Deathwing

Yeah, I gotta agree with the latter sentiments. The two hit-cap nuts are giving terrible advice. For my dps setup, Shroud of Lore'nial will give only 3 dps more than Tormented Demonsoul Robes. That is NEVER worth 100 badges. I'd rather trade them for vortexes and sell for gold. Being hitcapped is nice, but only if it's more realistic dps. We aren't tanks were hitting has a very important secondary characteristic. Or like feral cats where missing that mangle might mess up your rotation because you weren't expecting. Miss a shadowbolt? So what?

 

dakalro

Then think about it this way, 1% under hitcap is doubling your chance for your spells to be resisted. Each % under hitcap increases the chance for your spells to be resisted by 100%.

 

Arelenda

Not only that, hit is useless on anything that's not a boss.

Typically you gem for hit since you're effectively trading on a one-for-one basis there, and you more or less pick gems so you're as close to cap as possible without overshooting it. In that scenario, hit is the best choice.

But I really wouldn't advocate making heavy sacrifices for hit elsewhere. In fact, I myself am very much hit capped at the moment and would kill for some good items that didn't have hit all over them.

 

Dancing Wu Li Master

Make new pants? You'd end up with the pants + threat cost, plus the cost of the gems. Compare that to regemming, which would cost only the price of the gems (double if you eventually regem back to what you have now). There is no way that's an economical solution.

 

SRneo

So after reading all the posts after mine, I assume the Leuliar Spreadsheet is not the way to go to determine what's best for my dps? I've done all the combinations with badge/crafted/raid drops and the gear I have now minus the T5 shoulders (All yellow sockets being Reckless Pyrestone lol) provided me with the highest number. Should I throw all that DPS spreadsheet junk out and just focus on hit cap and dmg?

BTW, I'm shadow destruction and yes, it told me the Subjugation Neck and Fetish were the best neck and OH I could have atm.

 

galzohar

That's a pretty horrible way to look at it. 98% damage is exactly 1/99 DPS loss (~1.01%). There's nothing double about it (that actually means something). Getting that 1% hit will cost ~12.5 hit rating, which will increase DPS by a little more than what 20 spell damage would. So while there's a point (around 1.7:1) where it's better to take the damage over the hit, but most item comparisons you'll make when not hit capped will tell you to take the hit item if the items are similar level. Obviously don't do something silly like trading >1.8 damage per 1 hit rating just to get hit cap as you'll only lose DPS, but trading even 1.5 spell damage for 1 hit rating is a good deal assuming that's the best deal you can get.

Of course if you have the choice wether to lose 20 spell damage to get 15 hit rating from 1 item (for example, glove enchant), it's worse than switching a 9 damage gem to a 8 hit gem, and both are worse than swapping 2 9 damage gems to 2 5dmg/4hit gems. Eventually all these options will up your DPS, but if the better ones already cap your hit you should take them. If they don't cap you, you should take everything (that's not losing ~1.7-1.8 or more spell damage per hit rating gain) that gives hit.

As for boss VS trash, if you care so much about trash DPS get a 2nd gearset where possible, but don't let it gimp your boss DPS if you care at all about progression. How many time did your progression stop because you cleared trash 1% slower? How many times did you wipe with the boss at 1%, stopping your progression (and farming for that matter)? Not to mention on trash a very significant portion of the time is spent walking around, organizing the pulls and simply switching targets (you'll be amazed at how much time you spend not casting between target switches if you weren't aware of the enourmous amount of time wasted on that beforehand) - better DPS doesn't speed that portion up which means 1% DPS increase on trash is far less than 1% trash clearing speed increase, while 1% more DPS on the boss is almost 1% faster boss killing and less chance for wipes.

In other words, if you can get alternate gear for trash then cool, otherwise just focus on boss gear as it's much more important.


For those who claim it's fine to run 20 hit rating short, while it won't turn you from a terrible to a great DPSer, there's pretty much no gear level in the whole game where it's worth it to be under the hit cap. Every gear level has options that allow you to cap your hit in a way that increases DPS - be it gems or actual items. I'm not talking about that "I only have 200 hit rating" as that obviously doesn't matter much (equipping a hit item in this case will probably cause a loss of at least 4 spell damage, which isn't worth it for only 2 hit rating), but when you're 20 hit rating short of the cap you did something wrong with your gearing.

 

galzohar

Remember spreadsheets can tell you how much DPS you'll do and how much DPS you'll gain by increasing stats, but they can't really tell you what items to wear. It's simply too complicated. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't use the spreadsheet to get what DPS you're going to do wearing different items.

For example it can tell you that hit is so great you should cap it, but it can't tell you if you should use 15 hit rating on gloves or a hit gem to cap your hit - while obviously the hit gem is better. Some things you just have to come up with yourself, but the leulier spreadsheet is very helpful at knowing what to look for and getting the final DPS you should expect to see in game if you actually play perfectly in perfect conditions (and it's not like reality conditions and bad play on your end are going to matter at what are the best items, more likely they'll just decrease your DPS no matter what you wear so the spreadsheet's item choices are still useful).

 

Lacky

Well with all this talk about the spreadsheet I want to verify some geming. As a general rule what is the best gem when you are hit caped(take out socket bonuses).

+9 spell dmg
+5 spell dmg/+4 crit
+5 spell dmg/+4 haste

 

Krazen

+4 haste/+5 dmg is probably optimal, but good luck finding someone to cut those.

 

clavarnway

Yeah, that cut doesn't exist just yet.


WoW Forums -> Follow up on a ticket / escalation process?

Pity...it's good.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

Eradorn

Several of the posters talking about the Aff locks said that they cast Immolate. The guide doesn't suggest this, and I would think that with Shadow Power, your cast time and mana would be better served casting another SB.

Yes, no, maybeso?

 

◊ Melbuframa

When I was Aff Leuliar's had it as a DPS increase, so I used it. Gear was the same as I have on now except I used FSW boots and Timbal’s instead of Icon

 

Zargouhl

I have a scenario for you guys, then a couple questions.

I'm sitting on ~1230 spell dmg, hit capped. I'm the lock-tank on Leotheras(we haven't gotten to Vashj yet, but we're close), and I've been running a 7/44/10 spec, based on Felguard/utility.

Now my problem is I'd really like to get my dps higher. Even on the felguard spec I do pretty nice dps, but when we hit Vashj I was thinking a 0/40/21 spec would be better, thus crit will be become a larger focus for me.

I'm currently geared like an afflic lock so my question is, when I move to a ruin-based spec how do I compare spell dmg to crit on a point to point basis?

 

galzohar

This is obviously about destruction, NOT affliction:
Since 1 haste is better than 1 spell damage for just about any gear setup, taking advantage of the "rounding error" of the 5 damage 4 haste gems is probably optimal when you can't use any more hit. Keep in mind, though, that if gemming enough 9 damage 4 hit gems allows you to take off a +hit item and wear a better item instead, you should consider that option as in some cases it's better than wearing a hit item and gemming for damage/haste.

Looking at Lacky's armory though doesn't show any item where the above would be applicable so 5dmg/4haste gems would be optimal in this case.

 

Deathwing

FG spec will out damage 40/21 if both are using their pets. FG spec will outdamage any other warlock spec, with the exception of maybe late sunwell destruction. That's IF they are using pets, I would find it hard to keep a fg, much less a succubus alive during vashj. SL damage and errant AE will make her dirt-nap pretty fast.

 

Zargouhl

hmm, so another question then...assuming I stay FG spec(have to for leo anyway), am I better off with the 7 points in affliction or putting those into dest for the extra crit?

and on another question, how do destruction locks compare spell dmg vs crit?

 

galzohar

1 damage is about as good as 1 crit rating (making spell damage better use of itemization points), but it could be a little bit more or less depending on your current gear and the warlock/shadowpriest setup (due to ISB).

 

Vlar

I think it partly a gearing issue as well.

Firstly, there are some Shadow damage pieces that last us for a long time (Kara neck, Boots from Hydross, Cape from MH/BT trash) as such most locks try to pick them up with the side effect of +shadow being higher than +fire.

Secondly, Immolate has a lower coefficient due to its two-part effect. The first part is also effected by its ability to crit, which is something that tends to be lacking.

 

Andersnordic

Which build (+pet) is considered superior when tanking Alythess?

I browsed through and was surprised to see a consensus hasn't been made.

Washupgloves

 

Pentamorfi

The build and pet that best suits your guild and your lock, there's no one answer to that. We're using a 21/40 lock with an imp out.

 

Smurrf

A guildmate of mine runs the usual 0/21/40 spec, but for whatever reason his DPS & damage done just isn't where it should be. I asked him about it a couple of times, and his response was that he had to scale back, because he kept on pulling aggro off the tanks, especially on trash. I wasn't really sure how to answer him, because I've been affliction since, oh, forever.

My question is this: How do SB nukers deal with the huge amount of threat they can pull down? When a Shadow Bolt can hit (and crit) for 6k or so regularly, that does tend to stack up. Do you use a different sac for trash? Or do you simply wait a little longer to go in (even though by the time you're able to start casting, the mob is already down half his health)? Currently, in mid T5, as an affliction lock, I'm out DPSing and out damaging him, and I KNOW that can't be right.

He's been going with a felhunter sac (I think that's the right one, anyways) so as to not have to worry about his mana bar at all, and admittedly that has raised him up more even with me, but I know that's not necessarily the best answer.

 

Kedjim

I swapped from Affliction to 21/40 a couple months ago, and I haven't noticed any sort of increased threat generation other than from the increased dps. Yes, Destro threat can be bursty, but if he's having problems, have him either split his first 15 seconds swapping between different tank targets, or have the tank that builds threat fastest tank the first kill target. Another thing that might be getting him is if he pops something like an Icon of the Silver Crescent at the pull. Save the trinket for when threat gets a little more established.

I don't think there's ever a reason to use a Felhunter sac on trash, unless there's a mana burn. I always run a Succubus sac, since almost no trash pulls in SSC/TK last long enough to even need to lifetap more than once or twice. Just spam shadow bolts, tap to equal life/mana, and eat/drink.

 

Ele'

I have a question about Enslave Demons. To be honest, I was wondering if it was not broken or something. Let me explain...

Something like two weeks ago, a Doomguard spawned during our Akama fight (due to a Curse of Doom killing an add). Appart from the fact that it was very funny, we noted something weird. The first enslave had a 5 minutes duration (yeah, without CoS or anything), the following one stayed for about half this duration, and so on. So, we decided that another warlock would enslave it, as he should not have any DR on this demon.

So I ban the poor thing before my fellow raiders tear it to pieces, my warlock friend try to enslave it, but the spell failed. The reason for the spell failure was that the target was already taped by someone else, as if the other warlock was not in my party (to be exact, he was in my raid AND in my party).

Did I miss the memo about being unable to enslave a demon that was previously enslaved by someone else in your group ?

 

InterSlayer

Destro threat management takes some getting use to because of surprise crits. I usually let my tanks get a good 15-20k lead in threat before settling into a SB spam. Even then, you have to keep a watchful eye on Omen.

Don't forget, tanks are part of the picture too. Make sure you're checking with other DPS and seeing if they are dialing it back a bit or having to use their threat-reduction abilities too often. If they are, it might be a sign your tank isn't generating enough threat.

 

Kedjim

I don't remember when this was implemented, but this sounds correct from what I know of it. Enslaving a demon puts a special "tap" on it specifically for that warlock. I've had rather nasty experiences trying to keep an enslave even on just the second cast, the DR completely wrecks all reliability.