Can anyone explain to me why Leulier's 2.4 dps spreadsheet doesn't change your overall DPS number when you tell it to put points into Improved LoP for Succubus build? I would assume adding Imp LoP would up DPS at least a little bit...?
Can anyone explain to me why Leulier's 2.4 dps spreadsheet doesn't change your overall DPS number when you tell it to put points into Improved LoP for Succubus build? I would assume adding Imp LoP would up DPS at least a little bit...?
LoP shouldn't be used in raids since it uses ISB charges.
According to winternight from Sk a GM confirmed that anyone within the circle will get the buff, no matter if he's in your group or not, but that it is currently bugged and works only for yourself. In any way, it's definitely the best trinket to get along with the skull.
The GM that said that wasn't sure what it was supposed to do. Anyone who stands in the circle gets the buff, but the buff doesn't work on your character. If it's supposed to work with the whole raid it is insanely overpowered and I will have /follow on Caelyn during our raids from now on.
Can you update the original post with your stats (in addition to the gear outline) and I'll link to it in the compendium.
I think a WWS parse is needed before this can be added to the compendium since many things can affect the results of tests like this. For example, if the caster is loosing time between casts a Ruin build might generate more dps at any gear level since UA requires an additional cast but Ruin is a passive bonus to existing casts.
Testing 202 points in +hit against Dr. Boom isn't a proper test of hit cap since he's only level 68; most of the +hit is wasted on him.
So while I think it's really useful for people to run tests like this, I think you should hold off on adding it to the compendium until there is some more hard data.
Does anyone know of any addons which can keep track of debuffs that are not cast by you? For example all the other warlock's immolate in the raid.
I'm looking for an addon similar to scorchio only it keeps track of immolate instead of scorch. If anyone could give me direction to somewhere that I can learn the basics of addons to modify that one that would also be appreciated.
Either extremely overpowered, if its a group buff, or a downgrade from the Skull, if its a solo buff.
Can we get these loots in the spreadsheet?
I put the ring and the trinket in the spreadsheet myself and assuming it is only supposed to work for yourself it should be at 40 +dmg and 54 +haste rating, above the shrunken head but below the skull. Unless you don't need the hit, then the skull is about 15 dps lower.
However if it does work for others, it is WAAAAAAY over the skull in dps.
I think a WWS parse is needed before this can be added to the compendium since many things can affect the results of tests like this. For example, if the caster is loosing time between casts a Ruin build might generate more dps at any gear level since UA requires an additional cast but Ruin is a passive bonus to existing casts.
Testing 202 points in +hit against Dr. Boom isn't a proper test of hit cap since he's only level 68; most of the +hit is wasted on him.
So while I think it's really useful for people to run tests like this, I think you should hold off on adding it to the compendium until there is some more hard data.
While I agree with your point, two corrections:
- we already know that capping hit is the way to go (on bosses). All tests have confirmed this. There is no debate there. For other stats, if the caster is hit capped, the results are valid. Only crit suppression might be a factor: you crit less on bosses than on a 68, but we don't know the exact extent of the difference so it is hard to measure.
- if a caster is losing time due to lag, I'd say a dot build woukd have less issues with this, not more. Losing time to lag results in less filler spells being cast. You will some shadow bolts, over a long period, but UA will still be up most of the time.
The GM that said that wasn't sure what it was supposed to do. Anyone who stands in the circle gets the buff, but the buff doesn't work on your character. If it's supposed to work with the whole raid it is insanely overpowered and I will have /follow on Caelyn during our raids from now on.
Perhaps the spelldamage increase from the buff will only be triggered if the trinket is equipped, would make sense if ther buff is applied but not the spelldamage bonus to people but the trinket holder.
Does anyone know of any addons which can keep track of debuffs that are not cast by you? For example all the other warlock's immolate in the raid.
I'm looking for an addon similar to scorchio only it keeps track of immolate instead of scorch. If anyone could give me direction to somewhere that I can learn the basics of addons to modify that one that would also be appreciated.
If you're using PitBull [or CowTip, I guess], you can just use DogTags.
[if HasAura("Immolate", unit="target") then
Green("Immolate")
else
Red("Immolate")
end]
I'm at work, so the syntax might not be perfect, but...should work.
we already know that capping hit is the way to go (on bosses). All tests have confirmed this. There is no debate there. For other stats, if the caster is hit capped, the results are valid. Only crit suppression might be a factor: you crit less on bosses than on a 68, but we don't know the exact extent of the difference so it is hard to measure.
I wasn't trying to suggest that there was any debate about the value of hit. It was of just a general point for people who wanted to test this more extensively on Dr. Boom. If people have gear that is hit capped for a boss but want to test with a higher level of +dmg or +crit than their boss set has, on a Dr. Boom test they could drop some of their hit gear for gear with those stats and still be doing a test against a mob they were hit capped for. That is, if they normally have +1200 dmg and +202 hit on their gear, on Dr. Boom they can drop some of the 202 hit if that's the only way they can test +1300 dmg.
- we already know that capping hit is the way to go (on bosses). All tests have confirmed this. There is no debate there. For other stats, if the caster is hit capped, the results are valid. Only crit suppression might be a factor: you crit less on bosses than on a 68, but we don't know the exact extent of the difference so it is hard to measure.
The problem with his post is two-fold. First, the test has no check to make sure crit rates are equivalent. There is no WWS to check for lucky/unlucky streaks, plus he referred to maxing Devastation in his respec, which should have been part of his UA spec as well.
More importantly, his conclusions are not supported by his data. Aside from testing only a single specific gearset, he assumed that the dominant factor determining the benefit of UA vs Ruin was spell hit. He completely ignored the affect spell crit might have a on a talent which boosts crit damage. Remember that a lock with 25% crit and 0 hit will crit more often than a hit capped lock with 20% crit.
Originally Posted by Arelenda
- if a caster is losing time due to lag, I'd say a dot build woukd have less issues with this, not more. Losing time to lag results in less filler spells being cast. You will some shadow bolts, over a long period, but UA will still be up most of the time.
While this is the case for the way we traditionally think of lag, I have personally found the opposite can be true. When I'm spamming shadowbolts, I can easily string them together with less than 0.05s between. When I have to press different keys with different timing to renew my dots, I can never get that same level of precision.
The problem with his post is two-fold. First, the test has no check to make sure crit rates are equivalent. There is no WWS to check for lucky/unlucky streaks, plus he referred to maxing Devastation in his respec, which should have been part of his UA spec as well.
More importantly, his conclusions are not supported by his data. Aside from testing only a single specific gearset, he assumed that the dominant factor determining the benefit of UA vs Ruin was spell hit. He completely ignored the affect spell crit might have a on a talent which boosts crit damage. Remember that a lock with 25% crit and 0 hit will crit more often than a hit capped lock with 20% crit.
While this is the case for the way we traditionally think of lag, I have personally found the opposite can be true. When I'm spamming shadowbolts, I can easily string them together with less than 0.05s between. When I have to press different keys with different timing to renew my dots, I can never get that same level of precision.
I agree on all points. I stand corrected.
I personally noticed the last point last night, when I had to spec into affliction to get SE. While I can easily chain shadow bolts and get a feel for the lag on each, when mixing it with instant dots I'd lose a bit of time, mostly on the instant spells. Maybe with practice I can get better at this, but it most definitely is a factor.
Does anyone know of any addons which can keep track of debuffs that are not cast by you? For example all the other warlock's immolate in the raid.
I'm looking for an addon similar to scorchio only it keeps track of immolate instead of scorch. If anyone could give me direction to somewhere that I can learn the basics of addons to modify that one that would also be appreciated.
try to ask Scorchio author directly, his contacts are in addon TOC file, otherwise try to ask on wowace.com forums.
Any idea if crit suppresion on a boss is taken into account in the DPS Spreadsheet? I'm aware that it isn't possible to model accurately, but if each Warlock's crit percentage would theoratically be lower on a boss - surely crit rating would then be more valuable than simulated (this is assuming crit suppresion isn't accounted for at all). I'm at a point in my gear where haste, crit rating and damage all have very comparable DPS values to each other, and little changes such as crit suppresion not being modeled may tilt the balance in favor of say crit raiting over haste.
I personally noticed the last point last night, when I had to spec into affliction to get SE. While I can easily chain shadow bolts and get a feel for the lag on each, when mixing it with instant dots I'd lose a bit of time, mostly on the instant spells. Maybe with practice I can get better at this, but it most definitely is a factor.
I definitely notice I lose my timing a touch after casting instant corruption. When casting shadowbolts all in a row I get in a rhythm and am also watching quartz for when to cast the next spell. For immolation I'm watching quartz. With the instant casts like curses and corruption since there is no cast time but the GCD is triggered it throws my timing off a touch. I might lose a fraction of a second before the next cast and usually its because I try to cast too soon so I get the "spell not ready yet" message. Then I cast again and I'm fine but I probably missed a bit of time by pressing the button too soon.
Any idea if crit suppresion on a boss is taken into account in the DPS Spreadsheet? I'm aware that it isn't possible to model accurately, but if each Warlock's crit percentage would theoratically be lower on a boss - surely crit rating would then be more valuable than simulated (this is assuming crit suppresion isn't accounted for at all). I'm at a point in my gear where haste, crit rating and damage all have very comparable DPS values to each other, and little changes such as crit suppresion not being modeled may tilt the balance in favor of say crit raiting over haste.
Actually, depending on how the crit suppression worked, it might be worth less since each point could be discounted. All we really know about spell crit suppression is that it appears to be lower than expected, but it's very hard to distinguish the difference between a flat -2% drop in crit against +3level mobs or if its a 0.9 multiplier. Depending on which it is, the answer to your question would change.
As far as the sheet is concerned, it shows expected values (without any discount).
Yes, it is currently not taken into account into the spreadsheet. I never add it because as Trickykid said, we don't know the exact value of the crit suppression. Now that I think about it, I will ad a cell with a crit suppression value user can change (like dot gap), and put a realistic default value like 2% crit. This will be more accurate than to completely ignoring it.
Quartz does have an option to display a GCD bar... it's not on by default.
That it does, but I think the key issue is that you can hit the server side pseudo-queue when chaincasting shadow bolt because you aren't locked out by the GCD, so all your bolts can effectively cast with zero latency (i.e. you can hit the cast slightly early client side, and it will still work). When casting spells at 1.5s or less, the client side GCD typically blocks you from being able to hit the queue.
That it does, but I think the key issue is that you can hit the server side pseudo-queue when chaincasting shadow bolt because you aren't locked out by the GCD, so all your bolts can effectively cast with zero latency (i.e. you can hit the cast slightly early client side, and it will still work). When casting spells at 1.5s or less, the client side GCD typically blocks you from being able to hit the queue.
I have noticed that instant spells don't block my trinkets for the duration, while other spells do.
I have noticed that instant spells don't block my trinkets for the duration, while other spells do.
That is because trinket popping does not proc the global cooldown so even if it is on the global cooldown your character is essentially "not busy" and therefore able to pop them.
Yes, it is currently not taken into account into the spreadsheet. I never add it because as Trickykid said, we don't know the exact value of the crit suppression. Now that I think about it, I will ad a cell with a crit suppression value user can change (like dot gap), and put a realistic default value like 2% crit. This will be more accurate than to completely ignoring it.
Excellent, thank you.
Edit: I was also wondering how someone would go about finding the maths behind the various mechanics within the game. Would GMs be aware of such details (doubtfull), or are there set forums/emails for these sorts of questions (R&D perhaps) that usually yield satisfacroty answers?
05/04/08, 5:02 PM
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