Torq

Ah, I see. That's much better. I was looking at it from the wrong direction. This is much simpler, and gives much nicer numbers (63.925% theoretical vs. 63.959% from a simulator)

So now I'm working on how to get Average ISB uptime from that (as in how long is the buff up on average)..

Oh nevermind, looking at it now, they're completely unrelated. Number of charges consumed per second is independant of how many charges there actually are; whether or not the ISB is up, the same number of charges would have been consumed.

 

Tobolin

except we raid with one mage, and hes 40/0/21, aka no point. sigh, the wws i was going to link expired on the 18th =\ but it was a mage doing 2700+ on gorefiend as arcane. not saying taht its the *best* spec by any means, id prefer to have a fire mage myself, id like to try incinerate out... but arcane seems to do comparable dmg.

"as long as the raid has two or more mages" --- exept again, we dont. that'd be about as effective as casting cow while having a warrior do imp demo.

 

• frmorrison

Assuming that Mage speced correctly (Fire), he would be doing more dps than that.

Even with just one Mage in the raid, assuming he could do 1850 dps (ignoring any Warlock fire dps), casting CoE increased raid dps over using CoD.

CoW is pretty worthless, having a Warrior cast it every 2 minutes or so isn't much an issue (unless they are a bad player).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Freakz0r

Hi
First of all this thread has been a great help to me and I'm quite glad with the positive discussion going around here.
However with 2.4.2 on PTR and checking WoR i saw that caster dagger with 0spl dmg and ~230haste, What do u think about this item ? and can u make a macro for example something like this :
#showtooltip Shadowbolt r11
/equip pvp dagger
/stopcasting
/cast shadowbolt r11
/equip ToC
AFAIK spl dmg is only counted when the bolt is released while haste is applied when the cast starts. What do u think of this?

 

toth

Sounds like a sweet hack if you're right :p

 

LockApologist

Weapon swaps initiate a GCD, more than negating any benefit you might get for slightly higher haste. And, since you're clearly swapping before you cast, you can't hide the swap in cast time.

 

Turbo Moses

I just tested it, and yes, haste is calculated at the beginning of spell cast (of course) and spell damage when the bolt is fired. Which means when this weapon comes out, that macro (which SHOULD work) will be absolute hax, as stated. A weapon that 227 haste and 247 damage is absolutely, utterly...I don't even know what to say. It's of course going to be hotfixed quickly, if it isn't before S4. But before it is, take advantage of it.


Ah, didn't know about GCD, I just did it for one cast, which it DOES benefit for, if you made a macro that switched the weapon after each cast, you still get a reduced cast half the time, but also reduced damage. So you'd effectively be getting a weapon with 123.5 damage and 113.5 haste which is still pretty solid.

 

Smurrf

That macro's worth thinking about. I believe you'd actually have to make two macros to get any kind of use out of it, though, and switch back and forth...and there's a good chance that you'd actually receive less benefit than just using one or the other.

#showtooltip Shadow Bolt
/cast Shadow Bolt
/equip spl dmg dagger

#showtooltip Shadow Bolt
/cast Shadow Bolt
/equip haste dagger

Ideally, you'd be bouncing back and forth between the two macros, so as to get one cast that's extremely hasted with lots more damage, but another cast that would end up not being hasted at all, and also much less damage. I simply am not the number cruncher, so I don't know how this would actually perform. Is it an even split? Does it actually tank your dps a little bit? Or would it actually increase slightly?

A note here though...perhaps you could macro the haste dagger into the end of LT, so that it's all prepped for a swap out at the beginning of a SB spam run. Again, though, not sure how well it'd work out.
This kind of setup, though, is the only way I can see to get continuous casts off without triggering a GCD just to get the hasted weapon into play each time. Anyone else have any better ideas?

Edit: Affliction locks might actually get great use out of this, macroing all their dots to equip the haste dagger at the end, which would set it up to have it on hand for the first SB after refreshing a dot. This would allow their dots to go up quicker (due to lessened GCD), and let them get back to SB'ing.

 

LockApologist

No, it's not. As you gain a GCD which is much longer than 113.5 or even 227 haste gives you.

You'd have to do a set of macros like Smurff mentions, and I'd bet that having 1 hasted, +dmg bolt and a non-hasted, non-dmg bolt would not be as good as just using one weapon.

 

pebbles

Which gem would be better at 1500 spell dmage full raid buff and flask.

i was wondering cause haste > spells per point, but would that 1 spell damage make it better then haste stam?

 

clavarnway

Spreadsheet

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

• frmorrison

This, I don't see it as a viable idea however it works very well on the first spell cast and after life taps, so it could be a dps boost if you didn't have much static haste, maybe even then with below 120 static haste.

Nuke macro would be:

/cast Nuke
/equip normal Spell damage weapon

Then for Life Tap
/cast Life Tap
/equip 227 Haste weapon (note this will cause a 1.5 second GCD that cannot be changed)

You also could swap to your haste weapon when you are spending 1.5 running away from the many many fires.


It is a good thing much players don't have a 2050 rating, this may cause issues .

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Latas

Shouldn't you actually add something more like 133 in combat mp5 to account for this potion? Basically assuming you use one every 120 seconds it essentially becomes 26.6(repeating) mana per second, then multiply by 5 for mp5 and you get equivalent 133.3(also repeating) mp5 for those 120 seconds.

Please tell me if i missed anything.

 

PSGarak

I think he means an additional 50mp/5 in comparison to a normal mana potions, which he would be chugging otherwise.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Turbo Moses

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, but if you bound the haste weapon to any spell that is not a main nuke, but uses a GCD (curses, deathcoil, shadowburn, life tap (as posted), healthstones, potions, and anything else you might use), and then had your SB equip your damage weapon, you'd still be getting an overall increase in damage, that, depending on how it's used, could be pretty substantial, You could even bind the weapon swap macro to something close to SB so whenever you're NOT DPSing you could switch, would be a lot of effort, but would honestly be a nice challenge in addition to spamming 1 for shadow destro, and might be a considerable enough increase to be worth it.

 

• frmorrison

HS and potions do not have a GCD, it does seem like a good idea to bind the haste weapon to all GCD spells though.

It does add some complexity to Shadow Destro which would be nice, btw Sunwell raids with 1 Shadow Lock + other Fire Locks is better than all Shadow Locks.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

doogless

Does haste gear affect the GCD incurred when you swap weapons?

My concern:
-Let's say I have 7% spell haste (with my normal spell damage weapon), which means a Life Tap takes 1.4 seconds of GCD
-I use my /cast Life Tap /equip Brutal Gladiator's Blade of Alacrity macro
-- If the GCD incurred from weapon swapping isn't shortened by my spell haste gear, then I effectively lost 0.1 seconds on that Life Tap cast. I'll still gain more than that back on my next Shadow Bolt, but it's still something to consider when trying to figure out how much you'd gain by swapping in a haste weapon.

That said, I don't know the mechanics of spell haste and the weapon swapping GCD. If anyone knows (I don't have the gear to test it myself), please set me straight.

 

• frmorrison

No, which does limit the usage of the Spell Haste weapon macro.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Vlar

Armory question: I was under the impression that armory's paper doll crit did not include Devestation, since it was not based on the school of magic, but the type.

I was looking over my WWS of a couple nights ago, and out of 772 shadowbolt casts (Edit: hits, not casts), I had a 21% crit rate. My current paper doll crit rate is 20.1%. Was I wrong to think that Devestation is not added to the armory crit?

 

• frmorrison

You are correct, Devestation does not count for paper doll spell crit. You have an expected crit rate of 25%, but only got 21%.


The reason for that is due to the RNG and the level based crit reduction (between 1-3%).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Trickykid

No, it's not added in there since that crit rate shows for all spells and Devastation is for destruction spells only.

 

Vlar

Ok. Thank you. With the level based crit reduction, does the Spreadsheet happen to take that into account, or should I be lowering my crit on my spreadsheet a bit?

 

Arelenda

I'm still not convinced this is actually true. Can you back this up with solid facts?

 

Trickykid

On the spreadsheet, going between fire and shadow sets/specs the amount fire beats shadow by outweighs the lost DPS from isb by 50-100 with my raid-makeup. I would imagine it's going to differ by raid since that spread is so close.

 

tetracycloide

The spread sheet only models the loss of shadow DPS, not the overall loss of DPS. It will miss factors like the reduction in raid damage lost from the reduced mana returned by shadow priests and raid utilty lost by reduction in health returned by shadow priests.

With the spread being that close and the utility loss I'd say that the actual raid benifit of moving to fire destro is pretty questionable.

My vanity is justified.