that. I am sure it would be a nightmare to sim, let alone to put into practical use.

Mind you I will always use SB as an execute just for the mobility.

Loot · 08/29/12, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

The % is the division operator, add_ticks is the number of ticks that would be added if you recast it with your current haste level, and ticks_remain should be self explanatory.

Thanks for the info, if I may one last question... what is the point, recasting to catch haste buffs?

realCool · 08/30/12, 3:49 AM

Are these changes Ghostcrawler posted about already implemented in the sim? Did not see them in the changelog when I just looked but I could have just missed them:

-- Warlock sustained AoE damage was significantly too high, across the board. We reduced the base damage multiplier on Fire and Brimstone from 45% to 35%, and reduced the damage of Seed of Corruption, Felstorm, Wrathstorm, Harvest Life, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Void Ray by 30%.

• Zakalwe · 08/30/12, 3:51 AM

Of course not - they're not implemented in-game either, as far as I know, unless they were hotfixed. We'll pick them up as soon as the patch implementing them goes live on beta.

realCool · 08/30/12, 3:57 AM

Ghostcrawler stated:

We first wanted to update you with several tuning tweaks that we made recently that are not showing up correctly on your client tooltips (either beta or live).

As such I thought they are already in game for quite some time and as such wondered if they were already implemented.

• Zakalwe · 08/30/12, 3:59 AM

Ah, I missed that - have you verified that they're implemented on live as well?

realCool · 08/30/12, 4:05 AM

Just tested on live with Fire and Brimstone:

Incinerate 21509
FnB Incinerate 11771
Mastery for Ember Spells: 53.47% increase

11771/21509 = 0.5473
0.5473/1.5347 = 0.3566

Seems that it is implemented

• Zakalwe · 08/30/12, 4:58 AM

Yep, I have it mplemented in SVN now.

FlyingCow · 08/30/12, 5:33 AM

Just tested it on live. The current coefficients are:

Seed of Corruption: 91%
Harvest Life: 17.5% per tick
Hellfire: 21% per tick
Immolation Aura: 17.5% per tick
Void Ray: 21%
Felstorm: 100% weapon dmg
Wrathstorm: 150% weapon dmg