PVE Raiding Compendium - Page 105

Arelenda · 04/22/08, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Eradorn

Several of the posters talking about the Aff locks said that they cast Immolate. The guide doesn't suggest this, and I would think that with Shadow Power, your cast time and mana would be better served casting another SB.

Yes, no, maybeso?

Check the section "Immolate vs Shadow Bolt". It depends on your specific gear and spec.

Silverstorm · 04/22/08, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by Smurrf

A guildmate of mine runs the usual 0/21/40 spec, but for whatever reason his DPS & damage done just isn't where it should be. I asked him about it a couple of times, and his response was that he had to scale back, because he kept on pulling aggro off the tanks, especially on trash. I wasn't really sure how to answer him, because I've been affliction since, oh, forever.

My question is this: How do SB nukers deal with the huge amount of threat they can pull down? When a Shadow Bolt can hit (and crit) for 6k or so regularly, that does tend to stack up. Do you use a different sac for trash? Or do you simply wait a little longer to go in (even though by the time you're able to start casting, the mob is already down half his health)? Currently, in mid T5, as an affliction lock, I'm out DPSing and out damaging him, and I KNOW that can't be right.

He's been going with a felhunter sac (I think that's the right one, anyways) so as to not have to worry about his mana bar at all, and admittedly that has raised him up more even with me, but I know that's not necessarily the best answer.

It's been a while since I was at mid-T5...but I seem to recall that being the "break-even" point for affliction and destruction. As hit/crit both start appearing on items, Destro begins to pull away as you move through T6 content.

Arelenda · 04/22/08, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Smurrf

A guildmate of mine runs the usual 0/21/40 spec, but for whatever reason his DPS & damage done just isn't where it should be. I asked him about it a couple of times, and his response was that he had to scale back, because he kept on pulling aggro off the tanks, especially on trash. I wasn't really sure how to answer him, because I've been affliction since, oh, forever.

My question is this: How do SB nukers deal with the huge amount of threat they can pull down? When a Shadow Bolt can hit (and crit) for 6k or so regularly, that does tend to stack up. Do you use a different sac for trash? Or do you simply wait a little longer to go in (even though by the time you're able to start casting, the mob is already down half his health)? Currently, in mid T5, as an affliction lock, I'm out DPSing and out damaging him, and I KNOW that can't be right.

He's been going with a felhunter sac (I think that's the right one, anyways) so as to not have to worry about his mana bar at all, and admittedly that has raised him up more even with me, but I know that's not necessarily the best answer.

Any warlock using felhunter sac over succubus sac clearly is clueless, unless the fight specifically demanded it (Kazrogal comes to mind, but I wouldn't bother even on that).

My guess is he's making excuses for being lazy, clueless, or afk.

Have him spam agony on all tanked trash at the start of the pull. It does more damage overall, divides threat and avoids initial threat bursts.

Have him watch Omen on bosses and use Omen yourself to monitor his threat.

If he really is close to tank threat: there are plenty of good posts in this threat that explain how to mitigate threat, but for SB spam is basically comes down to what people already said. Some quick tips for this:

On trash: dps multiple targets to avoid threat issues
on bosses: don't use affliction damage (so CoE or CoR instead of CoD), since it's higher threat for destrolocks, use Life Tap whenever not full on mana and time your cooldowns and Soulshatter well. Start with a curse and an immolate to avoid initial threat bursts.

Crepe · 04/22/08, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by Smurrf

A guildmate of mine runs the usual 0/21/40 spec, but for whatever reason his DPS & damage done just isn't where it should be. I asked him about it a couple of times, and his response was that he had to scale back, because he kept on pulling aggro off the tanks, especially on trash. I wasn't really sure how to answer him, because I've been affliction since, oh, forever.

My question is this: How do SB nukers deal with the huge amount of threat they can pull down? When a Shadow Bolt can hit (and crit) for 6k or so regularly, that does tend to stack up. Do you use a different sac for trash? Or do you simply wait a little longer to go in (even though by the time you're able to start casting, the mob is already down half his health)? Currently, in mid T5, as an affliction lock, I'm out DPSing and out damaging him, and I KNOW that can't be right.

Holding back on trash is one potential answer. Another is to alternately nuke/dot off-tanked targets, spreading the threat around.

One thing to note, affliction is usually pretty good on raid trash. You've got lots of targets to dot up, your threat is less spikey, you start damage from the pull rather than waiting on tanks, and you're usually armed with less +spellhit (which is wasted on trash).

If he's still having problems on bosses with threat, things to examine include:

1. Does he have Destructive Reach?
2. Does he have BoS (you want this over all other blessings)?
3. Is he popping trinkets at the start of a pull?
4. Before you start blaming tanks, are other direct damage DPS having threat issues? If so, make sure tanks are they using their rage effectively. *insert numerous tips about improving tank threat here; there's even a thread for it*

I did have monstrous threat issues at the start-to-middle of T5, but those mostly evaporated as our tanks grew more comfortable with TBC mechanics, their gear increased, and we ditched KTM for Omen. Play it safe and learn to love Soul Shatter.

Originally Posted by Smurrf

He's been going with a felhunter sac (I think that's the right one, anyways) so as to not have to worry about his mana bar at all, and admittedly that has raised him up more even with me, but I know that's not necessarily the best answer.

FH sac is almost never worth it compared to Suc sac. He can easily compare it using the spreadsheet, but I seriously doubt it's better, especially on trash (since you can drink between pulls).

One other thing about FH sac - each tick generates threat. I think it's 1 threat/MP, but I could be mistaken about the exact values. While it's probably not the 15% extra threat that the Suc sac is doing, it's definitely not the best investment in terms of damage/threat generated.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Arelenda

Any warlock using felhunter sac over succubus sac clearly is clueless, unless the fight specifically demanded it (Kazrogal comes to mind, but I wouldn't bother even on that).

I find that for both Kaz'rogal and EoS, Super Mana pots + Suc sac out DPS FH by a large margin. You do have to LT more, but the 15% damage still wins out. Maaaaaaaybe Mama due to the stupidity of resist gear, but even then, I doubt it.

Fudder · 04/23/08, 4:58 AM

Originally Posted by Arelenda

update: Heroism/Bloodlust do NOT decrease the global cooldown of 1.5s for warlocks. Haste rating does (since patch 2.4) and is therefore a very good stat for any warlock now. Global cooldown is capped 1s, making the haste cap 50%, which is near 800, not obtainable in a raid setting. Haste still suffers from diminishing returns due to your MP5 not contributing, but for most purposes pretty much provides linear increase to your dps. Total dps = unhasted dps * (1+haste rating/1577)

I believe they do, actually.

sarf · 04/23/08, 5:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dancing Wu Li Master

Make new pants? You'd end up with the pants + threat cost, plus the cost of the gems. Compare that to regemming, which would cost only the price of the gems (double if you eventually regem back to what you have now). There is no way that's an economical solution.

Well, as I said, it was from the POV of having an Alchemist. I also have quite a few friends with free Spellcloth CDs. Personally, I dislike destroying gems as it feels like taking gold and just destroying it - I much prefer solutions that, while having an initially higher cost allows me to eliminate subsequent costs.
Besides, having a few more items in your wardrobe shouldn't be that much of a bother for a pure DPS class, now should it?

Thread cost is not high on my server due to an amazing amount of people getting motes of mana - the nether is mostly opportunity (or 70-80G in gold) cost since I've been doing heroics for a while, and the nether market isn't very good on my server (low price, low availability, people prefer doing stuff out of mats ground out on their own, I guess).

That said, you're most probably right. I just don't like destroying invested assets, even if it is just a few 50-60 gold gems (current price for a VNT on my server).

Also, getting the shroud - while costly - can be worth it if it allows you to exchange items from other slots. I'm certainly not a spellhit nut, but more options is always better than less - the only one who can determine whether the cost of more options is worth it is you.

rochan · 04/23/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by sarf

Well, as I said, it was from the POV of having an Alchemist. I also have quite a few friends with free Spellcloth CDs. Personally, I dislike destroying gems as it feels like taking gold and just destroying it - I much prefer solutions that, while having an initially higher cost allows me to eliminate subsequent costs.
Besides, having a few more items in your wardrobe shouldn't be that much of a bother for a pure DPS class, now should it?

Thread cost is not high on my server due to an amazing amount of people getting motes of mana - the nether is mostly opportunity (or 70-80G in gold) cost since I've been doing heroics for a while, and the nether market isn't very good on my server (low price, low availability, people prefer doing stuff out of mats ground out on their own, I guess).

That said, you're most probably right. I just don't like destroying invested assets, even if it is just a few 50-60 gold gems (current price for a VNT on my server).

Also, getting the shroud - while costly - can be worth it if it allows you to exchange items from other slots. I'm certainly not a spellhit nut, but more options is always better than less - the only one who can determine whether the cost of more options is worth it is you.

Hahaha that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. How can you argue spending 1400g in mats is cheaper than regemming.

Arelenda · 04/23/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Fudder

I believe they do, actually.

And you're right. Thanks for correcting. Updated.

Smurrf · 04/23/08, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by sarf

Well, as I said, it was from the POV of having an Alchemist. I also have quite a few friends with free Spellcloth CDs. Personally, I dislike destroying gems as it feels like taking gold and just destroying it - I much prefer solutions that, while having an initially higher cost allows me to eliminate subsequent costs.
Besides, having a few more items in your wardrobe shouldn't be that much of a bother for a pure DPS class, now should it?

Thread cost is not high on my server due to an amazing amount of people getting motes of mana - the nether is mostly opportunity (or 70-80G in gold) cost since I've been doing heroics for a while, and the nether market isn't very good on my server (low price, low availability, people prefer doing stuff out of mats ground out on their own, I guess).

That said, you're most probably right. I just don't like destroying invested assets, even if it is just a few 50-60 gold gems (current price for a VNT on my server).

Also, getting the shroud - while costly - can be worth it if it allows you to exchange items from other slots. I'm certainly not a spellhit nut, but more options is always better than less - the only one who can determine whether the cost of more options is worth it is you.

Originally Posted by rochan

Hahaha that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. How can you argue spending 1400g in mats is cheaper than regemming.

Actually, it's a very tank-ish solution.

To explain further...one of the worst habits a tank can have is to get rid of an item (whether by vendoring or DE) once you've replaced it. The problem? Tank items have different stats. Some have more defense, some have more dodge, etc. Especially when you speak of defense numbers, there comes a point in time where in order to be able to wear upgrade XXX, you have to downgrade another slot to item YYY, to make sure that you're still uncrittable, or uncrushable, depending on the stats you're talking about. Even months after you upgrade an item, you'll realize that that trinket, or that shield, actually still has relevance for this fight or that encounter.

I understand what he's saying here. Keeping items that are gemmed and enchanted out for one set of stats, while building up or purchasing another item in the same slot for different stats, allows maximum versatility. Is it expensive to do? It can be. But he did mention friends who had available CD's, which certainly mitigates the cost. And you never know, there may come a point in time where having that extra set of pants (or whatever) on hand may save him a lot of time in the future. And that may be worth the cost of building up additional items now.

Keep in mind, too, that he was originally answering to someone else looking for suggestions. It'll depend on how that person weighs their time vs their available cash. If they have the time to grind out badges, then it's a moot point. If he happens to be someone who's already booked out, but has a decent cash supply, then it might make more sense for the person in question to simply make what he needs to.

Finally, he's not saying that spending 1400g is cheaper than regemming at all, unless I completely missed something in between. He's saying it's better to pay a large amount upfront, than to have to worry later on down the road about regemming every single time a person gets an upgrade. Think about it like this: You gem out your belt, and at the time, you need hit. So you gem for such. Then you get an upgrade for your bracers that has more hit, so you gem the belt for crit. Then a neckpiece comes along that upgrades your crit, so now you want to gem the belt for haste. Over time, given enough upgrades, you could feasibly spend a good amount regemming each and every time. A couple of items held in reserve that are either duplicates (through badge purchases or drops from farmed bosses) or just plain sidegrades, set for different stats, would allow you to not have to worry about either having a huge stash of gems on hand, or have to worry about finding a gem and/or somone to cut it each time you get an upgrade.

calisti · 04/23/08, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Zargouhl

hmm, so another question then...assuming I stay FG spec(have to for leo anyway), am I better off with the 7 points in affliction or putting those into dest for the extra crit?

Having raided as both 6/44/11 and 1/44/16, I find I prefer the second build. Without haste gear, the benefit from Improved Corruption is minimal. Corruption may be cast instantly, but you still suffer from the the 1.5 second global cooldown. All this talent really does is give you the ability to cast while on the move. Placing 1 point in Improved Corruption gives you a 1.6 second cast and frees up 5 talent points to place in Devastation. Personally, I think the extra 5% crit is worth the loss of Improved Life Tap and a not-so-instant Corruption.

And to answer your earlier question, using a fel guard on Vashj is viable if you have the 2 piece T5 bonus. Keep your pet away from people with static charge and you should be fine.

rochan · 04/23/08, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Smurrf

Actually, it's a very tank-ish solution.

To explain further...one of the worst habits a tank can have is to get rid of an item (whether by vendoring or DE) once you've replaced it. The problem? Tank items have different stats. Some have more defense, some have more dodge, etc. Especially when you speak of defense numbers, there comes a point in time where in order to be able to wear upgrade XXX, you have to downgrade another slot to item YYY, to make sure that you're still uncrittable, or uncrushable, depending on the stats you're talking about. Even months after you upgrade an item, you'll realize that that trinket, or that shield, actually still has relevance for this fight or that encounter.

I understand what he's saying here. Keeping items that are gemmed and enchanted out for one set of stats, while building up or purchasing another item in the same slot for different stats, allows maximum versatility. Is it expensive to do? It can be. But he did mention friends who had available CD's, which certainly mitigates the cost. And you never know, there may come a point in time where having that extra set of pants (or whatever) on hand may save him a lot of time in the future. And that may be worth the cost of building up additional items now.

Keep in mind, too, that he was originally answering to someone else looking for suggestions. It'll depend on how that person weighs their time vs their available cash. If they have the time to grind out badges, then it's a moot point. If he happens to be someone who's already booked out, but has a decent cash supply, then it might make more sense for the person in question to simply make what he needs to.

Finally, he's not saying that spending 1400g is cheaper than regemming at all, unless I completely missed something in between. He's saying it's better to pay a large amount upfront, than to have to worry later on down the road about regemming every single time a person gets an upgrade. Think about it like this: You gem out your belt, and at the time, you need hit. So you gem for such. Then you get an upgrade for your bracers that has more hit, so you gem the belt for crit. Then a neckpiece comes along that upgrades your crit, so now you want to gem the belt for haste. Over time, given enough upgrades, you could feasibly spend a good amount regemming each and every time. A couple of items held in reserve that are either duplicates (through badge purchases or drops from farmed bosses) or just plain sidegrades, set for different stats, would allow you to not have to worry about either having a huge stash of gems on hand, or have to worry about finding a gem and/or somone to cut it each time you get an upgrade.

Yes ideally you never want to regem, but making two of the same item is even more of a sin.

When you're just starting out, you won't really have much choice what gear to use. For me this was before they even made spell hit gems, and it's not like you'll have to min/max your gear to beat Gruul. As you gear up you'll get more items that have different stats and you can swap them out. I regularly swap out maybe 5-6 items depending on the situation.

Also it doesn't matter if he already has the mats for the item. It doesn't make it "free", he is still using those mats therefore he is spending the money.

Smurrf · 04/23/08, 2:24 PM

I fail to see how having multiples of the same item is a sin.

And you're still missing the point. No one ever said it was free. No one ever said it was even remotely cheaper. What was stated was that there's basically a convenience factor that you're paying for. By looking and planning ahead, one can eliminate some fair amount of bother.

If you're that worried that it's costing too much, simply switch it to drops. If you're running enough instances/raids, there's going to come a point in time where you're going to see an item drop that you already wear, that has a lot of customizable options. Lots of sockets, a nice bonus, and happens to be a slot with some flexibility in enchanting. Why not snag it, especially if there's no penalty (as in, it's just going to be a shard if you don't take it) and set it up to switch out if the situation comes up?

Don't just look at it from one perspective, take a step back and look at it from another angle. Is it, perhaps, expensive? Possibly, depending on the slot and how you obtain an item. Is it a sin, is it stupid, is it someone being a dumbass? No, and there's no need to classify it as such. There's more than one way to do things, and personal priority will play a big part in how that's done.

Liminality · 04/23/08, 3:34 PM

i think someone is forgetting that we are warlocks

there is only going to be one way to maximize DPS... options are completely irrelevant. Exceptions being like a tanking set or sperate boss and trash sets.

rochan · 04/23/08, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Smurrf

I fail to see how having multiples of the same item is a sin.

And you're still missing the point. No one ever said it was free. No one ever said it was even remotely cheaper. What was stated was that there's basically a convenience factor that you're paying for. By looking and planning ahead, one can eliminate some fair amount of bother.

Should I buy another car when mine runs out of gas? Shitty analogy but isn't making a 2nd spellstrike set a whole lot more bother than tossing in a few gems?

If you're that worried that it's costing too much, simply switch it to drops. If you're running enough instances/raids, there's going to come a point in time where you're going to see an item drop that you already wear, that has a lot of customizable options. Lots of sockets, a nice bonus, and happens to be a slot with some flexibility in enchanting. Why not snag it, especially if there's no penalty (as in, it's just going to be a shard if you don't take it) and set it up to switch out if the situation comes up?

Do you really think I'm unaware that you can do this? I already said this was the best option.

Don't just look at it from one perspective, take a step back and look at it from another angle. Is it, perhaps, expensive? Possibly, depending on the slot and how you obtain an item. Is it a sin, is it stupid, is it someone being a dumbass? No, and there's no need to classify it as such. There's more than one way to do things, and personal priority will play a big part in how that's done.

I only give my own perspective. I think I have more knowledge/experience than most of the posters here so when I see something that looks very wrong I put in my 2 cents. I do enjoy hearing other people's points of view because it lets me take a look at it from their perspective and see if I can fix it.

Liminality - you forget about elemental shaman. If you have one you can try and cut 3-4% hit from your gear and optimize it that way. Some fights you may want more HP, that sort of thing.

Bolche · 04/23/08, 4:47 PM

Originally Posted by calisti

Having raided as both 6/44/11 and 1/44/16, I find I prefer the second build. Without haste gear, the benefit from Improved Corruption is minimal. Corruption may be cast instantly, but you still suffer from the the 1.5 second global cooldown. All this talent really does is give you the ability to cast while on the move. Placing 1 point in Improved Corruption gives you a 1.6 second cast and frees up 5 talent points to place in Devastation. Personally, I think the extra 5% crit is worth the loss of Improved Life Tap and a not-so-instant Corruption.

They are very close in term of personal sustained dps but the devastation build :
- Improve significantly the ISB uptime (2-4%) and thus raid DPS.
- has a better burst dps. They are many fight where you have free time to LT (time where your LT are not taken from your nuking time).

bffjil · 04/23/08, 6:19 PM

I am unable to start my own thread because I have not yet reached the new user limit. I will post this here and hopefully be able to get a response in this clutter of affliction talk. I recently decided to spec fire destruction and my dps has seen a pretty noticable upgrade.

I have searched the forums for a couple days and have not been able to find a pure answer with any proof of what I am about to ask. (yes I have tried searching for every combination of destruction warlocks in pve and spell haste you can think of) Here is my question.

Is there a specific line playing fire destro that is when haste hits a diminishing return and starts becoming worth less than spell damage. From the information I have gathered as of right now 1 spell haste is more dps than one damage but people are continuously arguing over this.

I know elemental shamans have a graph showing this but do warlocks? or is there no diminishing returns even considering mana issues?

Flamingcloud · 04/23/08, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by bffjil

I am unable to start my own thread because I have not yet reached the new user limit. I will post this here and hopefully be able to get a response in this clutter of affliction talk. I recently decided to spec fire destruction and my dps has seen a pretty noticable upgrade.

I have searched the forums for a couple days and have not been able to find a pure answer with any proof of what I am about to ask. (yes I have tried searching for every combination of destruction warlocks in pve and spell haste you can think of) Here is my question.

Is there a specific line playing fire destro that is when haste hits a diminishing return and starts becoming worth less than spell damage. From the information I have gathered as of right now 1 spell haste is more dps than one damage but people are continuously arguing over this.

I know elemental shamans have a graph showing this but do warlocks? or is there no diminishing returns even considering mana issues?

No specific point, it is a combination of where your +dmg, +haste, +crit, and +hit are at, just use the spreadsheet. Haste obviously has its own diminshing returns that makes it worse the more you have.. but more important is where your other stats are at. Rarely are you going to have a gear setup where 1dmg > 1haste .. but you will often flip flop on 1.2 dmg vs 1haste. No simple graph could show this.. if someone wants to make 10 graphics of increasing haste vs other values at different points feel free.

Arelenda · 04/23/08, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Liminality

i think someone is forgetting that we are warlocks

there is only going to be one way to maximize DPS... options are completely irrelevant. Exceptions being like a tanking set or sperate boss and trash sets.

I've deliberately written the guide so it gives an overview of what specs do work, and so it doesn't pigeonhole everyone into "the one true spec". There's tradeoffs between talents, just as there's tradeoffs in gear. And what works for one person might not be the best choice for another, due to lag, taste, or play skill.

I would very much like it if people tried to give advice in a constructive atmosphere. (not intended for just the OP)

To be fair, I wouldn't recommend making [Pattern: Spellstrike Pants] twice just so you could save money on regemming. They are kind of expensive.

Typically, when I get an upgrade that lowers my stamina, I'll keep the old bit around so I have a stamina set. And of course it pays to have some spare bits so you can put yourself close to the hit cap, even when there's no elemental shaman.

Trospar · 04/24/08, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by rochan

Should I buy another car when mine runs out of gas? Shitty analogy but isn't making a 2nd spellstrike set a whole lot more bother than tossing in a few gems?

A better analogy would be that you own a Ford Pinto but you want to do a NASCAR race. You have the option of putting on some new tires (gems) or getting another car (pants). The problem is that when you are driving your Pinto to work you are using these horrible tires (gems) that aren't as useful as your fuel efficient old ones.

If you have the money/time/mats, I could definitely see making another set of [Spellstrike Pants]. An easier option would be to run Kara and grab some [Trial-Fire Trousers].

Eriksen · 04/24/08, 1:19 PM

Hello fellow Warlocks.

I have just rerolled warlock after being priest (Eriksen) since release. I am a Guild Master of the raiding guild Seven on Turalyon. The fact that it is very hard getting "good" raiding warlocks, we decided for me to reroll.
Picked up a dusty 70 warlock and started to gear him up about 3-4 weeks ago and this is my current situation
The World of Warcraft Armory

I have been reading this forum ever since and it has helped me alot. Since I have played healer all the time, I like playing my warlock in a "healer-friendly" way. and ended up on 7/44/10 I just love this spec and playstyle.

But.... in tems of theorycrafting and optimalization I consider myself a "noob" warlock and I want to be as best as possible. Atm my goal is the 75 badge reward boots and the class trinket from Solarian, sadly we dont officially raid TK anymore, so I try killing her with unofficial raids and hope for my luck.

At this stage we have killed in BT up to supremus and MH currently on 4th boss.
Nevertheless. If it is not too much to ask, are there anyone out there with greater experience that can guide and direct me abit more? I want the spec I have atm, or very similar. But items and sockets im not 100% sure of.
Everything up to mid BT/MH is within my reach, I am just not sure if I am making the right choices.
Any good and usefull tips and hints are much appretiated by this new warlock

Kind Regards, Neskire.

Demoniack · 04/24/08, 2:14 PM

As a firelock in BT/Hyjal gear, should I use Flame Cap or Destruction Potion to improve my DPS in a safe way ?

I mean safe way because if I use Destruction Potion I can use my Healthstone if I need to, and if I use Flame Cap I can use Super Rejuv if I need too. I think Flame Cap do more DPS but I'm not sure, what do you use firelocks ?

Gumibear · 04/24/08, 2:23 PM

Flame Caps average to be more damage over time than Destruction Potions. Also a Super Rejuv pot, since it gives back mana as well as health, increases your DPS (saving you life tap time) while a Healthstone does not.

scottemad123 · 04/24/08, 2:26 PM

For myself it really depends on my group makeup and timings within the fight. Lately I've been using mana potions over destruction potions because of the lack of running two shadow priests within our raids lately. I use flame caps on occasion on fights where I know I won't be taking too much splash damage, or fights like brutallus. As for destro pots, when I do use them I try to time them with trinket bombs and heroisms. But for the most part when learning fights, I save healthstone timers for emergencies, and use mana pots to keep from life tapping to save my healers some stress.

graywolffencer · 04/24/08, 2:32 PM

Let me start off by preemptively apologizing if this question has been answered in a previous post. I've spent a good deal of time looking for the answer (in this thread and in others) but nothing yet... Still, I might have missed something

With that out of the way, on to the question:

(armory: The World of Warcraft Armory )
I'm a 0/21/40 lock in a t5 content guild, and am currently shunning the t5 gear and still using the 2-piece bonus of tier 4. The question is this: At what point does the 2-piece t4 bonus become less effective then the straight stats of higher-grade pieces? And which two pieces would you guys recommend using? To be honest, the bonuses from t5 look like absolute crap for a destro and the proc from the two-piece t4 seems to go off quite a bit.

Any help?

(Also, if someone knows just how frequently it does indeed proc, that would be useful as well)

Thanks for your time

Mirya · 04/24/08, 2:58 PM

The 2-piece Tier 4 bonus ends up being about +35 dmg under ideal conditions. By ideal conditions, meaning you get to keep nuking during the entirety of the proc (which doesn't always happen). It's a good bonus but I think tier 5 level gear is better. IMO you should replace the tier 4 pieces once you find gear in those slots that collectively exceed +35 dmg.

edit: the set bonus gives you more benefit if you're affliction spec, since you cast more spells, hence it procs more often. If you're destruction spec, it's less than +35 dmg