galzohar

It not only depends on your threat, the 100 damage affects the whole party so it's actually more complicated than that if you're the only one being threat capped. But yeah tranquil air and going all out is generally better than threat capping with WoA. If you just slow down 5% of your DPS you more or less negated the effect of the WoA anyway. If you slow down less than that (and the rest of your party is about the same as you) mixing totems is a good thing. Anything more complex and you'll have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis, which is actually pretty complicated considering tank threat is very hard to predict especially from a tanks that don't play 100% perfect and can't tell you their expected TPS output.

Anyway if you just ask people who else is having threat issues, you'll find very varying responses. Some pull aggro with 1000 DPS and some never pull aggro with 2000 DPS. It really depends on your tank (skill>gear choices>gear level, but all of those matter).

 

Nas

I do tend to run into threat issues early on in the fight, till about the third taunt, after that point I can pretty much go all out without having to worry about threat due to tanks utilizing my high threat by riding it using taunt and staying well above the rest.

For the first minute or so, however, we have our Elemental Shaman drop tranquil air totem in a group with three Warlocks to maximize our DPS during that period of time, the moment MT1 taunts Brutallus back to him Wrath of Air is dropped and there is no need to worry about threat at all past that point.

 

CHaoTiCTeX

I have a quick question, does anyone know the proc rate / ppm of the Tier 4 2 piece bonus?

 

galzohar

This actually doesn't work. Taunt gives you as much threat as the person with current aggro has, not the highest person on threat. If it did do what you claim it does, on any fight (and trash mob) where the boss is not immune to taunt you could go all out and just have the tank generate threat using nothing but taunt never losing aggro due to the 110%/130% rule.

 

jendead

I have a question about using Infernal on Brutallus (I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread). My raid leaders are wary of letting me do this because they're worried it's going to break early and wreak havoc. The tooltip claims that the initial enslave is for 5 minutes - is there ANY possible chance of not having the full duration when you summon it?

:o

 

Flamingcloud

I have never seen it break before 5 minutes. Pretty sure it isn't possible.

 

Arelenda

I think the initial infernal you summon stays with you for the full duration of 5 minutes. I think you can even tell the enslave length by checking the buff timer (or this may be some addon I have).

 

Fafhrd

The dps difference you see often depends on a few things:

- have Shadowpriest? +100 dps
- have Wrath of air totem? +100 dps
- Bloodlust? +60 dps
- Drums of Battle? +25 dps/drum
- Moonkin aura? +100 dps
- using Spellstrike Pants even though you aren't a tailor? -150 dps (checked your armory)

 

Eph

I know you didn't ask it, but just as a general tip for anyone who hasn't found this out the hard way yet -- don't use the Infernal on Kalecgos unless you know you will not be ported. It'll break enslave and start attacking your raid. As far as I can recall thats the only fight to worry about using him.

 

jendead

Haha, I didn't think about that on Kalec. The poor Infernal is a pet I've pretty much forgotten about since level 55. I'm glad to see it has at least some (limited) use.

:o

 

Akj

Archimonde could be another, I'd guess that an infernal will break enslave or despawn during an airburst. We have used one on the rest of the Hyjal fights & Supremus without any issues though.

 

◊ BugRoger

I can confirm that an airburst on Archimonde breaks the enslave. The infernal starts to attack the raid... Just found that out 1h ago :p

 

Ammanas

Regarding threat on Brutallus, we have our feral tank start off tanking him and blow a BL in his group right off the start. It helps a lot with threat in the beginning (especially since we usually have a hunter in the group too MDing).

 

galzohar

Helps with threat yeah, but at a major DPS cost, so consider carefully before you decide to BL tanks.

 

Ammanas

It was worth it for us, the extra DPS time that the warlocks/mages got was well worth using a BL in the tank group. We still had 4 other BLs available since we were running 4 resto/1 enh shaman. It also wasn't a completely wasted bloodlust since our tank group did have two hunters in it (feral/prot warr/resto sham GoA/2x hunter).

 

Nas

After doing some research on this I have to say that I was mistaken - taunt does not permanently shift a tank's position on threat if the taunted mob was already attacking the tank, all it does is ensure that the mob will not attack anyone else within those 6 seconds that the debuff is up for, as a result buying time for DPS that is high on threat to shed some of it through class specific abilities. I suppose on Brutallus, prior to the first taunt by MT2, TPS is usually below normal due to the necessity of applying certain debuffs (should there only be one warrior, one of the tanks, present) such as TC and SA, that and TPS prior to having 5 sunders up would naturally be lower. After the first taunt the tanks start using their usual TPS cycle with all the debuffs up on the boss, which is usually enough to hold aggro throughout the fight.

As such, what I usually do on Brutallus, I start off by going all out, odds are I'll be close to pulling aggro within the first 10% of the boss's health due to the aforementioned reasons, at which point I shatter just to buy the tanks more time to settle into their optimal TPS rotation with all debuffs up - from that point onwards I simply go all out without the fear of pulling aggro, and that has worked for me over the past two kills.

 

SRneo

Hai Guys,

I know this is way off topic and sorry for it, (I'm a lower tiered guy, what can i say lol.) Anyways, I was hoping to get a couple of you guys to check out my armory. I've followed the Leuliar DPS spreadsheet and have gotten everything I could get my hands on that was an upgrade. I was just wondering if you guys had any input on whether I should change some of the gear and/or gems. We're 5/6 SSC and havent really touched TK except for VR. So keep that in mind when you tell me what I need to get and stuff.

Thanks!

 

Lokag

Well first of, you NEED to get hit capped, you're 22 below it so you're already fighting an uphill battle.

You've made two 'bad' (YMMV) choices for the hands and robes. The robes are one of these "OMG 50 crit and 60 damage!!!" items which really aren't as good as they look. You should have just gotten the Scarlet robes from heroic MgT and gemmed for hit. Otherwise you could have taken the +hit robes from the badge endor. Studious wraps would have done much the same as your current gloves for a drop of maybe 3 or 4 dps but saving 15 badges for an epic gem or something else later on. If you're just 5/6 SSC and 1/4 TK focus on just getting hit, damage and crit up, leave haste for T6 content.

Though I have to admit I'm just as guilty to be just short on hit (by 2 and it's getting fixed this week) and having haste a bit too early (we've just done Kael and I was capernian tank so respecced to fire destro to avoid nether protection procs so have the ZA necklace instead of the KZ one)

Otherwise IMO it looks fine. You're fire destruction so I assume you have other shadow destruction warlocks?

 

sarf

In order to make up for your hit deficit, you either need to do some item swapping or you can do some gemswapping (just make another pair of pants) - using veiled noble topazes in your pants, you'll lose 12 spelldamage and gain 12 hit, or you can swap out your wand for [Carved Witch Doctor's Stick] (gemmed with VNT). You could also trade your offhand for a [Jewel of Infinite Possibilities] (requires good luck in Kara though).

That said, one of your best long-term investments will probably be swapping your robe for [Shroud of the Lore`nial] until you gain enough hit rating to not need it anymore (I know - it hurts getting those badges again, but it will give you more options).

However, if you want a more bite-sized route, I'd say that by making new [Spellstrike Pants] (VNT gemmed) & [Carved Witch Doctor's Stick] (VNT gem) route you will have a decent amount of options as you gear your way upwards - this may be influenced by me having an Alchemist, though.

Be like a child - greedy, self-centered and immune from prosecution.

 

ninielin

you guys are going way too far just to be hit capped.... The 22 hit he is missing ( or the 2 hit of the poster above lol) won't change his dps. I only started getting hit capped once we killed illidan and that never stopped me from beeing 1 on the DM all the way from gruul to kalec. hovered between 170 and 190 hit. Its the cheapest stat as far as dps goes but thats about it.

 

Madlax

I have to agree there. Hit is simply the cheapest stat, but that makes it highly desirable.
Whether you take 12hit rating, 15spellhaste or ~22damage(or a whooping 28 crit as fire destro) doesn´t particularly matter for the DPS sustained.

On a 2nd note, I found Infernal - WWS and the Infernal damage looked really interesting, even when pulling ~800k on Brutallus that would be a fair trade off.
Anyone can verify if those WWS are accurare for a single Infernal?

 

Roywyn

That's 4 infernals in that log. If you browse it, you see 4 casts of enslave demon at the start.
If you check the Immolation - Spells - World of Warcraft timing, you see that it's 4 infernals (2 and 2 ticking at the same time stamps).

Makes 55k damage per Infernal.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Madlax

Hm, kinda pointless to use one then unless as affliction debuffer.
#Edit for the post-poster:
My bad, the last time I summoned an infernal for purposes must have been 100 days played ago.

 

dakalro

No, it makes it 55k damage on a 2 sec cast, that's high enough dpct to make it worth using. It does not remove Demonic Sacrifice.

 

galzohar

No reason not to gem for hit if you're not hit capped. Granted trading 20 spell damage for the missing 20 hit rating won't do anywhere near from turning you from a nub into a DPS machine, but it's a step in the right direction. To do good DPS you'll obviously also have to take a serious look at how you're actually playing, how much time you're wasting not attacking or lifetapping at bad times etc (with a major stress on the time spent not attacking as that's the #1 thing that causes people to do low dps).

Note that if you're only 2 hit rating short, while getting those 2 hit rating can be a good thing, if it costs you 4 spell damage (for example by swapping a 9 damage gem to a 5 dmg 4 hit gem) it's just not worth it, and costs 50g on top. Hit is better per itemization point, as much as it's not far from twice as good, but it's not twice as good so 2 dmg > 1 hit no matter what hit rating you have.