Hadn't actually bothered checking if Ruin effected them or not. Checking back over my guild's WWS logs, I see one critically healing me for 4717 = 2080 (base) * 1.20 (talented HS) * 1.5 (crit) * 1.26 (talented FA).
They're not "destruction" spells, so this makes sense.
(And yes, I know talented HS only effects the HS produced, not consumed. I just wanted to calculate from the base value, since I couldn't remember the talented value off-hand.)
While atm the MSD is the best Meta (assuming you don't need yellow gems, otherwise use 12 damage)
In 2.3, there are 4 choices:
MSD (nerfed to 45 sec cooldown and 6 second buff, use 1 more blue than yellow)
12 damage (old standby, needs 2 yellow/1 red)
CSD (12 crit rating and 3% better crits, use just 2 blue gems)
Bracing Earthstorm Diamond (9 damage and 2% -threat use more yellow/red than blue)
For Destro/Demon, CSD will be the best, but for Affliction you have a choice. IMO, the BED is the best, because you only need one yellow (use red in other places) and more -threat isn't too bad.
There's also a meta gem from the Ogri'La flask-place event that gives 14dmg/5% stun resist. [Imbued Unstable Diamond], Imbued Unstable Diamond - Items - World of Warcraft
Cost is 100 apexis shards, and requires beating the third wave in the event, which probably takes a 25-man raid with good coordination.
While atm the MSD is the best Meta (assuming you don't need yellow gems, otherwise use 12 damage)
In 2.3, there are 4 choices:
MSD (nerfed to 45 sec cooldown and 6 second buff, use 1 more blue than yellow)
12 damage (old standby, needs 2 yellow/1 red)
CSD (12 crit rating and 3% better crits, use just 2 blue gems)
Bracing Earthstorm Diamond (9 damage and 2% -threat use more yellow/red than blue)
For Destro/Demon, CSD will be the best, but for Affliction you have a choice. IMO, the BED is the best, because you only need one yellow (use red in other places) and more -threat isn't too bad.
In addition to needing 100 shards (not hard to get) 25 people there to help you, you also need exactly 3 yellow gems.
Not worth getting, the damage lost from 3 yellows is too much (compared to just 2 yellow for +12 damage).
Are you sure on the gem requirement for this? I know I've seen it mentioned several times on wowhead and thottbot but there's a warlock poster on these forums I armoried that has it equipped and his other gems would break that gemming requirement (he stacks mostly yellow crit/damage gems). The World of Warcraft Armory
Not sure if the armory would show us rather or not the gem was active but it does appear to be active.
It seems all those posters are wrong. Since the meta is appears to be active on that profile, it seems the meta requirement is at least 3 yellow gems.
My opinion remains, for the best dps you use all reds (assuming hit capped), needing at least 3 yellows is bad.
If the OP wants to fix the gem requirements (to at least 3 yellows), might as well add that the Ashtongue Talisman of Shadows is generally not with using, even with instant corruption, due to low proc rate and short duration of the buff.
However, if there was a situation where you could constantly have 2 corruptions up at the same time, the trinket starts to become very useful.
My opinion remains, for the best dps you use all reds (assuming hit capped), needing at least 3 yellows is bad.
But that's the thing, you might as well have your +hit to cap on 3 orange damage/hit gems, fulfill the Meta requirements, and then have less +spellhit on another item.
Depends basically on what you get your hands on first.
SQUEAK.
-- (The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
It seems all those posters are wrong. Since the meta is appears to be active on that profile, it seems the meta requirement is at least 3 yellow gems.
..
If the OP wants to fix the gem requirements (to at least 3 yellows), might as well add that the Ashtongue Talisman of Shadows is generally not with using, even with instant corruption, due to low proc rate and short duration of the buff.
I wouldn't mind updating the compendium, but I'd need to see data.
The yellow gem requirement _seems_ to have been dropped. I don't see it anywhere, while I can see all other meta gem requirements correctly on wowhead and thottbot.
It may be worth noting in the OP that when using the succubus with 0/40/21 or any variant that Lash of Pain probably shouldn't be used due to it's affect on ISB uptime.
Variants
The Succubus build is an alternative to 0/21/40. It has Demonic Tactis (5% crit) and Soul Link and Demonic Knowledge (typically around +200 damage for a raid buffed succubus). It doesn't have the 0/21/40 Backlash (3% crit) and SnD (20% spellpower to Shadow Bolt/Incinerate). For reference, a Succubus has a lot less hit points and has no avoidance to aoe effects compared to a Felguard. Also note that the use of it's 'Lash of Pain' ability is generally inadvisable due to the drop in ISB uptime it will cause.
It may be worth noting in the OP that when using the succubus with 0/40/21 or any variant that Lash of Pain probably shouldn't be used due to it's affect on ISB uptime.
"Basic gear choices (see below)
Spell hit > Spell Haste > Spell damage > Spell Crit"
I show Hit > Damage > Haste > Crit for a 1400 spell damage, 25 crit, 12 hit demo 'lock and show damage pulling ahead of haste on a few spec and stat variants. This goes for both full felguard builds and succubus builds (rather or not the succubus is attacking).
Because Demo relies on Immolate and Corruption in the casting rotation I don't see how haste could pull ahead of spell damage for the build, especially considering spell damage affects demon melee damage and haste does not. Unless of course you drop Immolate and Corruption from the cast sequence but even then I show damage ahead for both builds (though the gap gets closed significantly). Am I missing something?
I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should buy BoJ gear in 2.3 that has spellhaste on it, less spell damage, no crit or hit compared to my current gear.. all about maximizing my DPS..
I raid 0/21/40 i'll be picking up the s3 spellblade for a 146 damage increase (w/ soulfrost) over my current weapon very soon. and i've got about 250 dkp to spend on SSC/TK loot (we're phase 4 on KT so should be entering MH/BT Soonish)
just wondering how many badges I should collect for that gear as I've never used spellhaste before in calculations.
Spirit
If you have a Priest with Improved Divine Spirit present, 10% (not 5) of your Spirit goes to spell power. Therefore 1 Spirit = 0.1 spell damage.
Affliction
On the first note, add Siphon Life to the list of spells to keep up.
Demo
The ranking says Spell hit > Spell Haste > Spell damage > Spell Crit, but Damage beats haste with Demo, because the Demon gets 57% of +damage you have and Demo still casts Corruption and Immolate, which get little returns from haste.
The excel spreadsheet tells me (it may vary a little bit but it stays in that range):
1critrate = ~0.84 dmg
1hasterate = ~0.87 dmg
1hitrate = ~1.37 if not capped, 0 if capped
Shouldn't be Hit > Spell Damage > Haste/Crit ?
On top of that, If we consider that ISB also gives a boost to the affli locks & sp dots (and not only the personal dps boost) the critrate should be a little bit higher.
The excel spreadsheet tells me (it may vary a little bit but it stays in that range):
1critrate = ~0.84 dmg
1hasterate = ~0.87 dmg
1hitrate = ~1.37 if not capped, 0 if capped
Shouldn't be Hit > Spell Damage > Haste/Crit ?
On top of that, If we consider that ISB also gives a boost to the affli locks & sp dots (and not only the personal dps boost) the critrate should be a little bit higher.
Not according to ShadowSeer, which translates gained casting time into Shadow Bolt spam plus lifetaps (and incorporates ISB in the calculations). It consistently gives me slightly higher numbers for haste over crit. Haste does suffer from high diminishing returns, though.
I'm not sure why the spreadsheet would different. 0/21/40 typically uses only shadow bolts and curses, though. If you include Immolate or Corruption you might see different results.
The excel spreadsheet tells me (it may vary a little bit but it stays in that range):
1critrate = ~0.84 dmg
1hasterate = ~0.87 dmg
1hitrate = ~1.37 if not capped, 0 if capped
Shouldn't be Hit > Spell Damage > Haste/Crit ?
On top of that, If we consider that ISB also gives a boost to the affli locks & sp dots (and not only the personal dps boost) the critrate should be a little bit higher.
One thing that is not mentioned at all in the compendium yet, and which maybe is worth mentioning: If your crit increases, you improve not only your own DPS, but also the DPS of your fellow warlocks and shadow priests in the raid via increasing ISB uptime.
Since I wanted to have numbers that are at least a little more precise than handwaving, I tried to include an estimate of the Raid DPS gain via my contribution to ISB-Uptime into my own spreadsheet. While it is not 100% precise, the estimate is not that bad either.
And the results (0/21/40 spec here) were more or less what I expected: For individual DPS, yes, critrating hovers somewhere between 0,8 and 0,9 spelldamage, but for raid DPS it jumps up to between 1,1 and 1,3 spelldamage, of course heavily dependent of the number (and spec) of the other warlocks and shadow priests in the raid.
(...) And the results (0/21/40 spec here) were more or less what I expected: For individual DPS, yes, critrating hovers somewhere between 0,8 and 0,9 spelldamage, but for raid DPS it jumps up to between 1,1 and 1,3 spelldamage, of course heavily dependent of the number (and spec) of the other warlocks and shadow priests in the raid.
I'm really interrested by that. Could you please share what you have added to the spreadsheet ?
It would be very interesting to calculate the relative stats coeff based on the raid composition intead of the personal dps impact.
Are you sure on the gem requirement for this? I know I've seen it mentioned several times on wowhead and thottbot but there's a warlock poster on these forums I armoried that has it equipped and his other gems would break that gemming requirement (he stacks mostly yellow crit/damage gems). The World of Warcraft Armory
Not sure if the armory would show us rather or not the gem was active but it does appear to be active.
I actually have an [Imbued Unstable Diamond] in my bank, and I can confirm that it requires exactly 3 yellow gems. I don't know why the sites don't show the requirement; it shows clearly on the item in game. I'm keeping it for possible use when I reduce my yellow gems as I get more +hit on my gear.
edit: For anyone curious about the encounter, it seemed trivial compared to Gruul. My guild did the event on a whim when our Gruul raid finished 5 minutes before the event started. We had no idea what would happen and basically just tanked the bosses and AoE'd everything else.
I've been having a hard time deciding whether or not haste would be viable when one has a high variable latency of 400-600 ms. I suppose my logic is with such high latency regardless of how well SBs are stopcasted, stopping some will take long enough to negate any benefit one would get from haste. Would someone with high latency benefit less from haste than someone with say roughly 100ms or less? Or is my logic flawed?
I've been having a hard time deciding whether or not haste would be viable when one has a high variable latency of 400-600 ms. I suppose my logic is with such high latency regardless of how well SBs are stopcasted, stopping some will take long enough to negate any benefit one would get from haste. Would someone with high latency benefit less from haste than someone with say roughly 100ms or less? Or is my logic flawed?
Someone with highly varying latency might see less benefit (although you could make the argument they could be safer while being more aggressive with stopcasting). Having high latency by itself shouldn't matter, though. I would still say that haste will give the same % benefit since no matter the lag, you're just able to stopcast a little more aggressively and still be safe.
Also keep in mind 2.3 is likely coming very soon, so there will be changes to the stopcasting mechanic.
11/01/07, 6:06 PM
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