clavarnway

Ah, so what would be the best way to gauge how I'm doing? Find other WWS's from other guilds and see how those Warlocks are doing? As I said, I don't get to raid much, so I doubt I will get a chance to do one of those ideal fights like you are talking about, the day I get to raid we are usually doing progression bosses and I don't see Teron or Rage coming up any time soon.

I tried searching on WWS's site but the only way I could find to search was it showed the highest ranked guilds first, that didn't help much, as it just makes me feel crappy seeing how much better they are all doing. :p

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

rochan

IMO a warlock who gets to use a damage curse should always be top 5, assuming the raid is equally geared and the fight doesn't tailor to one class extensively. We are a very powerful DPS class. If they are doing a bitch curse, then top 10-15 is more likely. Warlock DPS seems to skyrocket late T5 and once you reach T6. Gear allows more warlocks to use destruction effectively and the ISB bump is huge. I was doing 1000 dps back on Hydross but now I can easily do 1700-1800 mashing my face over the keyboard.

 

Aliah_KT

First of all let me just say thank you to the original author of this thread and all of the authors of excellent information that has subsequently been posted. I have not read through every single post, so forgive me for missing something if I did, but I have seen some vague references to diminishing returns on Spell Haste and Spell Damage and was wondering if anyone has any hard figures on these numbers. Also, can someone confirm that, as of patch 2.3 (today), the Spell Haste coefficient is indeed 15.77 instead of 20.8?

Thank you in advance for your input!

 

RNemes

It seems clear that the Chaotic Skyfire Diamond will be *the* Gem to get for 0/21/40 now, but I have been wondering just *how* good exactly is it? My guild is just at the stage of working on Vashj now so we have a ways to go before some of the more obvious choices of helms with Meta gem sockets are available from BT.

My decision is a fairly big one then: Keep my Spellstrike Hood complete with proc or replace that with the Engineering helm? (that being the only one i see that is competitive---)

Normally I make great use of the Trinket-wiki for class/spec at Shadowpriest.com to measure the dps of procs and gems, but CSD does not seem to be up there yet so I have tried to figure it out for myself:

Assuming Crit rate of 25% and an average Shadowbolt crit of 6000 over the course of 10 Shadowbolts we have: (this is taking the CSD bonus to be 1.06 given the scaling with Ruin)

(with no CSD) 2.5 * 6000 = 15,000 dmg.

(with CSD) 2.5 * (6000 * 1.06) = 15,900 dmg. So 900 damage is gained over 10 shadowbolts from the CSD.

Assuming a "perfect world" scenario, 10 shadowbolts should take 25 seconds to cast, so (900dmg/25 seconds) = + 36 DPS.

Feeding this DPS result into the leulier spreadsheet, it converts into ~+45 dmg (for my spec).

Without delving too far into the minutiae of my particular situation, suffice it to say that it would be an ultimate gain of about the equivalence of +15 dmg or so for me. (the loss of the SS proc and the need to shuffle some gems around to stay at the hit cap gimp my potential gain here)

This is all assuming my math and methodology are anywhere near being correct.

I am still not sure it is an entirely worthwhile trade-off at this point. (As I would need to drop a profession and level up engineering.)

But this is why I am posting here. Does anyone see an obvious flaw with this method of quantifying the exact dps worth of CSD?

 

Trickykid

Check the linked spreadsheet in the original post.

That was changed in 2.2.

 

rochan

I calculate about +30 dps from the crit bonus (x2.06) and another +10 dps from the 14 CR. This is at very high end gear. (approx Leulier 2100 dps w/destro).

 

Trickykid

I think you're double counting the bonus. The gem gives you 3% more damage over your previous crit damage. For non-ruin that means Base*1.5*1.03. For Ruin that means Base*2*1.03. You were doing Base*2*1.06.

 

• Suggestive

With ruin and CSD, crits are 206%.

 

LockApologist

You probably need to adjust your DoT gap on the sheet to reflect reality a bit more. Also remember the sheet expects perfect play, and calculates for partial shadowbolts (all your time not spent casting dots/LT is assumed to be SB, even if that is not a whole number of SB casts.

 

RNemes

+30 dps sounds about right to me once you throw out the "perfect world" scenario and enter the scenario of life-tapping, etc.

(and just a nit, but the CR bonus itself is just 12.)

 

Gnomey

I read about the whole thread last night. One thing I am really curious is where can I get the new Pet snacks in 2.3? I also read the patch notes, and it didn't seem to say anything about the new pet snacks.

Thx in advance.

 

Aliah_KT

I appreciate all the hard work that has gone into the DPS spreadsheet that everyone seems so fond of using on this forum, but that's not exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping someone knew of the actual formula for diminishing returns on Spell Haste and/or Spell Damage, or even some kind of conversion table if applicable. I'll keep playing around with the spreadsheet in the meantime, but I haven't been able to find anything of this sort imbedded in the existing calculations yet. I may just be missing something, but if any of you have further info on this I would love it.

Thank you for giving me confirmation on the Spell Haste rating. I thought that was a 2.3 change... my bad! :-D

 

Arelenda

Someone mentioned +20str and sta. I haven't verified this myself.

Patch notes tend to be outdated all the time, though. I assume it'll be in.


To other posters:
Haste was indeed changed to 15.77 for 1% in 2.2, I wrote a hastehack a while ago to get your haste rating on screen (replacing the penetration value). I uploaded it here: Hastehack - Interface Bars - World of Warcraft Mods, Addons, and More!.


The +3% crit damage gem seems impressive, as soon as the patch hits I'd like to see data on it. I don't have a meta gem slot hat at the moment so I can't test it myself, but I'm very interested to see confirmed results of the 3% bonus interacting with ruin.

Simple math for the new gem: let's take best case scenario:
- Assuming 33% crit chance
- No spells but Shadow Bolt used
- The 3% is added after Ruin, so total of 206%

A 3% damage boost to 33% of your spells is about a 1% gain in dps. This is the
equivalent of about 20 spell power.

 

Roywyn

When I tested it on the PTR, it worked like the old RED/resilience before the change.
It increases base crit damage from 150% to 154.5%, thus increases the crit bonus from 50% to 54.5%, and ruin makes it 109%, this critting for 209%.
That's the last I checked on the PTR (confirmed by others) with checking min/max values of certain spells.

 

Chimera

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your question, however if not: there are no diminishing returns on haste. At least, not until you get your shadow bolt cast time down to 1.5 seconds, which really isn't going to happen with any type of reasonable gear.

Here, I made you a picture showing how haste effects cast time and dps:


As you can see from the second graph, shadow bolt DPS scales linearly with haste, it has no diminishing returns.

Is this what you were asking? Or were you asking about the relative scaling of haste vs spell damage? IE the more spell damage you have, the more (absolute) DPS you gain from haste, and likewise the more haste you have the more DPS you gain from spell damage.

 

Trickykid

The reason I referenced the spreadsheet was that there aren't really any generalized formula for total DPS. The return from any rating point is a function of the stats you currently have. As I gain spell damage/crit/hit, the DPS gain per haste rating will increase. Technically every rating point has diminishing returns since an additional point will be a smaller percent gain (100->101 is a 1% gain, 101->102 is a 0.99% gain). But at the rating levels most will be working with, this is going to be such a small factor, it's not worth worrying about.

A generalized formula would have to be pretty complex because the benefit of an additional point of any given rating is a function of all of the other ratings. I've been thinking of trying to work out that formula but it's really not worth it when the spreadsheet contains all the actionable information. Your best bet is to plug the numbers into a spreadsheet and see how the ratings pan out.

 

rochan

Mathematically it has no diminishing returns vs DPS as you've proven, however, when you include lifetapping, there are slight diminishing returns vs dps because Lifetap gets no benefit from haste.

And by using the Leulier sheet, you can see Haste diminishes relative to +damage. (I.e. keeping +damage constant while increasing haste has diminishing returns of haste vs +dmg.)

However, keeping haste constant and increasing +damage increases haste's relative +damage.

 

galzohar

Actually if you had no regen other than lifetap haste shouldn't have diminishing returns, as you need to lifetap every X shadowbolts, so haste would effect a certain (large) portion of your casts and that portion would remain equal regardless of how much haste you have.

However regen natureally removes the need to lifetap once per X seconds, but since with haste you lifetap more often your regen removes a smaller part of your lifetaps and thus lifetapping becomes a larger portion of your casts. So if you have any regen it'll cause haste to have slight diminishing returns, and the more regen you have the larger the diminishing retunrs be.

Of course haste is still better with regen than with no regen no matter how much regen you have (as lifetaps are a smaller portion of your casting time). In fact, haste will never be worse than for a warlock with 0 regen. It's just that the more haste you get the (slightly) closer you get to getting the benefit of a 0 regen warlock (since your regen becomes less and less significant in comparison to lifetap).

 

Trickykid

Haste only affects the portion of casting time that is spent Bolting. That portion decreases as haste increases (since you lifetap every X bolts, and those bolts happen faster now). That means that each additional point of haste affects a smaller portion of your total DPS time and thus helps less than the previous point if you include Life taps. You can see the results in the sheet as well (or doing some napkin math).

 

galzohar

On a side note, remember that any kind of diminishing retunrs (or changes in relative values of stats) I've seen so far in the game is totally neglicible when comparing actual items. As in the change in the value of *any* stat due to switching 1-2 items or a few gems is very very small compared ot how much your DPS actually changed from those stats changing. Say (just making up numbers) if at 900 spell damage 1 damage is worth 0.7 crit, and at 920 it's worth 0.69 crit, the fact its value dropped has a neglicible affect on the overall value. If you increased crit by 10 as well, you would get nearly the same results as if you increased damage by 927 even though in reality you got slightly slightly more.
Mathematically this can be shown that 1% DPS increase VIA crit plus 1% DPS increase via spell damage results in DPS*1.01*1.01=DPS*(1+0.1)^2=DPS*(1+0.02+0.01^2)=DPS*(1+0.02+0.0001)~=DPS*1.02. And TBH quite a few item upgrades are under 1% DPS increase total so this rule of "neglect AEP values changing with your stats when comparing items" is actually pretty damn accurate.

Thinking about it you're right, the faster you're casting the smaller % of the time is spent on shadowbolts thus haste does diminish regardless of regen.

 

Nas

I've been playing around with the new "anti-stopcast" mechanism that has been implemented, I'm not sure if I'm the only one noticing this but it seems to me that if I time my casts and press my Shadowbolt key when I would usually stopcast it the spell just keeps going over the majority of Quartz's "latency area" before stopping and casting the next cast. I'm not sure if I am being dilusional, but it seems that stopcasting might still have the slight edge if one times it correctly without cancelling any spells?

 

• frmorrison

I have been casting spells right cast the red line with the new system, but I have a good connection. You can still /stopcast if you think that will perform better.


I am interesting to see some Destro Locks with the new meta showing some old and new WWS. MSD really sucks (of course I knew it would), but as Affliction I like it better than just another 12 damage.

Both "main" JWers got CSD after 40 or so kills, so that farming wasn't bad for them.

 

PSGarak

The new pet strength food recipe is a possible reward from the cooking daily quests. By "possible" reward I mean you choose between a crate of meat and a barrel of fish, each of which have a chance to contain a random new recipe, as well as more meat than the daily actually required, on average. I am unaware if certain recipes only drop out of crates or barrels, or if the recipes are entirely shared.

[Kibler's Bits] Kibler's Bits - Items - World of Warcraft requires Buzzard Meat

EDIT: wrong recipe ><

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Tyvyr

I used Sporeling Snacks on my imp on Sunday night (Nov 11), and it appeared to work just fine. At least, the food buff showed up on under the imp's portrait. Is this an issue where we see the graphic, but the pet doesn't actually receive the benefits?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud..../4676bNDwv.png

 

Nas

I'd like to touch a bit on threat management as 0/21/40, I seem to always be threat capped over the vast majority of some fights' durations; namely Naj'entus/Rage and sometimes on Teron Gorefiend. Our MT's threat is by no means low, in fact it is top end, and after some thinking I attributed my issues to blowing SoulShatter as soon as I am threat capped, often around the 70% mark of a fight instead of putting up with some DPS downtime and using it closer to the halfway mark - the downtime I would have waiting for the optimal time to shatter would be far less than that I would have to put up with if I shatter too early. That's how I see it anyway.

Just wanted see how other Warlocks in the community deal with threat, if you're putting out the high DPS on a fight with minimal movement requirements, when would you rather slow it down a bit - how do you usually time your shatters? Would downranking Shadowbolt when one is high on threat at the early stages be a good idea? Seeing how part of our utility is ISB, and how we would not be excercising that utility by standing around.