Faldrath

It does cause threat, I have a Hydross wipe way back when we were learning the fight to prove it.

 

Torq

Looks like I'll have to go tweak Omen to properly reflect this. Did you check Lifetap, considering it's a mana gain? I'll try to verify these sometime (I tend to get very little time to myself, between work and commutes and raids )

 

Shabaz

Any recommendations on pet selection from Leo tanks who don't use Soul Link? I've been respeccing for the fight, but was contemplating staying destro and trying it that way. I was trying to decide if the health bonus from the Imp (if I'm the only Warlock in the raid, which is likely) is better then the emergency sacrifice bonus of the VoidWalker.

 

taybul

If you're still learning the fight then you should really be soul link spec to give your healers a break. Plus, passive 70 fire resist from having the felpup out and soul link is invaluable for this fight.

Otherwise, the imp is probably the best choice. If your stacks get too high, you could always fel dom a void and sac (shield, not demo sac) it in time, assuming you're 21/40.

 

Shabaz

Thank you. I'm not new to the fight (done it a dozen times or so) and lately the healers dont seem to have issues keeping me standing even when the stacks get high, so I thought i might try and save the 100g a week and try it with my normal Destro build. Also, I was going to get the last 18 points of FR (to get to 295 prior to pally buff) from the Hyper-Radiant Flame Reflector. Anyone know if it's reflective property works at all against Leo?

 

Arnath

In most fights like this, if you activate your reflector the boss will start shooting at someone else. You probably don't want to do that. Also, I doubt it really matters what pet you choose, although an imp is probably the best choice. The tiny VW shield isn't going to do much.

 

Shabaz

I was thinking since Nether Protection isn't supposed to make Leo drop aggro that the reflector might also work in the same vein. (do more damage to the boss and not have him attack someone else)

 

Ele'

Life Tap does not generate threat. >> Source <<

 

Arelenda

Can anyone double check for Dark Pact? Easy to test, send in a nontaunting voidie and start Dark Pacting. If the enemy comes for you, it causes threat. Make sure the voidie got one hit in, and you actually gained mana, though.

 

Fimotik

Firstly, other than for learning, spec doesn't matter for this fight. When we were doing this guy, myself and the other lock tank used all 3 main specs for him and it didn't make a difference. I normally tanked as Affliction, so had my imp, if the destro lock tanked, I usually put my imp down for him putting it on stay at his tanking spot.

 

Silverstorm

Rain of Fire to empty mana bar.
Dark Pact does cause threat. Sent in Void with no auto abilities. Hit once for 113. Dark Pacted twice in melee range and pulled aggro.

Repeated test. Hit once for 108, dark pact twice in melee range, pulled aggro.

 

Kordansk

I tested this with a friend as well, and we were at over 1000% threat on the mob and it still didn't yank. So yes Omen is calculating threat from Soul Leech, however it doesn't actually cause it.

 

Arelenda

I had to spec affliction for Brutallus this week, so I checked it out myself.

Interesting enough, Dark Pact seems to cause a _fixed_ amount of threat. It does not scale with mana gained. I was able to pull aggro by dark pacting a manaless voidie.

If the mechanic was similar to health gained, 2k mana gained would be 2000*0.5*0.9=900 threat. I was never able to pull aggro off the voidie, not even with a 2K dark pact, despite him having only 100 threat.


My conclusion: it causes a trivial amount of fixed threat. For raid purposes this is equal to it causing no threat.

 

Torq

Unfortunately, my application of this isn't "for raid purposes," and thus trivial amounts of threat may or may not be quite so trivial. It'd be interesting to see how much those trivial amounts of threat add up over the course of, say 45 minutes or so. I'll take a look at this one, too. Maybe once I get all the values and changes worked out, I can roll them all into Omen and have it pushed out?

So far, things that generate threat:

Demonic Sac'd Voidwalker or Felpup
Health Funnel
Dark Pact (some small amount of fixed threat)

Things that do not generate threat:

Lifetap
Drain Mana
Soul Leech

Things that do not generate threat in addition to damage caused:

Deathcoil
Drain Life

 

Silverstorm

That's very interesting. I seem to recall from "way back when" that mana gains generate threat at 25% of mana gain. I was using max rank, which is about 1800 mana with no buffs. If I'm sitting outside the raid again tonight, I'll see if I can get more accurate numbers by using smaller ranks or less gear.

I agree whatever threat is caused is likely negligible in a raid situation, but now I'm curious!

 

Arelenda

Well, for the record, a 2000 mana life tap didn't outaggro one regular melee hit from the voidie for 100. I have the -10% threat talent, though.

4 consecutive lifetaps for no mana actually did outaggro a couple of hits. So I'd say DP gives somewhere between 50-100 fixed threat.

 

PSGarak

Should Soulfire be weaved into Firelock rotations?

Every now and again I remember that if it weren't for the shard requirement and high cooldown, soulfire is actually a stupidly good spell, just because it gets a one-third cast time reduction from talents. One soulfire should take less time to cast than two incinerates, do more damage than two incinerates, and costs significantly less mana than one incinerate... assuming it really is normalized to 6/3.5 seconds like it should be. I've heard some indications that it's not, but I'm never seen any careful analysis of this and 115% seems like a rather odd number to toss around. What is soulfire's normalization, and should firelocks consider using it, if for nothing else than its sheer mana efficiency?

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Gumibear

I'm fairly certain Soulfire's coefficient was nerfed from 6/3.5 to 1.15 in the first round of 2.0 nerfs, or maybe in TBC beta. It was a pvp nerf iirc.

 

queso12

Anyone worked out a version of the ideal gear list for warlock staff users?

I'm thinking something along the lines of:


[Hood of the Malefic]
[Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
[Amice of the Convoker]
[Tattered Cape of Antonidas]
[Sunfire Robe]
[Bracers of the Malefic]
[Grand Magister's Staff of Torrents]
[Wand of the Demonsoul]
[Sunfire Handwraps]
[Belt of the Malefic]
[Leggings of Calamity]
[Boots of the Malefic]
[Loop of Forged Power]
[Mana Attuned Band]
[The Skull of Gul'dan]
[Shifting Naaru Sliver]

 

Latas

Warlock staff users? Are you talking those people that pretty much limit themselves to just staves because...well just because, as far as i can tell. I've heard many different reasons, but to limit yourself for aesthetic reasons on the pieces of gear that give you the biggest increase, and then to want to piece together the best you can for the rest, just doesn't seem very logical to me.

But back to your question. I don't know why you have the mana attuned band in there over the ring of omnipotence, also the headpiece from KJ is more of a dps increase from t6 than the sunfire handwraps are, I think with the staff the gloves become the piece to keep out of the non-SWP t6 to keep the set bonus but i might be mistaken. Also at least in my opinion any "ultimate" set of gear shouldnt include any profession bound pieces because frankly not every lock would have that profession, and therefore its not universally all "best in slot". Given that i dont think the sunfire robe should be in any of the "best" gear sets but moreso understood that if you have that profession, that is the better piece. If we all start assuming most locks are going to have tailoring, we should also assume most might have jewelcrafting, or enchanting.

 

Arelenda

In response to your question: "Never use Soul Fire unless you need the burst dps, like say, for a scout in SWP".

If you actually were a fire lock, simply casting a Soul Fire and seeing how little damage it does would have answered your question right away.

That's not why I'm posting, though. I set out to prove you wrong, but I got some odd discrepancies when launching 20 Soul fires to get averages.

I went to SMV and tailored my gear to have 1001 spell power (no fel armor, no trinkets used). I'm 38/2/21 specced, not a single talent into fire spells. All Soul Fires cast on wildlife, so I don't think I could've gotten any partial resists.


Here's my problem: the outer limits are way off. In fact, if you apply the formula (1003to1257)+1001*x for damage, and solve for x, there's no possible match that could have given me these values.

Either I screwed up, or I'm missing something. The only thing (barring typo's) that I can think of is that those fiery lizards are fire resistant, and I missed a partial resist on the 2131 result.

Any ideas?

Update: as has been pointed out to me, the crit meta gem skewed my data. I'm pasting my raw data again. I have Ruin and the crit meta, so crits are 209%.

2270
2358
2398
2204
2402
2333
2389
4636
4767
2343
2355
2131
2162
4842
4640
2209
4512

Giving me a nice average of 115% spellpower contribution, but it still doesn't account for the minimum being so low.

 

oddvay

Did you switch your head item? Otherwise you should calculate crits with Chaotic Skyfire in mind.

edit : I'm aware this has no impact on the low value.

 

Arelenda

Damn it. My data was skewed because of this. Thanks, I knew I had to be missing something.

Fixed the original post with that in mind.

 

queso12

Talking mainly about people who got the Felmyst staff already, and are trying to work the best gear around it instead of taking a new sunwell weapon from KJ when some people in guild may still be using t6 weapons.

Ok.

[Dark Conjuror's Collar]
[Amulet of Unfettered Magics]
[Amice of the Convoker]
[Tattered Cape of Antonidas]
[Sunfire Robe] or [Fel Conquerer Raiments]
[Bracers of the Malefic]
[Grand Magister's Staff of Torrents]
[Wand of the Demonsoul]
[Gloves of the Malefic]
[Belt of the Malefic]
[Leggings of Calamity]
[Boots of the Malefic]
[Loop of Forged Power]
[Ring of Omnipotence]
[The Skull of Gul'dan]
[Shifting Naaru Sliver]

If I added right it comes out to 182 hit, nice even 202 with two +10 gems, or switch back in [Ring of Captured Storms] or [Mana Attuned Band] for 201-200.

 

Latas

Looks pretty good to me, and like always for yellow sockets gem hit gems till capped then use reckless pyrestones, red sockets use runed crimson spinels, and for the 2 blue you need use glowing shadowsong amethysts.